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[ABANDONED] Commend Honeydewistania

A chamber dedicated to the dissemination of inter-regional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary.

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Honeydewistania
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Founded: Jun 09, 2017
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Honeydewistania » Fri Dec 25, 2020 2:32 am

Wayneactia wrote:
Comfed wrote:Sorry, but remind me, how is running multiple anti-fascist operations and passing many, many WA resolutions “nothing remotely commendable”?

Weren't they involved with Lennox and Old Zealand/Wooloo pact there at some point?

I was not.
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Wayneactia
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Postby Wayneactia » Fri Dec 25, 2020 2:33 am

Honeydewistania wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:Weren't they involved with Lennox and Old Zealand/Wooloo pact there at some point?

I was not.

My mistake. My other points stand though.
Last edited by Wayneactia on Fri Dec 25, 2020 2:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Boston Castle
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Postby Boston Castle » Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:14 pm

Bump for the new draft.
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Tinhampton
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Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:55 am

Firstly: What have Noahs Second Country, Wallenburg, Bormiar, Sylh Alanor, Refuge Isle, Free Las Pinas, Pluvie, Comfed, Bhang Bhang Duc, HumanSanity, and now myself - in that order - been trying to tell you about making your writing less bland and tasteless? Your two drafts are not identical, clearly, but they are uncannily flat.

Boston Castle wrote:Extolling Honeydewistania further for their efforts in resolving a prominent international issue-the problem of gender equity in access to sports-in “She’s A Keeper?”;

Secondly, the correct title of the issue in question is "She's a Keeper" with no additional punctuation ;p

Thirdly, Condemn NSC was SC#319, not GA#319; and fourthly, there should probably be a space between "involveanimals."
Last edited by Tinhampton on Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Boston Castle
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Postby Boston Castle » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:10 am

Tinhampton wrote:Firstly: What have Noahs Second Country, Wallenburg, Bormiar, Sylh Alanor, Refuge Isle, Free Las Pinas, Pluvie, Comfed, Bhang Bhang Duc, HumanSanity, and now myself - in that order - been trying to tell you about making your writing less bland and tasteless? Your two drafts are not identical, clearly, but they are uncannily flat.

Boston Castle wrote:Extolling Honeydewistania further for their efforts in resolving a prominent international issue-the problem of gender equity in access to sports-in “She’s A Keeper?”;

Secondly, the correct title of the issue in question is "She's a Keeper" with no additional punctuation ;p

Thirdly, Condemn NSC was SC#319, not GA#319; and fourthly, there should probably be a space between "involveanimals."

1. I don't appreciate your tone at all. I have worked on this draft, but at some point, there just will be a tone that is employed that this chamber will have to deal with-hence why I have strengthened the first parts of the clauses. If someone wanted to make a competing version of the same one, that's perfectly alright with me, but I have tried to present the facts as we know them in a way which shows he is commendable. Put nicely, I should only hope that _tone_ isn't the thing which gets you all against this. That would be petty, even for the WA.

2. Didn't catch that in the transfer over from Google Docs.

3. Same there.
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Comfed
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Postby Comfed » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:47 am

Boston Castle wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:Firstly: What have Noahs Second Country, Wallenburg, Bormiar, Sylh Alanor, Refuge Isle, Free Las Pinas, Pluvie, Comfed, Bhang Bhang Duc, HumanSanity, and now myself - in that order - been trying to tell you about making your writing less bland and tasteless? Your two drafts are not identical, clearly, but they are uncannily flat.


Secondly, the correct title of the issue in question is "She's a Keeper" with no additional punctuation ;p

Thirdly, Condemn NSC was SC#319, not GA#319; and fourthly, there should probably be a space between "involveanimals."

1. I don't appreciate your tone at all. I have worked on this draft, but at some point, there just will be a tone that is employed that this chamber will have to deal with-hence why I have strengthened the first parts of the clauses. If someone wanted to make a competing version of the same one, that's perfectly alright with me, but I have tried to present the facts as we know them in a way which shows he is commendable. Put nicely, I should only hope that _tone_ isn't the thing which gets you all against this. That would be petty, even for the WA.

