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[DEFEATED] Repeal SC#246 "Liberate Nazi Europa"

A chamber dedicated to the dissemination of inter-regional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary.

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Wallenburg
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Wallenburg » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:18 pm

To repeat my statements on the NSWA Discord, the target resolution was a terrible idea. It has always been foolish to award unraidable regions free WA advertising and badges. To repeal foolish or otherwise bad law is necessarily good. The only argument against repealing bad law is that the repeal is itself written poorly, which this repeal is not.
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Great Algerstonia
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Great Algerstonia » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:52 pm

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:The liberation should remain in place as an example to other problematic regions. The argument that if it’s not repealed now then there will be numerous other attempts giving publicity to such regions doesn’t hold water as far as I am concerned - slippery slope arguments never do.

I have recommended an “Against” vote to TWP’s Delegate.

If anything this repeal proves an accomplishment. This repeal shows that Nazi regions were stopped by the Moderation Team. This repeal shows an example and establishes the defeat of the Nazi regions and Nazism in general.
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Penguin Dictators
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Penguin Dictators » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:34 pm

Wayneactia wrote:I’ll vote for it if someone else repeals it. Am I voting against solely due to the author? You bet.

These are the types of posts I find problematic. You're willing to vote against this repeal, let the topic come up and be debated again (thus giving the attention concern more credence), and vote for that one just because you don't like the author of this one? What happens if the next one is by an author you don't like? Or the next 10 because they keep being failed for equally petty reasons?

Seriously grow up.

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Sylh Alanor
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Founded: May 10, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sylh Alanor » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:36 pm

Great Algerstonia wrote:This repeal shows that Nazi regions were stopped by the Moderation Team.

The implication that this fact wouldn't be understood without this repeal is extremely funny to me.
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RiderSyl
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Mother Knows Best State

Postby RiderSyl » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:13 pm

Sylh Alanor wrote:
Great Algerstonia wrote:This repeal shows that Nazi regions were stopped by the Moderation Team.

The implication that this fact wouldn't be understood without this repeal is extremely funny to me.


I don't get it either. Maybe it's just some kind of logic we Syls cannot fathom. :(
Last edited by RiderSyl on Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Penguin Dictators
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Penguin Dictators » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:30 pm

On the topic of this repeal in general, there's things I'm on the fence with, things I disagree with, and things I agree with.

As far as the kind of message it'll send, I don't entirely buy that it'll send any type of message to any of the former members of said destroyed region. In the end, fashes will be fashes, and a liberation or repeal of said liberation with a message isn't going to dissuade that kind of behavior.

Giving them unwanted attention is, however, definitely a warranted concern. While I do agree with the people against due to the fact that yes, this repeal would be putting a spotlight back on things...I'd be more concerned about the continued spotlight being put out there if this fails and we see another repeal and another round of debating, and possibly another repeal + debate if that one fails. In that sense, I'd rather see this done and over with especially since in the end, the resolution is well written.

What I disagree with mainly is the petty responses I've seen here. People saying they won't vote for because of the author and because they think it's a badge hunt which are, in my opinion, completely irrelevant to me in the grand scheme of things. In the end, the votes should be focused on the resolution itself which has merit, not the author who wrote it regardless of what people think the author's "intentions" are.

What matters is whether we want to potentially see this repeal continually repeated now that the possibility of it exists, or whether we want the whole topic to finally go away. Personally, as I said I'd rather just see it over and done with so that the spotlight can finally die.

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Eastern Elystadt
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Eastern Elystadt » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:45 pm

Since it doesn't exist anymore, what is the point of keeping the resolution if a nation doesn't exist? The resolution is useless unless Nazi Europa is revived again somehow.

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URA World Assembly Affairs
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby URA World Assembly Affairs » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:14 pm

The United Regions Alliance recommends voting for this resolution. https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1593423
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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:16 pm

Great Algerstonia wrote:
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:The liberation should remain in place as an example to other problematic regions. The argument that if it’s not repealed now then there will be numerous other attempts giving publicity to such regions doesn’t hold water as far as I am concerned - slippery slope arguments never do.

I have recommended an “Against” vote to TWP’s Delegate.

If anything this repeal proves an accomplishment. This repeal shows that Nazi regions were stopped by the Moderation Team. This repeal shows an example and establishes the defeat of the Nazi regions and Nazism in general.

