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[Defeated] Commend Northrop-Grumman

A chamber dedicated to the dissemination of inter-regional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary.

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Taylorania
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: Jan 11, 2021
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Taylorania » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:25 am

Samicana wrote:They have no political freedoms or environmental protections,

So no

Lol

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The Dominion of Mankind
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 24
Founded: Feb 20, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby The Dominion of Mankind » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:57 am

This is about their praiseworthy preservation of history, not their civil policy. And I'm sure they've done a lot more than all of you complainers. They have my vote!

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Pchelionia
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 6
Founded: May 25, 2020
Father Knows Best State

Vote AGAINST

Postby Pchelionia » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:26 am

Northrop-Grumman is a country of suffering, since people can be executed and corporally punished by the state. No such nation should ever be commended.

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France and colonys
Secretary
 
Posts: 28
Founded: May 26, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby France and colonys » Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:42 pm

No
Wait, Atomic reactor time?!

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Comfed
Diplomat
 
Posts: 588
Founded: Apr 09, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Comfed » Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:48 pm

France and colonys wrote:No

Great argument.
Mall:
Best part about being a mod was engaging in normal player behavior and getting accused of abuse
"You think this is abuse? I'll SHOW you abuse."
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:
Unibot III wrote:in a liberal justice system


In the liberal justice system, raiding-based offenses are considered especially heinous. In The South Pacific, the dedicated defenders who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Council on Regional Security. These are their proscriptions. DUN DUN.

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Bhang Bhang Duc
Minister
 
Posts: 2615
Founded: Dec 17, 2003
New York Times Democracy

Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:07 pm

Never really liked this proposal - always seemed to be an excuse to shoehorn as many possible items of low commend value into a proposal in order to compensate for not being able to find away around the old Rule 1 (new R3a).

Against and recommended an “Against” vote to my Delegate.
Last edited by Bhang Bhang Duc on Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Former Delegate and Guardian of The West Pacific. TWP's Former Minister for World Assembly Affairs

The West Pacific's Official Welshman, Astronomer and Old Fart

Pierconium wrote:I see Funk as an opportunistic manipulator that utilises the means available to him to reach his goals. In other words, a nation after my own heart.

RiderSyl wrote:If an enchantress made it so one raid could bring about world peace, Unibot would ask raiders to just sign a petition instead.

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Refuge Isle
Diplomat
 
Posts: 539
Founded: Dec 14, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Refuge Isle » Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:16 pm

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Never really liked this proposal - always seemed to be an excuse to shoehorn as many possible items of low commend value into a proposal in order to compensate for not being able to find away around the old Rule 1 (new R3a).


Indeed, as I've argued elsewhere, the content of the draft is very clearly intended to be a gotcha for mods by all but stating outright that the commendation is about the dark theme. Naturally, here we are talking about it on those grounds anyway. I understand that the author does not agree that the dark theme should be off limits for an argument component, but it's what the rules are, so pushing it as has been done here is simply rules lawyering. I would likely not have taken issue with a single random line about the nation's fascination with distributing sunglasses to nations' leaders, or some such. Instead, the proposal is styled entirely around forum threads, with dark-themed words scattered awkwardly at random throughout the proposal. The result of which is content that ends up being jarring and nonsensical.

I question the IFV's that I've seen posted recently by various regions and WA commentators. It makes no sense to profess the content is well written when it makes no literary sense and the difference between nations, nation's, and nations' is not understood.
Last edited by Refuge Isle on Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Luca Vytherov (29, F, herbivore)
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Admin assistant: Siv Ember
A List of History
Founder of Refugia
3x WA Author, Deputy WAA Minister of TEP
Posts not OOC are assumed to be made under duress

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Daarwyrth
Diplomat
 
Posts: 556
Founded: Jul 05, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Daarwyrth » Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:03 pm

I'll gladly support this Commendation! I always had a huge admiration for N-G because of the lists and content they maintain on the forums, so that alone is enough to have Daarwyrth vote "for".
Last edited by Daarwyrth on Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The United Monarchy of Daarwyrth

A unitary state of constituent duchies situated on the continent of Geldria, where the monarch is considered to be the nation's centre of gravity.