The tone plays a big part in the resolution. You can’t ignore good writing.
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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:49 am

Not often these days that I agree with Tin, but I do have to agree with her first point. This still seems drier and dustier than the Gobi.
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Varanius
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Postby Varanius » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:27 am

At this rate I won’t even have to argue against the proposal, its blandness will kill itself :P
Last edited by Varanius on Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Noahs Second Country
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Postby Noahs Second Country » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:24 pm

Commend NSC was SC 320.
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Gatchina
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Postby Gatchina » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:51 pm

Varanius wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:Who knew that the WA had no business commending people for WA accomplishments.

Oh I’m entirely sure this will get done eventually, but I’m against it. The WA can run around commending people for participating in their little oligarchic club all they’d like, and I’m sure they will, but I’m against it.


This is our sentiment as well. Gatchina has long been of the opinion that no nation merits commendation over another, especially from this...."august" body. We are likewise against it.
Last edited by Gatchina on Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Wayneactia
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Postby Wayneactia » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:20 pm

viewtopic.php?p=38129717#p38129717

These questions have yet to be answered.

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Penguin Palace
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Penguin Palace » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:46 am

Against.

Honeydew is commendable but this proposal doesn’t do him justice.

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Refuge Isle
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Refuge Isle » Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:15 pm

Boston Castle wrote:1. I don't appreciate your tone at all. I have worked on this draft, but at some point, there just will be a tone that is employed that this chamber will have to deal with

Evidence by this and other forum threads of yours, you don't seem keen to listen to criticism you get in any drafting/debate thread, such that I'm not really sure why you're here.

It's possible to push and push and push proposals that are bad. If you're lucky and have enough political spin, you can even pass those proposals - briefly anyway. They may last a few weeks to a month before getting burned down, but it will happen sooner or later if the quality is poor or inaccurate. That is the point your target or your legislative subject will be worse off because of your interference. A far better strategy is to work with people to make the highest quality resolution possible, so that when it hits the floor it's both uncontroversial and remembered fondly. I implore you to begin listening to the WAA staff and resolution authors that so frequently appear in this thread, for they study this material intensely.

Your assertion that either problems are not problems or that they are unsolvable only speaks to your inexperience rather than the rigidity of the format. The SC is nothing more than a platform for ideas about people and places and has some of the laxest rules of any area on NationStates. Anyone can come up with a proposal that's legal with little to no effort, anyone can regurgitate a dispassionate list of facts, but the most celebrated authors of the SC are the ones who can use this medium as a tool to make me care about someone I've never met or make me care about a place I've never been to. The format does not hold you back, your creativity does.
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Boston Castle
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Postby Boston Castle » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:54 pm

Refuge Isle wrote:
Boston Castle wrote:1. I don't appreciate your tone at all. I have worked on this draft, but at some point, there just will be a tone that is employed that this chamber will have to deal with

Evidence by this and other forum threads of yours, you don't seem keen to listen to criticism you get in any drafting/debate thread, such that I'm not really sure why you're here.

It's possible to push and push and push proposals that are bad. If you're lucky and have enough political spin, you can even pass those proposals - briefly anyway. They may last a few weeks to a month before getting burned down, but it will happen sooner or later if the quality is poor or inaccurate. That is the point your target or your legislative subject will be worse off because of your interference. A far better strategy is to work with people to make the highest quality resolution possible, so that when it hits the floor it's both uncontroversial and remembered fondly. I implore you to begin listening to the WAA staff and resolution authors that so frequently appear in this thread, for they study this material intensely.

Your assertion that either problems are not problems or that they are unsolvable only speaks to your inexperience rather than the rigidity of the format. The SC is nothing more than a platform for ideas about people and places and has some of the laxest rules of any area on NationStates. Anyone can come up with a proposal that's legal with little to no effort, anyone can regurgitate a dispassionate list of facts, but the most celebrated authors of the SC are the ones who can use this medium as a tool to make me care about someone I've never met or make me care about a place I've never been to. The format does not hold you back, your creativity does.

The issue that I’ve got with Tin’s tone earlier is the way she’s handled it.

