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[LAST CALL] Condemn The Free Joy State

A chamber dedicated to the dissemination of inter-regional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary.
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Cretox State
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

[LAST CALL] Condemn The Free Joy State

Postby Cretox State » Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:13 pm

As always, any feedback is appreciated.

Condemn The Free Joy State



The Security Council,

Appreciating the immense work that national leaders face on a daily basis to keep their respective nations functioning smoothly,

Realizing that these leaders often face crises of a potentially national scale, which must be dealt with quickly and decisively on top of leaders' nominal workload lest said crises metastasize into crippling catastrophes,

Noting, however, that there exist malicious actors who will stop at nothing to exploit the busyness and gullibility of the average modern leader to nefarious ends, in an area where any mistake can have disastrous consequences,

Disgusted at the relentless efforts of The Free Joy State to actively manipulate the decisions of national leaders and precipitate these calamities on a multiversal scale,

Understanding that The Free Joy State has undertaken no fewer than three confirmed mass infiltration operations that could potentially undermine the stability of any nation in existence at any time, and which this Council has been utterly powerless to stop to this day, including:
  1. Operation #522, codename "Time To Get Serious", in which Free Joyish agents pose as dour faith leaders and attempt to convince national leaders to outlaw laughter, thereby making a mockery of national governments and sowing the seeds of mass unrest in one fell swoop,
  2. Operation #549, codename "Feasting Or Fasting?", in which Free Joyish stealth teams abduct the nephews of national leaders and brainwash said nephews into coercing their aunts and uncles into tossing untold scores of overweight teenagers into gladiatorial arenas, a cruel and petty mission which only exemplifies the utter depravity of The Free Joy State, and
  3. a far more secretive plot, Operation #559 (codename "The Low Aspiration Nation"), in which operatives of The Free Joy State infiltrate the highest levels of national governments across the multiverse in an effort to trick national leaders into enslaving their own populations, a scheme so heinous even The Free Joy State's government sought to avoid being directly associated with it, leading to it being staged out of the puppet state of The New Bluestocking Homeland,
Mortified by The Free Joy State's rampant public attempts to influence those who seek to assist national leaders with running their nations and by extension corrupt their necessary work,

Reviling in horror at the blatant oppression that permeates every corner of Free Joyish society, which manifests through unnerving policies such as corporal punishment, conscription, outlawing public protest, banning people from entering or leaving the country, and human sacrifice,

Nauseated by the blatantly advertised villainy of The One True Church of the Exalted Holiness and Free Joyish institutions at large, who take a bizarre pride in their crimes against their own people, including overt racism, weekly public executions, and utter contempt for the environment and the health of their citizens,

Resolving to at least recognize the despicable endeavors of this grotesque excuse of a nation, even though they may never be stopped,

Hereby condemns The Free Joy State.
Last edited by Cretox State on Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:22 am, edited 9 times in total.

The North Pacific Minister of WA Affairs
Author: 8 GA + 2 SC resolutions, and a lot of drafts

WALL ambassador
Assume OOC

Killer of Stats
"above the level of needing to be told how English works" - Candlewhisper Archive
"pure legalese" - Araraukar
"barrel of nonsense" - Tinhampton
"Just hurry up and declare a coup" - Honeydewistania
"a joke with no punchline" - Minskiev
"purge me daddy" - Praeceps
GA #496
GA #503 (1st in category)
GA #504
GA #509 (1st in category)
GA #510
GA #512
GA #520
GA #523

SC #318
SC #331

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Cretox State
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Founded: Nov 04, 2015
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Cretox State » Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:13 pm

The Security Council,

Appreciating the immense work that national leaders face on a daily basis to keep their respective nations functioning smoothly,

Realizing that these leaders often face crises of a potentially national scale, which must be dealt with quickly and decisively on top of leaders' nominal workload lest said crises metastasize into crippling catastrophes,

Noting, however, that there exist malicious actors who will stop at nothing to exploit the busyness and gullibility of the average modern leader to nefarious ends, in an area where any mistake can have disastrous consequences,

Disgusted at the relentless efforts of The Free Joy State to actively manipulate the decisions of national leaders and precipitate these calamities on a multiversal scale,

