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[AT VOTE] Commend Libertanny

A chamber dedicated to the dissemination of inter-regional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary.

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Varanius
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Varanius » Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:09 pm

This’ll probably go about as well as your other proposal.
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Lerasi
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Lerasi » Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:14 pm

I'm going to be implementing the grammatical changes soon, so now might be a better time than any to post something that you haven't said before, is relevant to the actual proposal, or is helpful in any way.

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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:53 am

While this is a well written and researched draft, there is very little here that seems Commendable. Vara has done a fairly extensive critique of it which, for the most part, I agree with.

If this does get to the vote as is, then I will be recommending an “Against” vote to TWP’s Delegate.
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Aivintis
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Postby Aivintis » Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:28 pm

Okay I took quite a break from this, but I have updated the OP with some grammatical corrections as suggested by those Thousand Branches over there. Feel free to suggest more changes, I'm not quite sure when to actually submit this, but I think it'll be a little while still.
Last edited by Aivintis on Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Aivintis
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Postby Aivintis » Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:29 am

If there’s no real comments by Friday, I’ll talk with Hulldom about the possibility of submitting this.
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Varanius
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Varanius » Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:38 am

The displayed ability to completely ignore criticism is on a level which rivals Commend LadyRebels. It’s unfortunate the both of you have decided to waste so much time on what is ultimately a doomed proposal. Good luck with this though, I am obligated to at least slightly encourage joke proposals when I see them.
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Andusre
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Andusre » Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:11 am

I respect Giovanniland's participation both in the Security Council and in this thread because though I'm sure he does and always will oppose this proposal in principle, he at the bare minimum had the decency to turn up & engage in good faith offering legitimate & sincere critiques - even when the proposal aims to commend someone whose region is in an open state of hostility to his own. Some of us should really be more like Giovanniland.
Last edited by Andusre on Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Varanius
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Varanius » Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:15 am

Andusre wrote:I respect Giovanniland's participation both in the Security Council and in this thread because though I'm sure he does and always will oppose this proposal in principle, he at the bare minimum had the decency to turn up & engage in good faith offering legitimate & sincere critiques - even when the proposal aims to commend someone whose region is in an open state of hostility to his own. Some of us should really be more like Giovanniland.
Some us should really actually say what we’d like instead of hiding between passive aggressive remarks :roll:. But really, why would I do that? It’s a bad proposal which will never pass, and unlike the authors I enjoy my time. Why on earth would I bore myself to death trying to offer honest critiques to a shitty proposal going nowhere, when it’s much more fun to do…well this.
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Andusre
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Postby Andusre » Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:26 am

Varanius wrote:unlike the authors I enjoy my time.

sips water
Mhm...

Varanius wrote:Why on earth would I bore myself to death trying to offer honest critiques to a shitty proposal going nowhere, when it’s much more fun to do…well this.

There is a common adage that I was taught growing up that says if you have nothing positive or helpful to say, say nothing at all. Maybe they don't teach that to kids anymore, how sad.
Last edited by Andusre on Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Varanius
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Postby Varanius » Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:37 am

Andusre wrote:
Varanius wrote:unlike the authors I enjoy my time.

sips water
Mhm...

Varanius wrote:Why on earth would I bore myself to death trying to offer honest critiques to a shitty proposal going nowhere, when it’s much more fun to do…well this.

There is a common adage that I was taught growing up that says if you have nothing positive or helpful to say, say nothing at all. Maybe they don't teach that to kids anymore, how sad.
Truly the saddest. Although, seeing how helpful you’ve been on this thread, I patiently await your departure!
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Andusre
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Postby Andusre » Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:39 am

Varanius wrote:
Andusre wrote:sips water
Mhm...


There is a common adage that I was taught growing up that says if you have nothing positive or helpful to say, say nothing at all. Maybe they don't teach that to kids anymore, how sad.
Truly the saddest. Although, seeing how helpful you’ve been on this thread, I patiently await your departure!

