[PASSED] Liberate Realm of the Whispering Winds

[Quebecshire]

Nah, mate. TWPAF has a no-griefing policy, last I checked.

This is very much news to me, as my understanding of TWP's policy is that they proudly do not restrict themselves from such and are happy to allow it during operations if those who invited them wish to. Do you have any proof of this whatsoever?

[Varanius]

Nah, mate. TWPAF has a no-griefing policy, last I checked.

This is not, and to my knowledge has never been, correct.

[Partnership for Sovereignty]

The Partnership for Sovereignty recommends a vote FOR "Liberate Realm of the Whispering Winds”: https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1746635

Realm of the Whispering Winds is a region with vibrant history and a native community that calls the region home. Due to its founderless state; however, the region is at risk from forces that wish to destroy it. Read More...

[Almonaster Nuevo]

Is there any native support for this?

[Honeydewistania]

Is there any native support for this?

Yes.

[Tinhampton]

(Image)

The Partnership for Sovereignty recommends a vote FOR "Liberate Realm of the Whispering Winds”: https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1746635

Realm of the Whispering Winds is a region with vibrant history and a native community that calls the region home. Due to its founderless state; however, the region is at risk from forces that wish to destroy it. Read More...

Claiming that RotWW would have been destroyed had this Liberation undergone forum drafting is a preposterous claim when there are three natives with 10,000+ influence.

[Vavlar]

8/7/2022, 1:03:37 AM EDT: AS-16 Kickback removed the tag "Conservative" from Realm of the Whispering Winds.
8/7/2022, 1:04:11 AM EDT: AS-16 Kickback removed the tag "Imperialist" from Realm of the Whispering Winds.
8/7/2022, 1:04:52 AM EDT: AS-16 Kickback removed the tag "Monarchist" from Realm of the Whispering Winds.
8/7/2022, 1:05:21 AM EDT: AS-16 Kickback removed the tag "Religious" from Realm of the Whispering Winds.
Now now now Quebecshire, do you not think that TCB would not use these as a reason to invade a region?

[Almonaster Nuevo]

Is there any native support for this?

Yes.

Thank you. I think that is important.

[A Bloodred Moon]

(Image)

The Partnership for Sovereignty recommends a vote FOR "Liberate Realm of the Whispering Winds”: https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1746635

Realm of the Whispering Winds is a region with vibrant history and a native community that calls the region home. Due to its founderless state; however, the region is at risk from forces that wish to destroy it. Read More...

This is, of course, a guarenteed pass. So that makes it all the more amusing that the Partnership for Sovereignty, even if they have no clear reason to do so, continues to propagate blatant falsehoods which can be dismissed with but a brief look at the facts.

With raider forces unable to prevent nations from moving in, liberators will be able to enter and save the region from destruction.

There is no password, there never was a password. Liberators did move in, and always were and are able to do so, before the entirety of defending threw in the towel because they thought it was too much effort to sustain a siege, and the liberation will not lift the occupation - we will, when we feel like it is time to move on. We’ll purge the region of natives until we decide we’ve done enough, and you can be left to move in after we leave and claim you won anything, rather than get defeated decisively before quitting the field.

It is pretty clear that you know this is misleading at best, and that, in turn, makes one wonder why you’d lie about it in a dispatch meant to garner votes.

Whilst we at the PfS usually oppose resolutions that are not publically drafted, when a mere matter of hours can make the difference between a region’s freedom or its annihilation, usual Security Council norms must yield to exceptional circumstances.

See, you cite this supposed urgency again, but I have to ask what you actually mean. We clearly don’t have the influence to eject Jolx, we don’t have the votes to organise a stack against. If we wanted a repeat of the Mystical Council, we’d have started already. Quorum raiding is useless when quorum is such a low bar. So again, I’m curious: what could be so urgent that you couldn’t be arsed to draft on the forums, even though you were willing to wait two days into the occupation?