What? Oh it’s you. Well that explains the nonsensical reply to my post.
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Cappedore
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Cappedore » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:14 am

The region doesn't exist anymore, so why should a resolution still be in effect? Not only that, but game rules even prevent the region from being created again now due to the 'Nazi' filter, so...
Last edited by Cappedore on Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Figu
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Founded: May 13, 2021
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Figu » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:18 am

If I were a member of the WA, I'd vote for this resolution, because "Liberate Nazi Europa" is superfluous. The region doesn't exist anymore. It cannot exist ever again. There is no good reason for the resolution to continue existing. The arguments against it are lacking. "Giving fascists attention" isn't a good argument. Do you really think most people are dumb enough to believe fascism is a good idea? I'm just saying, have a little more faith in humanity. People aren't that stupid, for the most part. The ONLY time I would ever even consider fascism is if the only alternative is communism, kind of like in the final years of Weimar Germany, actually. Still, I believe all sides should be heard, even the ones you don't like, and let people make up their own minds and do their own research. I believe in freedom. Isn't that the biggest reason for most to oppose fascism? Wanting to silence and suppress them is just being hypocritical. If it isn't, I'd like to know what is.

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Wallenburg
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Wallenburg » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:54 am

Figu wrote:The ONLY time I would ever even consider fascism is if the only alternative is communism, kind of like in the final years of Weimar Germany, actually.

That's a bit of a self-report.
In the meantime you are here, and it’s beautiful, and escaping isn’t always something bad.
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
Kiu Ghesik wrote:harris' interpretation of bidenism and subsequent establishment of a bidenist vanguard party to root out malarkey and revisionist elements in society was revisionist in and of itself and should never have been implemented.

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Figu
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Founded: May 13, 2021
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Figu » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:58 am

Wallenburg wrote:
Figu wrote:The ONLY time I would ever even consider fascism is if the only alternative is communism, kind of like in the final years of Weimar Germany, actually.

That's a bit of a self-report.

Why? Communism is worse than fascism, so if I had to pick between two garbage ideologies, I would pick the less garbage ideology. Don't get me wrong, I prefer democracy any day of the week, but if somebody put a gun to my head and told me to choose between fascism and communism, I'd pick fascism.
Last edited by Figu on Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Andusre
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Andusre » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:35 pm

Figu wrote:The ONLY time I would ever even consider fascism is if the only alternative is communism, kind of like in the final years of Weimar Germany, actually.

That WA Delegacy looking hella taggable brother
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Figu
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Founded: May 13, 2021
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Figu » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:40 pm

Andusre wrote:
Figu wrote:The ONLY time I would ever even consider fascism is if the only alternative is communism, kind of like in the final years of Weimar Germany, actually.

That WA Delegacy looking hella taggable brother

If you were to call me a fascist or a nazi, you would just be factually incorrect.

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Xeknos
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Xeknos » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:06 pm

"Let's repeal this because it doesn't matter,"

But if it doesn't matter, why repeal it?

AGAINST. Besides, I like having the flagpole of victory stuck in a dead fascist. No need to remove it just because he's dead.
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Wallenburg
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Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Wallenburg » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:45 pm

Xeknos wrote:"Let's repeal this because it doesn't matter,"

But if it doesn't matter, why repeal it?

AGAINST. Besides, I like having the flagpole of victory stuck in a dead fascist. No need to remove it just because he's dead.

How is the liberation a "flagpole of victory"? The region was never overthrown, the liberation failed to achieve anything except advertising Nazi Europa and making lemmings feel good about saying "Nazi bad".
Last edited by Wallenburg on Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In the meantime you are here, and it’s beautiful, and escaping isn’t always something bad.
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
Kiu Ghesik wrote:harris' interpretation of bidenism and subsequent establishment of a bidenist vanguard party to root out malarkey and revisionist elements in society was revisionist in and of itself and should never have been implemented.

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Holy Britannian Empire1
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Founded: Jun 11, 2021
Father Knows Best State

Postby Holy Britannian Empire1 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:07 pm

Giovanniland wrote:Since the region was mod-deleted and prevented from ever being refounded, there's no reason to repeal and give it any more attention. One can't claim the community uses the liberation as a badge of honor, since there's no community nor region to speak of anymore. All this will do is give fascists across NationStates - especially those previously residing in this region that may have joined other fascist ones since then - a platform to advertise their evil ideology, and nobody wants that.