This is not the Gotcha snark you think it is, lol.

But anyway, you're at least close to being correct that this argument has run its course. Don't particularly want to threadjack.

Best of luck with the proposal, Aiv.
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Comfed
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Postby Comfed » Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:47 am

I think trying to commend Lib is a lost cause, because his achievements don’t really go above and beyond those of a standard GCR delegate term.
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Aivintis
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Postby Aivintis » Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:10 am

Varanius wrote:The displayed ability to completely ignore criticism is on a level which rivals Commend LadyRebels. It’s unfortunate the both of you have decided to waste so much time on what is ultimately a doomed proposal. Good luck with this though, I am obligated to at least slightly encourage joke proposals when I see them.

Insulting the author and the nominee is not criticism, and it’s not worth anyone’s time, even yours. Giovanniland and Thousand Branches offered only criticism. You offered some criticism sprinkled in with snarky insults to FNR, Thaecia, TEP, Libertanny, Paradoxical, and me, and treated the entire draft as some sort of competition with TWP and Bran Astor. It’s not. Additionally, coming by after a short period to say “This will end up about as well as your last proposal” is not even veiled aggression, it’s outright taunting. I was content to let all of it slide, but don’t use my decision to ignore an attempt to cause drama as an ignorance of legitimate criticism. I’m not saying anything else on any of this, so just refer back to this.
Last edited by Aivintis on Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Thousand Branches
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Postby Thousand Branches » Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:11 am

I’ll be honest, I think I’m also in the group of “not really sure if they’re commendable”. When I read through the proposal to do my edits, I can’t say anything really jumped out to me as something distinctly commendable. I’ve done things comparable in some regions I’ve been in, albeit not serving as delegate, but I am certainly not commendable in any way. The proposal lacked… how to say it… oomph? It didn’t quite have that “wow, that’s super impressive” feel that I think a proposal should have. Nothing against TEP or Lib but I’m just not sure it’s enough.
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Aivintis
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Postby Aivintis » Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:13 am

Comfed wrote:I think trying to commend Lib is a lost cause, because his achievements don’t really go above and beyond those of a standard GCR delegate term.

That’s the only legitimate criticism that I cannot offer any edit in response to, simply because I fundamentally disagree with it, and it’s too broad an issue to address within the proposal.
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Aivintis
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Postby Aivintis » Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:18 am

Thousand Branches wrote:I’ll be honest, I think I’m also in the group of “not really sure if they’re commendable”. When I read through the proposal to do my edits, I can’t say anything really jumped out to me as something distinctly commendable. I’ve done things comparable in some regions I’ve been in, albeit not serving as delegate, but I am certainly not commendable in any way. The proposal lacked… how to say it… oomph? It didn’t quite have that “wow, that’s super impressive” feel that I think a proposal should have. Nothing against TEP or Lib but I’m just not sure it’s enough.

It’s quite possible that this is just a failure of my part as an SC Author. I might be able to argue his case, but I struggle to do so within the confines of the SC structure, and that makes the proposal somewhat weak.

The reason I’m okay with leaving it in…less than great quality if this is the case is because it does mention pretty much every individual commendable action, I believe Serge deserves a commendation, and there have been less comprehensive/convincing commendations that get the job done, so I don’t feel too bad if it turns out that I didn’t do the best job of commending him.
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Varanius
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Varanius » Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:22 am

At least you admit the proposal is weak. Honesty is the best policy after all.
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Aivintis
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Postby Aivintis » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:27 pm

One last bump for helpful, relevant comments. I'll talk to Hulldom about putting this on last call so that more folks look at it.
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Apatosaurus
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Apatosaurus » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:47 pm

Aivintis wrote:One last bump for helpful, relevant comments. I'll talk to Hulldom about putting this on last call so that more folks look at it.