[Lord Dominator]

Jo, much as I agree with you on basically everything, you might want to check your wording there - the second chunk reads like an intention to remove all the natives, and the third explicitly says otherwise. At least perhaps a qualification like “as many as we feel like” I would think

Or perhaps that is the intent, and I misread…

[Numero Capitan]

Your arguments might land better if TCB weren’t publicly asking their members to “contribute to the destruction” of the region and to “hang tight until the region has been fully locked down”

Their promise of destruction to left wing fanatics is the only reason you’re holding the region still - so might want to question what you’re bragging about. These are the same people openly celebrating the assassination of western leaders

[Quebecshire]

Your arguments might land better if TCB weren’t publicly asking their members to “contribute to the destruction” of the region and to “hang tight until the region has been fully locked down”

Their promise of destruction to left wing fanatics is the only reason you’re holding the region still - so might want to question what you’re bragging about. These are the same people openly celebrating the assassination of western leaders

I think you’re being unfair NuCa. Using the raiding forces own rhetoric surrounding the raid to assess how they might feel about it? :/

Surely we can trust them to not pursue region destruction… ignore that the last time they tore a community to shreds for their own amusement was… six months ago. Oops.

[A Bloodred Moon]

Jo, much as I agree with you on basically everything, you might want to check your wording there - the second chunk reads like an intention to remove all the natives, and the third explicitly says otherwise. At least perhaps a qualification like “as many as we feel like” I would think

Or perhaps that is the intent, and I misread…

As many as we feel like would be the correct statement, apologies for the confusion.

Surely we can trust them to not pursue region destruction…

I don't believe trust was a part of the argument. I said we had taken no actions to secure a refound, which is true, and that if we had aimed for a refound we would have taken such measures, which is also true. Whether you pass a liberation or not is really of no consequence for us, beyond granting you an attempt to claim a small amount of success after you dropped your siege attempt after a mere two days, and granting us a fancy memorial to the occasion.

[WayNeacTia]

(Image)

The Partnership for Sovereignty recommends a vote FOR "Liberate Realm of the Whispering Winds”: https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1746635

Realm of the Whispering Winds is a region with vibrant history and a native community that calls the region home. Due to its founderless state; however, the region is at risk from forces that wish to destroy it. Read More...

Claiming that RotWW would have been destroyed had this Liberation undergone forum drafting is a preposterous claim when there are three natives with 10,000+ influence.

But then it wouldn’t have sounded so incredibly dire and urgent. Defenders losing? Heaven forbid….

[Quebecshire]

I don't believe trust was a part of the argument. I said we had taken no actions to secure a refound, which is true, and that if we had aimed for a refound we would have taken such measures, which is also true. Whether you pass a liberation or not is really of no consequence for us, beyond granting you an attempt to claim a small amount of success after you dropped your siege attempt after a mere two days, and granting us a fancy memorial to the occasion.

In TMC your filibustering nonsense didn’t begin until well into the operation, after initial sieges and once the native had already been drafting the liberation proposal. There’s no reason to believe similar behavior wouldn’t have been undertaken if things had been more delayed for this region. Characterize it as an early fold all you like, but more accurately it’s learning and adapting after a previous setback.

I do wonder what your intentions with the region would’ve been if we weren’t swift with this, since at least one occupying military seems to think they’re occupying with the goal of locking the region.

Realistically, most liberations don’t need to go through a drafting process in public. For some they certainly can, and that’s fine, but most are urgent and don’t reasonably require it. GK and I both have SC experience and other defender officers also reviewed it and provided helpful suggestions. It’s imperfect, but it’s certainly suitable enough, it’s what the natives want, and there’s no reason to believe you wouldn’t have taken advantage of the situation if we had delayed or signaled intent publicly ahead of time, regardless of what you say now.

[A Bloodred Moon]

In TMC your filibustering nonsense didn’t begin until well into the operation, after initial sieges and once the native had already been drafting the liberation proposal.

It was a new tactic at the time, and defenders (I'd assume) weren't expecting it at the time. EmbassyRegionia proved pretty clearly that defenders know the tactic. There would be no sense in waiting.

There’s no reason to believe similar behavior wouldn’t have been undertaken if things had been more delayed for this region.

Except again, had we wanted to do so we would have done it in advance. There is no reason for us to assume you would wait two days rather than submitting a liberation within the hour, as you did in EmbassyRegionia. You can say you have "no reason to believe" me, but you can pretty easily come to the same conclusion.

Characterize it as an early fold all you like, but more accurately it’s learning and adapting after a previous setback.

So your learning and adapting involves dropping a siege after a mere four updates? If that is what you take as a lesson from previous failures, I dread to think how brief the next siege will be.