Our Leader: Queen Demi Maria I | Our Capital: Daarport | Government type: Unitary absolute monarchy | Technology level: Post-Modern Tech | Civilization index: 13.71


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Neymarland
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 19
Founded: Jan 12, 2021
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Neymarland » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:11 am

No matter how good the index is, my vote is Against
What's that, someone is within 5 feet from me? Dives REF, REF! RED CARD, RED CARD
NEYMARLAND Is a proud member of UEFA Champions League
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Pchelionia
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 6
Founded: May 25, 2020
Father Knows Best State

Vote against commending Northrop-Grumman

Postby Pchelionia » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:14 am

Northrop-Grumman is a country of suffering, since people can be executed and corporally punished by the state. No such nation should ever be commended.

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France and colonys
Secretary
 
Posts: 28
Founded: May 26, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby France and colonys » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:18 pm

If it is to be passed, I shall ask someone to repeal it because of this:
Sedgistan wrote:There's really two questions here:

1) Can you recognise N-G for developing the official Dark Theme?

and if not,

2) Can you recognise N-G for developing the original unofficial Dark Theme?

Question 1 is a simple no. N-G's work on the official Dark Theme is effectively that of a NationStates staff member. He might not have the badge / title / fancy colour of other staff members, but that's because there's no practical point in us setting up a role "Dark Theme Admin" given his work involves 1 thread and very occasional sending of updates to admin. His role is not something that's open to any player to do - it's a task solely and officially assigned to him.

Question 2 I appreciate is trickier as there's a different situation with Issues Editors (i.e. issues authored and added to the game before they join are okay to mention). I was at one point going to suggest Makdon draft a clause that only mentioned the original 2 months of the original Dark Theme add-on, to see what it would be like -- but decided against. The reality is that the unofficial Dark Theme add-on became the official NationStates Dark Theme. The development work done on the former was the development work for the latter. To Commend for creating the Dark Theme add-on is to Commend for creating the NationStates Dark Theme - they're inseparable. The IE ruling is different; issues authored and added to the game before a player joined the IE team are distinct from their later editing/authoring.

Sedgistan wrote:It's not - it's evidently about the dark theme. There's a difference between an occasional "dark" pun in clauses referring to other contributions and having an entire clause that is about dark themes.

Denethoria wrote:Northrop-Grumman has abused, in continuous and consistent fashion, their own citizens. For them to receive my vote, they will have to drastically increase their basic decency in a manner that I would consider to be just common sense.

Samicana wrote:They have no political freedoms or environmental protections,

So no

Pchelionia wrote:Northrop-Grumman is a country of suffering, since people can be executed and corporally punished by the state. No such nation should ever be commended.
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Never really liked this proposal - always seemed to be an excuse to shoehorn as many possible items of low commend value into a proposal in order to compensate for not being able to find away around the old Rule 1 (new R3a).

Against and recommended an “Against” vote to my Delegate.

He was like me when I first made my draft of a GA abaonded resolotion
Wait, Atomic reactor time?!

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Refuge Isle
Diplomat
 
Posts: 539
Founded: Dec 14, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Refuge Isle » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:00 pm

"Commend Northrop-Grumman" was defeated 6,398 votes to 5,613.
Luca Vytherov (29, F, herbivore)
Refugi Arch-Administrator
Admin assistant: Siv Ember
A List of History
Founder of Refugia
3x WA Author, Deputy WAA Minister of TEP
Posts not OOC are assumed to be made under duress

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Tinhampton
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7592
Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:03 pm

46.73% support - not helped by TSP closing internal voting and deciding to abstain three minutes before a final opinion that could have pushed Amerion in favour, HumanSanity voteflopping twice, and Valerievna providing the final suckerpunch 40 minutes from time. For comparison, Condemn Der Fuhrer Dyszel got 46.17% in the midst of the 3WB logjam and then passed easily three months later.