I have to say I agree

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Salessll
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Founded: Jun 03, 2021
Father Knows Best State

Liberate Nazi Europa

Postby Salessll » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:15 pm

Tinhampton wrote:
GO AND VOTE
This proposal has been filed to the Security Council Repeals Board.
NOTE: This proposal reached quorum after attaining 53 approvals within a day of submission - although I've forgotten who or when :
P

Character count: 935
Word count: 146
Shortly after NE's deletion, Praeceps proposed a repeal of its Liberation which received some criticism for supposedly giving the region "attention" - even though there could not possibly be anybody there to crave it, given that it had just been mod-deleted - and was subsequently abandoned. (Note, however, the BELIEVING clause on this iteration.) I showed the proposal text you see below to Prae a few weeks ago and he actually didn't know if he'd support or oppose it.

This is on LAST CALL because I believe that there will be little useful feedback regarding the actual text of the proposal, although this may change. I am refraining from submitting this immediately solely so that the mods can carry out a legality check on the RECALLING clause - as is required of proposals citing rule violations.
(Image)
Repeal "Liberate Nazi Europa"
A resolution to repeal previously passed legislation.

How was it named Nazi Europa and still exists, I though you couldn't do names like that.
Category: Repeal
Resolution: SC#246
Proposed by: Tinhampton

Security Council Resolution #246 “Liberate Nazi Europa” shall be struck out and rendered null and void.

THE SECURITY COUNCIL:

RECOGNISING that the passage of this repeal will not do anything to change this august body's firm and long-standing stance against fascism, national socialism, and other ideologies that promote discrimination;

RECALLING that, while the author of SC#246 hoped that the target region would "be made vulnerable by this august body through" its Liberation, the far superior outcome of its being involuntarily dissolved and prevented from ever being refounded was accomplished by decree of the Secretariat in May 2021;

NOTING that, far from currently having "an executive Founder," the target region currently has no founder of any description (never mind any residents); and

BELIEVING that the target region neither poses such a great threat to the international community that it should remain Liberated, nor has the ability to meaningfully relish in the repeal of its Liberation:

HEREBY REPEALS SC#246.

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Tinhampton
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Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:22 pm

Salessll wrote:How was it named Nazi Europa and still exists, I though you couldn't do names like that.

In the olden days, "nazi" was not an automatically-blocked word. It is today :P
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Jarred Fogle
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Founded: Mar 04, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Jarred Fogle » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:58 pm

This is what I mean. Y'all a bias as towards political ideologies.







By the way I have done nothing wrong. I'm just stating the facts of the situation.
Last edited by Jarred Fogle on Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Great Algerstonia
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Founded: Mar 21, 2019
Father Knows Best State

Postby Great Algerstonia » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:20 pm

Xeknos wrote:"Let's repeal this because it doesn't matter,"

But if it doesn't matter, why repeal it?

AGAINST. Besides, I like having the flagpole of victory stuck in a dead fascist. No need to remove it just because he's dead.

That liberation expresses no victory, only a majority opinion.
Ultranationalist State governed by megacorporations and the military, who are also locked in a consistent power struggle with each other that neither side actually wants to end because the death of one means the death of the other. Flag is the same as the OTL black-yellow-white Tzarist tricolor, no political links between my flag and the Tzarist flag
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Great Algerstonia
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Postby Great Algerstonia » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:21 pm

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:
Great Algerstonia wrote:If anything this repeal proves an accomplishment. This repeal shows that Nazi regions were stopped by the Moderation Team. This repeal shows an example and establishes the defeat of the Nazi regions and Nazism in general.

What? Oh it’s you. Well that explains the nonsensical reply to my post.

Thanks broski <3
Ultranationalist State governed by megacorporations and the military, who are also locked in a consistent power struggle with each other that neither side actually wants to end because the death of one means the death of the other. Flag is the same as the OTL black-yellow-white Tzarist tricolor, no political links between my flag and the Tzarist flag
Pro: Consistent Life Ethic, Conservatism, Nationalism, Unrestricted Gun Ownership, Distributism, Required Voter ID, States Rights
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Kerchistania
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Founded: Apr 11, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kerchistania » Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:52 pm

I agree, let's repeal and tidy up the records. There are so much open SC resolutions. After all the region can not be used anymore to spill that hatered, so there is no need to have this resolution.

This is the same as your old mail in your e-mail. Everything is over. Why keep the email on unread?

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The North Polish Union
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby The North Polish Union » Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:00 am

Are we going to repeal both of Milograd's condemnations now that his nation has been deleted? It'd clean up clutter in the SC!
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