Understanding that The Free Joy State has undertaken no fewer than three confirmed mass infiltration operations that could potentially undermine the stability of any nation in existence at any time, and which this Council has been utterly powerless to stop to this day, including:
  1. Operation #522, codename "Time To Get Serious", in which Free Joyish agents pose as dour faith leaders and attempt to convince national leaders to outlaw laughter, thereby making a mockery of national governments and sowing the seeds of mass unrest in one fell swoop,
  2. Operation #549, codename "Feasting Or Fasting?", in which Free Joyish stealth teams abduct the nephews of national leaders and brainwash said nephews into coercing their aunts and uncles into tossing untold scores of overweight teenagers into gladiatorial arenas, a cruel and petty mission which only exemplifies the utter depravity of The Free Joy State, and
  3. a far more secretive plot, Operation #559 (codename "The Low Aspiration Nation"), in which operatives of The Free Joy State infiltrate the highest levels of national governments across the multiverse in an effort to trick national leaders into enslaving their own populations, a scheme so heinous even The Free Joy State's government sought to avoid being directly associated with it, leading to it being staged out of the puppet state of [URL=nation]The New Bluestocking Homeland[/nation],
Believing that with the sheer resources at The Free Joy State's disposal, they could potentially engage in as many as thirty-six simultaneous operations of equal nefariousness should they choose to do so, though this is pure speculation and not confirmable by this Council,

Adamant that the inability of the virtually omniscient Security Council to confirm or deny such speculation is further evidence of The Free Joy State's stranglehold over critical parts of international affairs,

Disgusted by The Free Joy State's rampant attempts to twist and corrupt the hard work of other governments to assist national leaders in running their nations, attempts which are often incredibly successful,

Reviling in horror at the blatant oppression that permeates every corner of Free Joyish society, which manifests through unnerving policies such as corporal punishment, conscription, human sacrifice, a lack of any judiciary, slavery, child labor, a complete crackdown on computers and the Internet, feudalism, outlawing public protest, and banning people from entering or leaving the country, and

Resolving to at least recognize the despicable endeavors of this grotesque excuse of a nation, even though they may never be stopped nor their full scope ever be truly known,

Hereby condemns The Free Joy State.
Last edited by Cretox State on Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The North Pacific Minister of WA Affairs
Author: 8 GA + 2 SC resolutions, and a lot of drafts

WALL ambassador
Assume OOC

Killer of Stats
"above the level of needing to be told how English works" - Candlewhisper Archive
"pure legalese" - Araraukar
"barrel of nonsense" - Tinhampton
"Just hurry up and declare a coup" - Honeydewistania
"a joke with no punchline" - Minskiev
"purge me daddy" - Praeceps
GA #496
GA #503 (1st in category)
GA #504
GA #509 (1st in category)
GA #510
GA #512
GA #520
GA #523

SC #318
SC #331

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Lord Dominator
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Postby Lord Dominator » Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:16 pm

The Believing clause definitely looks like a R4 violation, no matter how sneaky the acknowledgement is supposed to be :p
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Cretox State
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Postby Cretox State » Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:18 pm

Lord Dominator wrote:The Believing clause definitely looks like a R4 violation, no matter how sneaky the acknowledgement is supposed to be :p

Technically, I have the resources to potentially write 100 issues should I choose to do so :blush:

The North Pacific Minister of WA Affairs
Author: 8 GA + 2 SC resolutions, and a lot of drafts

WALL ambassador
Assume OOC

Killer of Stats
"above the level of needing to be told how English works" - Candlewhisper Archive
"pure legalese" - Araraukar
"barrel of nonsense" - Tinhampton
"Just hurry up and declare a coup" - Honeydewistania
"a joke with no punchline" - Minskiev
"purge me daddy" - Praeceps
GA #496
GA #503 (1st in category)
GA #504
GA #509 (1st in category)
GA #510
GA #512
GA #520
GA #523

SC #318
SC #331

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Lord Dominator
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Postby Lord Dominator » Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:19 pm

Cretox State wrote:
Lord Dominator wrote:The Believing clause definitely looks like a R4 violation, no matter how sneaky the acknowledgement is supposed to be :p

Technically, I have the resources to potentially write 100 issues should I choose to do so :blush:

Technically, yes - but I'm pretty sure that we all see what you mean
Last edited by Lord Dominator on Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Honeydewistania
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Postby Honeydewistania » Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:22 pm

If you’re going to include stats/policies, include something about their Exalted Holiness and the church being Super evil or something.

Also factor in something about their presence on the forums, since that’s the only legal thing that really makes them noteworthy. Maybe something like they prowl communications channels to make benevolent nations wishing to present issues to leaders actually do something malicious etc

Edit: nvm you did that already. Ignore the second bit
Last edited by Honeydewistania on Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cretox State
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Postby Cretox State » Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:23 pm

Honeydewistania wrote:If you’re going to include stats/policies, include something about their Exalted Holiness and the church being Super evil or something.

