Repeal Liberate Christmas

[The Aztec Allience]

Alrighty here's my new SC proposal. Please point out any illegal things or spelling errors. Thanks.

Repeal Liberate Christmas

SEEING that the former WA delegate is out of the region
GLAD that Christmas is free from raiders
SAD that the current resolution blocks the new delegate from password protecting the region leaving it vulnerable to another attack
HOPING to allow the natives of Christmas to manage their own region without having defenders do it for them
Herby repeals Liberate Christmas

[Topid]

Have you heard from a native saying they would want this repealed? Unless I hear a native who supports there being a password placed on the region I am strongly opposed to this. It would only mean if Christmas is raided a day after it is passed we could easily have to pass another Liberation.

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

Have you heard from a native saying they would want this repealed? Unless I hear a native who supports there being a password placed on the region I am strongly opposed to this. It would only mean if Christmas is raided a day after it is passed we could easily have to pass another Liberation.

Raiders can raid even if it is liberated. I am The Aztec Allience, this is my forum nation.

[Topid]

Have you heard from a native saying they would want this repealed? Unless I hear a native who supports there being a password placed on the region I am strongly opposed to this. It would only mean if Christmas is raided a day after it is passed we could easily have to pass another Liberation.

Raiders can raid even if it is liberated. I am The Aztec Allience, this is my forum nation.

That is completely irrelevant? If we leave the resolution unrepealed it prevents having to pass one again. If we repeal the resolution we may very well have to pass one in the future, wasting time and effort. Unless a native wants the resolution repealed, there is no reason to do it.

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

Raiders can raid even if it is liberated. I am The Aztec Allience, this is my forum nation.

That is completely irrelevant? If we leave the resolution unrepealed it prevents having to pass one again. If we repeal the resolution we may very well have to pass one in the future, wasting time and effort. Unless a native wants the resolution repealed, there is no reason to do it.

Without being allowed to password protect the region that means raiders can just waltz right into the region and raid it.

[Topid]

That is completely irrelevant? If we leave the resolution unrepealed it prevents having to pass one again. If we repeal the resolution we may very well have to pass one in the future, wasting time and effort. Unless a native wants the resolution repealed, there is no reason to do it.

Without being allowed to password protect the region that means raiders can just waltz right into the region and raid it.

Yes, but choosing to use a password would mean the region dies. The only way to prevent a raid with a password is to put it in place and never give it to anyone ever. That means there will never be a population increase, it can only decrease, and eventually the region will die.

Again, unless a native wants to put a password on the region, a very bad idea IMO, then there's no reason to repeal the resolution.

[Punk Reloaded]

Without being allowed to password protect the region that means raiders can just waltz right into the region and raid it.

Yes, but choosing to use a password would mean the region dies. The only way to prevent a raid with a password is to put it in place and never give it to anyone ever. That means there will never be a population increase, it can only decrease, and eventually the region will die.

Again, unless a native wants to put a password on the region, a very bad idea IMO, then there's no reason to repeal the resolution.

Did the natives ever suggest they wanted to increase the population? Serious question.

[Eist]

I would support a repeal of the liberation resolution, but it would have to come from a native that had shown a commitment to establish the region. Raiders came pretty close to refounding the region for themselves, and, unfortunately, repealing this now would just open this up again. The liberation resolution is not ideal -- an active and committed founder would be best -- but it is the best we have currently got.

AGAINST.

[Cormac Stark]

Perhaps surprisingly, and speaking only for myself and not on behalf of the government of Asgard, I'm opposed to repealing the liberation resolution at this time. The will of the interregional community as expressed in the debate over Liberate Christmas was to give the natives of Christmas an opportunity to determine the future of their region. Asgard withdrew to give the natives that opportunity. Repealing the liberation resolution now would only make Christmas vulnerable to refounding by a different region or organization, perhaps one with less noble intentions.

I'm firmly convinced that the so-called "natives" of Christmas are puppets with no interest in improving the region's future. A majority of the interregional community, however, wasn't convinced of that. Let's leave the liberation resolution in place for a while, if for no other reason than to find out who was right.