I do wonder what your intentions with the region would’ve been if we weren’t swift with this,

I don't think you were all that swift, giving us two days to prepare countermeasures had we wanted to, so it's a little bizarre to claim that you were. EmbassyRegionia, that was swift. But it's admittedly better than what you attempted during The Mystical Council - letting a Warden submit a repeal before a liberation was quite the puzzling move. I suppose you could call it improvement, if one were generous.

To answer your question, however, pretty much the same as it is now: banning defenders, banning natives, and waiting for a shiny badge to bring this to the attention of the world.

Realistically, most liberations don’t need to go through a drafting process in public.

Says who?

For some they certainly can, and that’s fine, but most are urgent and don’t reasonably require it.

You still haven't explained what was so urgent.

[The Kosaki City Authority]

While we Kosakinese believe that independence of regions from foreign occupiers is a key to resolving territorial disputes between great powers my main question is what will happen after the liberation, who will control the liberated region we don't want it to end up like afghanistan where we spent god knows what for project that failed due to mismanagement so i would like to hear sound proposals for the future of this region.

[Quebecshire]

While we Kosakinese believe that independence of regions from foreign occupiers is a key to resolving territorial disputes between great powers my main question is what will happen after the liberation, who will control the liberated region we don't want it to end up like afghanistan where we spent god knows what for project that failed due to mismanagement so i would like to hear sound proposals for the future of this region.

Once the raiders are removed the region will be returned to the control of its natives.

[WayNeacTia]

Realistically, most liberations don’t need to go through a drafting process in public. For some they certainly can, and that’s fine, but most are urgent and don’t reasonably require it. GK and I both have SC experience and other defender officers also reviewed it and provided helpful suggestions. It’s imperfect, but it’s certainly suitable enough, it’s what the natives want, and there’s no reason to believe you wouldn’t have taken advantage of the situation if we had delayed or signaled intent publicly ahead of time, regardless of what you say now.

The bullshit is becoming a little overpowering here Q. Has Jo given you any reason to suspect him of lying that you can prove? If so, I sure as hell haven't seen any. You won the liberation, but you still can't liberate the region, so now we start making shit up? Sometimes things can't be won. Oh, I know you after we leave, and you guys go in and detag the region, you will claim some major victory and there will be a report with all of the standard gloating and such. Until then perhaps maybe you should push back from the table and call it, huh? Continue along this current path, and I suspect you will find your supporters will start to waver, unless you go on yet another witch hunt to try and deflect all of this, Senator....

[Team Leo]

Realistically, most liberations don’t need to go through a drafting process in public. For some they certainly can, and that’s fine, but most are urgent and don’t reasonably require it. GK and I both have SC experience and other defender officers also reviewed it and provided helpful suggestions. It’s imperfect, but it’s certainly suitable enough, it’s what the natives want, and there’s no reason to believe you wouldn’t have taken advantage of the situation if we had delayed or signaled intent publicly ahead of time, regardless of what you say now.

The bullshit is becoming a little overpowering here Q. Has Jo given you any reason to suspect him of lying that you can prove? If so, I sure as hell haven't seen any. You won the liberation, but you still can't liberate the region, so now we start making shit up? Sometimes things can't be won. Oh, I know you after we leave, and you guys go in and detag the region, you will claim some major victory and there will be a report with all of the standard gloating and such. Until then perhaps maybe you should push back from the table and call it, huh? Continue along this current path, and I suspect you will find your supporters will start to waver, unless you go on yet another witch hunt to try and deflect all of this, Senator....

Amen Wayne.

[The Pechenegs]

No need for some useless dead husk of a region. Against on my WA account.

[Quebecshire]

Thank you to everyone who has supported this, hopefully the Realms will be free of griefer colonialism soon <3

[WayNeacTia]

Thank you to everyone who has supported this, hopefully the Realms will be free of griefer colonialism soon <3

Yep.... That badge on the region is going to terrify us so much, we turn tail and run......

[Tinhampton]

FUN FACTS:
1. A Liberation does not automatically remove all invading forces from a region.
2. Invader delegate Empty Promises has 170 endorsements. Jolx, the native delegate, has 97.

[WayNeacTia]

FUN FACTS:
1. A Liberation does not automatically remove all invading forces from a region.

And it was such a perfectly executed plan, except for the minor detail of game mechanics.....