For: 5,613: Kranostav (1,052), Primorye Oblast (217), The Marconian State (140), Free Azell (128), Lesser Velutaria (108), Josephtan (93), JayDee II (58), TESDAI (46), Arenado (44), Dabberwocky (43), Lunar Cities of America (36), Parkplace (35), Indusse (33), LollerLand (33), Alentejo and Algarve (33), Thembria SSR (31), NewTexas (29), Rangers of the Grey (28), Tostandia (24), Gonadezian World Assembly Ambassador (24), Rhineland Federation (21), Maricoen (20), Mundanus (19), Ecclestia (19), Asian Lands (18), Timzilla (17), Chitral (17), Alcala-Cordel (17), Tomisburg (16), Isaris (14), The Most Freedom Ever (13), Sheepiania (13), Borrin Quen (12), Russia Major (12), Northern Chittowa (12), Turealia (12), Auxorii (12), Ariusgrad (11), Sail Nation (11), East Itoran (10), The Soviet state of Svalbard (10), Albarusija (10), Kustonia (10), Hylia (10), Otaku Stratus (10), Lamoni (9), Kingdom of Englands (9), Gladys and the drowning fish (9), Haruhi Japan (9), Thee Imperium 0f Man (9), Yermaney (9), Romanian Sultanate (8), Aelfwyn (8), Wuunime (8), Rimas (8), Gothic Vandelia (8), Cruciland (8), Khavar-Niscea (8), Itheria (8), Cobosia (8), Durchhalten (7), Aredita (7), Phoenician State (7), The Sovereign Kingdom of Immobilia (7), The Hard Part (7), Axorian (7), Greater Cesnica (7), Kor Pantaal (6), Baccalieu (6), Valerity (6), The Age of Utopia (6), Novus Greater Britannia (6), Eastern New Scotland (6), Muzztopia (6), Omniabstracta (6), Aelythium (6), Zaviana (5), Wadelhelpia (5), Androgynous Nipples (5), Montquebec (5), Luxenermy (5), Tinhampton (5), Shinomiya (5), Crawlaysia (5), KIDS Country (5), Ben Kenobi (5), Lumio Magika (5), Khushvad (4), Aghqoyunlu (4), St Saratoga (4), Urbesque Muratas (4), Cormoe (4), Almerdonia (4), BennionClan (4), The Abrams Republic (4), Kazerkazerk (4), Sfr Creeptopia (4), Barak Khalad (4), Wabacha (4), Horden (4), FORKTASTICSTAN (4), SFR Philippines (4), Imperial Felchah (4), Thermodolia (4), People of Phoenix (4), The Yellow Emperor (4), Chuliu Emperor (3), Kalix (3), The Legion of Mankind (3), Creator Land (3), Pacity Sout (3), Conservativealia (3), Zynthon (3), Cielearda (3), Gaeilge Communes (3), Greenkeep (3), Fighting Everyone (3), Lolcatistan (3), Protectistan (3), Central Protectorate of Alkoholi (3), Sisdonia (3), Groot (3), Zancholiannishia (3), Some People on Planet Arcadia (3), Candleshoe (3), Weffleunion (3), Nittany Nation (2), Foreignaid (2), The ravenclan (2), Opalium (2), ErykCarrillo (2), Novamexia 3 (2), CrossVegas (2), Communo-Slavocia (2), Greater Eireann (2), The Democratic Legion (2), Cupherenia (2), Pinicada (2), Benjyville (2), Parlmone (2), USSR Round II (2), Brailes (2), Zombiedolphins (2), Magna Emerald (2), Democratic Exodian Territories (2), The Ancient World (2), Calcaterra (2), The Starship Command (2), Heale (2), Ferrianona (2), Gonzlandia (2), Sun Burst (2), Arlii Zaldriizessiy Embassy (2), The Atrothan Pillars (2), Hoshido and Nohr (2), Spencer Mosse (2), North Nanahcub (2), Big Belly Empire (2), Sunam (2), Romulus III (2), The Akasha Colony (2), Socialist Russian Union (2), Balthyrrenian (2), Fred Knijampongedona (2), Hyperico (2), Peoples Republic of Nick (2), Czechostan (2), Prussian-Germany (2), Sedgistan (2), Fyrelund (2), and (2,524) individual member nations.