[Topid]

Yes, but choosing to use a password would mean the region dies. The only way to prevent a raid with a password is to put it in place and never give it to anyone ever. That means there will never be a population increase, it can only decrease, and eventually the region will die.

Again, unless a native wants to put a password on the region, a very bad idea IMO, then there's no reason to repeal the resolution.

Did the natives ever suggest they wanted to increase the population? Serious question.

I'm not talking about increase their population as in increase their total nations.
I'm not even talking about keeping total nations even. But there needs to be a
very slight inflow of nations to offset CTEs or the region will die. The password cannot last forever or the region is dead. There are countless regions with 1-2 nations with a password and no delegate. All of those nations have ceased to exist already, it is an eventuality.

Let's leave the liberation resolution in place for a while, if for no other reason than to find out who was right.

Who was right? Huh? I don't think anyone disagrees Christmas is going to remain an inactive and silent region.

[Ambroscus Koth]

Who was right? Huh? I don't think anyone disagrees Christmas is going to remain an inactive and silent region.

From the way people supported Liberate Christmas, you'd think they actually believed there were real natives.

[Topid]

Who was right? Huh? I don't think anyone disagrees Christmas is going to remain an inactive and silent region.

From the way people supported Liberate Christmas, you'd think they actually believed there were real natives.

That in no way means they want an 'active' region by any means. I know some very active players in this game who have absolutely no idea what region they reside in. And even if they are an extremely inactive player, they have every right to their region, which no one else has any right to.

[10 Percent]

I would agree with most of the nations posting so far and say it is too soon and unless a Native is actively part of a repeal process it should remain in place.

[Kleinekatzen]

From my understand, the region gets raided every year on Christmas Eve/ day & people there liked it that way. Therefore, locking the region went against tradition. By keeping it (the region of Christmas) liberated it prevents nations from killing the region by locking it up with a password.

Based on these facts I will not support a Repeal of the liberation while I am Delecat (RP thing, not a mispell) of my region.

[Keronika]

Against. Leave Christmas open.

Perhaps surprisingly, and speaking only for myself and not on behalf of the government of Asgard, I'm opposed to repealing the liberation resolution at this time. The will of the interregional community as expressed in the debate over Liberate Christmas was to give the natives of Christmas an opportunity to determine the future of their region. Asgard withdrew to give the natives that opportunity. Repealing the liberation resolution now would only make Christmas vulnerable to refounding by a different region or organization, perhaps one with less noble intentions.

I'm firmly convinced that the so-called "natives" of Christmas are puppets with no interest in improving the region's future. A majority of the interregional community, however, wasn't convinced of that. Let's leave the liberation resolution in place for a while, if for no other reason than to find out who was right.

Mr. Stark, if your intention really was to improve the future of Christmas, you can still do that. Nothing is stopping you.

[Ambroscus Koth]

Mr. Stark, if your intention really was to improve the future of Christmas, you can still do that. Nothing is stopping you.

The fact that there's no founder leaves the region open to invasion by people that are not us.

I feel like a broken record here.

[Everbeek]

Mr. Stark, if your intention really was to improve the future of Christmas, you can still do that. Nothing is stopping you.

The fact that there's no founder leaves the region open to invasion by people that are not us.

I feel like a broken record here.

It also leaves those people that are not you less able to refound the region, ultimately meaning that while there is still the possibility for raids, they will tend to be less destructive in nature than what your region tried to do.

[Ambroscus Koth]

The fact that there's no founder leaves the region open to invasion by people that are not us.

I feel like a broken record here.

It also leaves those people that are not you less able to refound the region, ultimately meaning that while there is still the possibility for raids, they will tend to be less destructive in nature than what your region tried to do.

Pardon my French here, but you're talking out your rear end. We had a lot of cultural plans for Christmas that were nowhere near destructive in nature, I refuse to hear that argument not one more time.

And it's not as easy to keep control of a founderless region as you make it out to be. Raider regions can't camp out their entire army in one region for long periods of time.