Is this post "helpful, relevant comments"? I hope so :p

Anyway, I'm not 100% convinced the nominee is commendable, but this draft is very good so... right now I'm not really supportive or opposed :p

Aivintis wrote:the unrepresented Regional Message Board (RMB) community within the Ministry

Is it really necessary to define that acronym, which you only use once other than there through the whole proposal?

Aivintis wrote:repealing the EPNS Act (which heavily restricted the operations of the EPNS) in the Magisterium so that the EPNS could function with greater flexibility and effectiveness,

Repealing some law I've never heard of until now is not commendable.

Aivintis wrote:Recognizing Libertanny’s restructuring of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs following the coup, creating a new leadership council consisting of senior diplomats and delegating leadership responsibilities to it, helping democratize the decision-making process, ease the burden of leadership, and allow for such greater efficiency that it remains in use to this day,

Is this really commendable?

Aivintis wrote:Increasing diverse representation through the creation of Ambassador positions for the RMB and the Cards Association, TEAPOT, connecting TEP’s government to more isolated parts of the region which might not otherwise be heard, as a result, fostering a greater sense of community in TEP,

This part seems very... clunky. Here is a proposed rewrite:
The creation of Ambassador positions for various parts of TEP's government, such as the Regional Message Board Association and the Cards Association TEAPOT; this helped connect TEP’s government to more isolated parts of the region and foster a greater sense of community in TEP,

Aivintis wrote:Directing the creation REWARD without aid, a World Assembly Development Program which strengthens regional security by incentivizing the endorsement of regional security officers and encourages a more vibrant endorsement culture within the region,

This section needs lots of work. Firstly, I don't see how "without aid" makes it more Commendable. Get rid of that. Secondly, change "strengthens regional security" to "has helped strengthen regional security" and change "and encourages a more..." to "and encouraged a more.."

Aivintis wrote:Saluting Libertanny’s contributions to diplomacy during their delegacy, mainly in the negotiation of many important treaties, which strengthened the diplomatic relationships of TEP and fostered a spirit of interregional goodwill, defense, and cooperation; notably including those with The Free Nations Region and Thaecia, both of which have become some of TEP’s closest allies,

This is an extremely verbose version of what could just be summarised as "Libertanny built treaties with these regions that have become some of TEP's closest allies". Here is a possible rewrite:
Saluting Libertanny’s contributions to TEP's diplomacy during their delegacy, by building treaties with regions such as The Free Nations Region and Thaecia, both of which have become some of TEP’s closest allies,


Also, what happened to the clause about Commend Bach? :(

EDIT: Oh okay
Last edited by Apatosaurus on Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Kingdom Of The Three Isles
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Postby The Kingdom Of The Three Isles » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:49 pm

Vikanias wrote:Way better then the previous version, if this makes it to quorum I’ll be voting for!

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Aivintis
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Postby Aivintis » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:05 pm

Apatosaurus wrote:Is this post "helpful, relevant comments"? I hope so :p

Yup.

Is it really necessary to define that acronym, which you only use once other than there through the whole proposal?

Either that or waste characters later on, and I think this is chonky enough as is.

Repealing some law I've never heard of until now is not commendable.

I disagree. It was a terrible law that impeded on progress and its repeal was integral to the success of EPNS. Otherwise it would have remained dead for a long time, and even then any attempt to revive it would have needed to repeal the act to be as successful.

Is [Libertanny’s restructuring of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs following the coup] really commendable?

I see this not as regular old "custodial work" as it has been referred to, but rather as "reforms that further modernized and democratized the executive, made the MoFA less stressed (I should know, I was that MoFA), and made the ministry more efficient in a time where every aspect of the government needed a boost of efficiency." Viewing it from that perspective may influence your opinion on it.