Against: 6,398: Dilber (518), HumanSanity (430), East Durthang (412), Kethania (302), Valerievna (195), Dyl (192), Takura (152), Narvatus (150), ShrewLlamaLand (121), Ruinenlust (108), Veyoris (92), Nulkia (80), The Salaxalans (67), Vancouvia (65), Enlais (62), Bernieland Republic (57), Mikeswill (55), Sylh Alanor (53), Roma Sparta (42), Madison and Wisconsin (39), New South Arctica (37), Yodle (35), Karteria (33), Swiftlandian Peoples Republic (32), Jean Rowe (20), New Luciannova (20), Luperca (16), Draganisia (16), Logon (15), Bassiliya (14), One Small Island (14), The New North Republic (13), Halcyon Nova (13), The Voltarum (11), Hydroponic Nation (11), Levroux (11), Wobbegong (11), Oiran (10), Gatchina (10), Bernavale (9), The Luck of Jirachi (8), Sietsk (8), Orennica (8), Browzantine (8), Nopengie (7), Plaugetopia (7), Chodean Kal (7), Morograd (7), Smiley Bob (6), Draavida (6), Hanging Judge Roy Bean (6), The Agreelands (6), The Democratic Republic of Development (6), The Lydian Mode (6), Madrocea (5), Med Monnite (5), Lesbian Piraters (5), Qudrath (5), Auspicious Skies (5), Loush Lands Partner (5), Vaarland (5), The Moon Federation (5), The Palentine (4), Whoopdonia (4), Matonis (4), Valucol (4), Chemung (4), Innovatis (4), Wed cantoshwarth islands (4), Yuza (3), Alistia (3), Jacobboniaa (3), Beazlend (3), SSTRAYAA (3), Daeara (3), Mekhania (3), Flor-Fina (3), Csri (3), Potaen (3), Feama (3), Naguria (3), Agladica (3), Lamebrainia (3), Kinkerland (3), Golanchia (3), Keursa (3), Lebrea (3), The Neolithic German Empire (3), Azellstan (3), Latanst (3), Eastern Mozambad (3), Madgaleon (2), Nasset (2), Adeiatic (2), Gebelandia (2), Communist Dumpster (2), Aggrar (2), Shoalhaven (2), Banzorland (2), The Knights of Hanoi (2), Werner Reinhardt (2), United Dependencies (2), 11 Templar Knights (2), The Pop Punk Union (2), PREMIER LEAGUE (2), Ard Stiger (2), Molopovia (2), Turmoillia (2), New Armilvay (2), Wirebrush (2), South Ireni (2), The Kingdom of Morocco1 (2), Anglo-Saxon Australia (2), The Holy Bosnian Empire (2), Nacho cheese (2), Saint Jonas (2), Mezmleiyi Synarchy (2), Holland DS6 (2), Islands Of Ventro (2), Tulkland (2), Comackia (2), Arkti (2), The Anarchist Federation of Spain (2), FarmerGroot (2), Sapim (2), Amistake123 (2), Zizzland (2), Melanocytes (2), Wollybutt (2), Saganye (2), Brunelian BG advocates (2), Dux Gloriosus (2), Lehqhbraot (2), Imren (2), and (2,539) individual member nations.
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 319,372): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, #GA#533
Other achievements: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; -45 Darkspawn Kill Points; current WA Delegate of Auctor; "Tinhampton? the man's literally god"
Who am I, really? 45yo Tory woman; Cambridge graduate; possibly very controversial; currently reading Worth Dying For by Tim Marshall

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HumanSanity
Envoy
 
Posts: 242
Founded: Feb 06, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby HumanSanity » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:46 pm

Tinhampton wrote:HumanSanity voteflopping twice

I vote my forum poll and my forum poll was exceptionally close.
HumanSanity
Delegate and Cards Co-op President - 10000 Islands

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Comfed
Diplomat
 
Posts: 588
Founded: Apr 09, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Comfed » Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:33 am

Oh, well.
Mall:
Best part about being a mod was engaging in normal player behavior and getting accused of abuse
"You think this is abuse? I'll SHOW you abuse."
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:
Unibot III wrote:in a liberal justice system


In the liberal justice system, raiding-based offenses are considered especially heinous. In The South Pacific, the dedicated defenders who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Council on Regional Security. These are their proscriptions. DUN DUN.

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Makdon
Envoy
 
Posts: 303
Founded: Nov 14, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Makdon » Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:33 am

I can understand a large part of why this failed. And I don't really fault anyone who thinks that NG shouldn't be commended for things that can't be included in the commendation. To be honest, I generally agree with that, I simply find that the application of the rules to NG's case is an unjustified stretch. Ultimately however, it's a reasonable argument that rules are rules, even if I don't agree with it. I am confused by the claim this that this was a "gotcha". This commendation was intended to commend NG for the what that've done, not to troll moderators, and I thought that would be fairly obvious. I guess not?

Regardless, I am a bit annoyed about people complaining about the drafts writing quality. I presume it's a fair critique, considering how much of seen it brought up here and elsewhere, but sadly, no one chose to mention before I submitted that it's apparently convoluted and incomprehensible. No one has any obligation to give their time telling me that, obviously, but since they were happy to dig in to it after this proposal was at vote, you'd think they might've been able to bring it up during the 42 days of drafting. I have no illusions about my ability as a writer (or about my propensity to make apostrophe mistakes, not that that is a particularly relevant critique), but the whole point of drafting these things is so people who don't write perfectly (which is everyone) can have their writing improved by the eye's of others.

Oh well, I'll try to write better next time, and thanks to all those who did help in drafting! :)
⁝ Former World Assembly Officer of The Rejected Realms ⁝ 2 x SCR author ⁝ Question Mark ⁝

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