How did I manage to leave that out? Working on it.

The North Pacific Minister of WA Affairs
Author: 8 GA + 2 SC resolutions, and a lot of drafts

WALL ambassador
Assume OOC

Killer of Stats
"above the level of needing to be told how English works" - Candlewhisper Archive
"pure legalese" - Araraukar
"barrel of nonsense" - Tinhampton
"Just hurry up and declare a coup" - Honeydewistania
"a joke with no punchline" - Minskiev
"purge me daddy" - Praeceps
GA #496
GA #503 (1st in category)
GA #504
GA #509 (1st in category)
GA #510
GA #512
GA #520
GA #523

SC #318
SC #331

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USS Monitor
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Postby USS Monitor » Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:25 pm

Cretox State wrote:
Lord Dominator wrote:The Believing clause definitely looks like a R4 violation, no matter how sneaky the acknowledgement is supposed to be :p

Technically, I have the resources to potentially write 100 issues should I choose to do so :blush:


I'd just remove or replace that clause. It's not the strongest piece of writing in the resolution anyway.
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Lord Dominator
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Postby Lord Dominator » Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:28 pm

To be more clear, the position of the mods that I've been aware is that any mention of issues written by editors published after they became an editor is unmentionable in SC resolutions, including the fact that they have more issues published than the ones you're allowed to mention directly.
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Noahs Second Country
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Postby Noahs Second Country » Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:31 pm

USS Monitor wrote:
Cretox State wrote:Technically, I have the resources to potentially write 100 issues should I choose to do so :blush:


I'd just remove or replace that clause. It's not the strongest piece of writing in the resolution anyway.

Agreed, feels illegal.

Support otherwise.
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Cretox State
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Postby Cretox State » Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:03 pm

USS Monitor wrote:
Cretox State wrote:Technically, I have the resources to potentially write 100 issues should I choose to do so :blush:


I'd just remove or replace that clause. It's not the strongest piece of writing in the resolution anyway.

Removed.

The North Pacific Minister of WA Affairs
Author: 8 GA + 2 SC resolutions, and a lot of drafts

WALL ambassador
Assume OOC

Killer of Stats
"above the level of needing to be told how English works" - Candlewhisper Archive
"pure legalese" - Araraukar
"barrel of nonsense" - Tinhampton
"Just hurry up and declare a coup" - Honeydewistania
"a joke with no punchline" - Minskiev
"purge me daddy" - Praeceps
GA #496
GA #503 (1st in category)
GA #504
GA #509 (1st in category)
GA #510
GA #512
GA #520
GA #523

SC #318
SC #331

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Sedgistan
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Postby Sedgistan » Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:27 am

This "wink wink nudge nudge" stuff won't fly.

We allow you to cite issues published prior to an IE joining the team, and loosened things to allow issues published after leaving the team to be cited. Those rules are not being loosened further. I've already given advice on the absolute maximum amount of "wink wink nudge nudge" you can get away with - using an adjective such as "numerous" to describe the number of issues authored rather than mentioning an exact number - because that is the same wording you could use if referring solely to issues authored before/after being on the IE team. But doing that and trying to wedge in references to the topics of those staff-authored issues is not okay, and will get your proposal marked as illegal.

Rule 1 is a fundamental rule of the Security Council. If you're writing your proposal to try and commend/condemn staff members for staff actions, it's going to get binned.

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Cretox State
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Postby Cretox State » Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:44 am

Sedgistan wrote:We allow you to cite issues published prior to an IE joining the team, and loosened things to allow issues published after leaving the team to be cited. Those rules are not being loosened further.

Understood, thanks for clarifying.

Sedgistan wrote:I've already given advice on the absolute maximum amount of "wink wink nudge nudge" you can get away with - using an adjective such as "numerous" to describe the number of issues authored rather than mentioning an exact number - because that is the same wording you could use if referring solely to issues authored before/after being on the IE team.

The wording I’m using is “no fewer than three”- this is very similar to “numerous efforts by Frieden-und Freudenland, which total no fewer than 14” in Commend FuF, a legal proposal that passed. The “numerous” in the latter case does nothing for the meaning of the sentence.

Sedgistan wrote:But doing that and trying to wedge in references to the topics of those staff-authored issues is not okay, and will get your proposal marked as illegal.

Rule 1 is a fundamental rule of the Security Council. If you're writing your proposal to try and commend/condemn staff members for staff actions, it's going to get binned.