Now, to address the other elephant-in-the-room issue. The tone of the text. I genuinely do not know how to do what you all are asking me to do. For a variety of reasons. 1) Honeydew’s proposals, at least the SC ones mentioned here are relatively (though not entirely) similar. 2) I am genuinely not seeing a route to making this sound any less formulaic while also covering the breadth of his accomplishments-there are, of course, a lot. Genuinely, if you would like to help in terms of “here’s what you could do”, that would be very much appreciated. However, saying “this isn’t good enough and is dry” without suggestions for how to make it less dry is a non-starter.

Genuinely sorry if I came across as angry or trying to be rude. Truth be told, I’m trying to figure out exactly how to do things and I’m struggling to address the tone of it simply because I just don’t see how to creatively twist this-at least to any appreciable amount.
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Jakker
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Jakker » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:44 pm

Boston Castle wrote:Now, to address the other elephant-in-the-room issue. The tone of the text. I genuinely do not know how to do what you all are asking me to do. For a variety of reasons. 1) Honeydew’s proposals, at least the SC ones mentioned here are relatively (though not entirely) similar.


I think if people are critical of the writing/approach of a commendation proposal that mentions SC writing and you are articulating that you essentially copied the nominee's style, you are making the case that their SC writing is not really commendable.
Last edited by Jakker on Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Boston Castle
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Postby Boston Castle » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:10 pm

Jakker wrote:
Boston Castle wrote:Now, to address the other elephant-in-the-room issue. The tone of the text. I genuinely do not know how to do what you all are asking me to do. For a variety of reasons. 1) Honeydew’s proposals, at least the SC ones mentioned here are relatively (though not entirely) similar.


I think if people are critical of the writing/approach of a commendation proposal that mentions SC writing and you are articulating that you essentially copied the nominee's style, you are making the case that their SC writing is not really commendable.

Fair there, but I do think that it is in some sense commendable because he's done a lot of it.

Perhaps I'd feel more comfortable not addressing it if there was precedent for commending a player/nation twice. That way someone could focus more on it in the future. It certainly would maybe help because I then can better reflect some of the snark inherent in his GA work.

[To be more specific, in the way he occasionally critiques proposals. This was the reason I initially wanted to include the repeal of GAR #522 in his Commend because I think it best reflected his personality.]
Last edited by Boston Castle on Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jakker
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Postby Jakker » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:27 pm

Boston Castle wrote:Perhaps I'd feel more comfortable not addressing it if there was precedent for commending a player/nation twice. That way someone could focus more on it in the future. It certainly would maybe help because I then can better reflect some of the snark inherent in his GA work.

[To be more specific, in the way he occasionally critiques proposals. This was the reason I initially wanted to include the repeal of GAR #522 in his Commend because I think it best reflected his personality.]


While it is not common, I am totally for commending/condemning players multiple times if they have done enough either since their last badge or the proposals are sufficient on their own. However in this case, you need to still make the case that the nominee even deserves a commendation at all. I don't think commendations/condemnations are necessary or should necessarily be about quantity alone. You have essentially said that the nominee has questionable quality in their SC proposals but they have written several resolutions so that in of itself is commendable. Not sure if that is a strong argument. I cannot speak for their GA writing quality, but from what I heard from others, it is likely similar.
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Boston Castle
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Postby Boston Castle » Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:23 pm

Was mulling this over for a while in my head and I think it's best for me to lay this to rest. I'm incredibly grateful to all of you for the assistance that you all have provided and tried to provide on this resolution. Maybe someone else can do Honeydew justice and maybe I've provided a little bit of help in the effort to get him commended.

Edit: I would ask that should anyone decide to use the language that I use in this draft that you please credit me, but anyone has my blessing to take this up. (Not that you needed it.)
Last edited by Boston Castle on Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Honeydewistania
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Founded: Jun 09, 2017
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Honeydewistania » Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:49 pm

RIP
Honeydewistania (Nation mostly does not represent real life views.)

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Boston Castle
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Postby Boston Castle » Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:01 pm

Honeydewistania wrote:RIP

I have absolutely no doubt that you'll be commended, maybe even by Prae! But I almost certainly won't be the author of it.
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