[Everbeek]

It also leaves those people that are not you less able to refound the region, ultimately meaning that while there is still the possibility for raids, they will tend to be less destructive in nature than what your region tried to do.

Pardon my French here, but you're talking out your rear end. We had a lot of cultural plans for Christmas that were nowhere near destructive in nature, I refuse to hear that argument not one more time.

And it's not as easy to keep control of a founderless region as you make it out to be. Raider regions can't camp out their entire army in one region for long periods of time.

1. Refounding a region against the natives' wishes is region destruction, no matter what your plans are with the successor region of the same name.
2. That is my point. It will be even harder when the option to password the region once you control it is gone.

[Eist]

It also leaves those people that are not you less able to refound the region, ultimately meaning that while there is still the possibility for raids, they will tend to be less destructive in nature than what your region tried to do.

Pardon my French here, but you're talking out your rear end. We had a lot of cultural plans for Christmas that were nowhere near destructive in nature, I refuse to hear that argument not one more time.

And it's not as easy to keep control of a founderless region as you make it out to be. Raider regions can't camp out their entire army in one region for long periods of time.

What Everbeek says above, and raiders (like you) do not have a very good track-record at managing regions you hostilely occupy. If you are going to invade, you have to accept the negative implications that come with this.

You shouldn't password and attempt to refound a region you have no right to, and cry when people don't like the situation.

[Unibot II]

From the way people supported Liberate Christmas, you'd think they actually believed there were real natives.

That in no way means they want an 'active' region by any means.

This. Many natives want their region to be quiet and tranquil. Imperialists like Asgard should have no say otherwise.

[Ambroscus Koth]

What Everbeek says above, and raiders (like you) do not have a very good track-record at managing regions you hostilely occupy. If you are going to invade, you have to accept the negative implications that come with this.

You shouldn't password and attempt to refound a region you have no right to, and cry when people don't like the situation.

Yeah, totally crying right now.

Defenders like you (since you love generalizing so much) will always find excuses to lambaste raiders no matter how noble our intentions are. But don't you come barging in with your little moralistic ruse and start telling me I "shouldn't" do things and resort to petty smearing. That's just immature.

[Tim-Opolis]

I'm surprisingly opposed to the Repeal. Liberate Christmas is one of the only Liberation Proposals I have ever voted FOR on.

If the Liberation is Repealed then the region will once again become open to being to being colonized by imperialist groups. Whether these groups would have good goals or not, I do enjoy the traditional Christmas raid that happens every year... And I find it much more amusing than anything that could come from a colonized or password-protected region.

So. AGAINST.

[The basement]

Perhaps I am missing something here, being new to raids and all, but if new nations are invited into Christmas, as it clearly says

"The WA Delegate does have administrative powers.
Nations do not require a password to enter.
The region's password is not displayed to residents."

- it seems to me there is only two options: 1) wait for native nations of Christmas to take action (which seems very unlikely going by what I've read of the region's inactivity) or 2) take action to restore Christmas by moving into the region or 'making a puppet' to help the region on its feet.

If alternative 2 is how raiding works, then I do not see why Christmas is open for new nations (who is checking whether the nation is a puppet or not?). Therefore I suggest someone (i.e. enough people to proclaim a WA Delegate) move a nation to Christmas and render this whole discussion obselete.

Or am I missing something that is not mentioned in the Rules and clash with the Settings of the region of Christmas?

[Skyrim Diplomacy]

If alternative 2 is how raiding works, then I do not see why Christmas is open for new nations (who is checking whether the nation is a puppet or not?). Therefore I suggest someone (i.e. enough people to proclaim a WA Delegate) move a nation to Christmas and render this whole discussion obselete.

Or am I missing something that is not mentioned in the Rules and clash with the Settings of the region of Christmas?

That happened already. With Asgard (I suggest you get comfy, there's a lot of ideology/absolutely idiotic debating going on in that thread). And the UDL/Mahaj got their panties in a bunch about an inactive raider dump. Aaaaand for some reason we bumped a two-week old dead thread to discover that.