[Creating] Ambassador positions for various parts of TEP's government, such as the Regional Message Board Association and the Cards Association TEAPOT; this helped connect TEP’s government to more isolated parts of the region and foster a greater sense of community in TEP,

Consider:

Creating Ambassador positions for various, underrepresented communities within TEP's government, such as the RMB and the Cards Association, TEAPOT, which helped connect TEP’s government to more isolated parts of the region and foster a greater sense of community in TEP,

[The REWARD] section needs lots of work. Firstly, I don't see how "without aid" makes it more Commendable. Get rid of that. Secondly, change "strengthens regional security" to "has helped strengthen regional security" and change "and encourages a more..." to "and encouraged a more.."

"without aid" indicates how the mad lad did it basically by himself. Doing something by one's self is more impressive than doing something with ten other people, especially with such a complex project. It may not be worded in the best of ways, but I see it as commendable.

Second part, will do.

Saluting Libertanny’s contributions to TEP's diplomacy during their delegacy, by building treaties with regions such as The Free Nations Region and Thaecia, both of which have become some of TEP’s closest allies,


Consider:

Saluting Libertanny’s contributions to TEP diplomacy during their delegacy, mainly by building treaties emphasizing goodwill, mutual defense, and cooperation, with regions such as The Free Nations Region and Thaecia, both of which have become some of TEP’s closest allies,

Also, what happened to the clause about Commend Bach? :(

I told you in discord, but for everyone else watching:

It was pointed out that the commendation of Bach wasn't notable or strong enough to warrant its inclusion as a clause in a commendation of the author, in a discussion that funnily enough prompted me to consider a full rewrite of the commendation as one of my future projects.
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Apatosaurus
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Postby Apatosaurus » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:20 pm

Varanius wrote:The displayed ability to completely ignore criticism is on a level which rivals Commend LadyRebels.

I would prefer not to be compared to as a weapon/snipe, thanks (as much as I disagree with your point that Aiv is ignoring criticism :p)

Aivintis wrote:Consider:

Creating Ambassador positions for various, underrepresented communities within TEP's government, such as the RMB and the Cards Association, TEAPOT, which helped connect TEP’s government to more isolated parts of the region and foster a greater sense of community in TEP,

I'd say replace "TEAPOT, which helped" with "TEAPOT; this helped".

Aivintis wrote:
Saluting Libertanny’s contributions to TEP's diplomacy during their delegacy, by building treaties with regions such as The Free Nations Region and Thaecia, both of which have become some of TEP’s closest allies,


Consider:

Saluting Libertanny’s contributions to TEP diplomacy during their delegacy, mainly by building treaties emphasizing goodwill, mutual defense, and cooperation, with regions such as The Free Nations Region and Thaecia, both of which have become some of TEP’s closest allies,

I think the "emphasizing goodwill, mutual defense, and cooperation" part is unnecessarily verbose and/or long, but it's better.
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Varanius
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Varanius » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:24 pm

Apatosaurus wrote:
Varanius wrote:The displayed ability to completely ignore criticism is on a level which rivals Commend LadyRebels.

I would prefer not to be compared to as a weapon/snipe, thanks (as much as I disagree with your point that Aiv is ignoring criticism :p)
Uhhh, I don’t care.
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Apatosaurus
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Postby Apatosaurus » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:49 pm

Varanius wrote:
Apatosaurus wrote:I would prefer not to be compared to as a weapon/snipe, thanks (as much as I disagree with your point that Aiv is ignoring criticism :p)
Uhhh, I don’t care.

That attitude is not helpful or productive.
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The difference between an invader and an imperialist is that...the imperialist will write several paragraphs about how the region's poll officer's cousin's friend's soccer coach once arranged his fridge magnets to spell out FRA and this is therefore a great leap forward in their war effort. - Altmoras
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Varanius
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Varanius » Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:43 am

Apatosaurus wrote:
Varanius wrote: Uhhh, I don’t care.

That attitude is not helpful or productive.
I don’t particularly feel like reposting, so just reread my message you quoted.
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