I agree, the “thirty-six” sections I had initially were stupid. However, I’m not quite seeing what in the current draft is a rule 1 violation.
Last edited by Cretox State on Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

The North Pacific Minister of WA Affairs
Author: 8 GA + 2 SC resolutions, and a lot of drafts

WALL ambassador
Assume OOC

Killer of Stats
"above the level of needing to be told how English works" - Candlewhisper Archive
"pure legalese" - Araraukar
"barrel of nonsense" - Tinhampton
"Just hurry up and declare a coup" - Honeydewistania
"a joke with no punchline" - Minskiev
"purge me daddy" - Praeceps
GA #496
GA #503 (1st in category)
GA #504
GA #509 (1st in category)
GA #510
GA #512
GA #520
GA #523

SC #318
SC #331

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Cretox State
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Founded: Nov 04, 2015
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Postby Cretox State » Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:04 pm

I've submitted this; will wait for a ruling before campaigning.

The North Pacific Minister of WA Affairs
Author: 8 GA + 2 SC resolutions, and a lot of drafts

WALL ambassador
Assume OOC

Killer of Stats
"above the level of needing to be told how English works" - Candlewhisper Archive
"pure legalese" - Araraukar
"barrel of nonsense" - Tinhampton
"Just hurry up and declare a coup" - Honeydewistania
"a joke with no punchline" - Minskiev
"purge me daddy" - Praeceps
GA #496
GA #503 (1st in category)
GA #504
GA #509 (1st in category)
GA #510
GA #512
GA #520
GA #523

SC #318
SC #331

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Jakker
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Postby Jakker » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:48 pm

Cretox State wrote:I've submitted this; will wait for a ruling before campaigning.


I marked as legal but there is a line that is being discussed that appears to be discussing issue editing.
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Cretox State
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Postby Cretox State » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:17 pm

Jakker wrote:
Cretox State wrote:I've submitted this; will wait for a ruling before campaigning.


I marked as legal but there is a line that is being discussed that appears to be discussing issue editing.

Yeah, that’s the main thing I was wondering about. The intention of that line is GI discussion.

The North Pacific Minister of WA Affairs
Author: 8 GA + 2 SC resolutions, and a lot of drafts

WALL ambassador
Assume OOC

Killer of Stats
"above the level of needing to be told how English works" - Candlewhisper Archive
"pure legalese" - Araraukar
"barrel of nonsense" - Tinhampton
"Just hurry up and declare a coup" - Honeydewistania
"a joke with no punchline" - Minskiev
"purge me daddy" - Praeceps
GA #496
GA #503 (1st in category)
GA #504
GA #509 (1st in category)
GA #510
GA #512
GA #520
GA #523

SC #318
SC #331

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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:35 pm

To be honest while the proposal is well written it just leaves me cold. I personally don’t think there is enough in it to warrant a Condemnation.

A somewhat overlong preamble, three issues and then a couple of clauses describing the alleged evilness of the nominee. Doesn’t do it for me - no support.

Edit: on re-reading again those last couple of clauses feel more like a laundry list, how much supposed evilness can we squeeze into a few lines.
Last edited by Bhang Bhang Duc on Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Sedgistan
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Postby Sedgistan » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:05 am

Cretox State wrote:
Jakker wrote:
I marked as legal but there is a line that is being discussed that appears to be discussing issue editing.

Yeah, that’s the main thing I was wondering about. The intention of that line is GI discussion.

I doubt it is, but you've just about written it sufficiently so it squeaks through.

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Cretox State
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Postby Cretox State » Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:33 am

Sedgistan wrote:
Cretox State wrote:Yeah, that’s the main thing I was wondering about. The intention of that line is GI discussion.

I doubt it is, but you've just about written it sufficiently so it squeaks through.

Regardless, I changed that clause somewhat to hopefully be less on the fence:

Mortified by The Free Joy State's rampant public attempts to influence those who seek to assist national leaders with running their nations and by extension corrupt their necessary work

The North Pacific Minister of WA Affairs
Author: 8 GA + 2 SC resolutions, and a lot of drafts

WALL ambassador
Assume OOC

Killer of Stats
"above the level of needing to be told how English works" - Candlewhisper Archive
"pure legalese" - Araraukar
"barrel of nonsense" - Tinhampton
"Just hurry up and declare a coup" - Honeydewistania
"a joke with no punchline" - Minskiev
"purge me daddy" - Praeceps
GA #496
GA #503 (1st in category)
GA #504
GA #509 (1st in category)
GA #510
GA #512
GA #520
GA #523

SC #318
SC #331

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Wallenburg
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Postby Wallenburg » Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:36 pm

This is well prepared, but I just don't think three issues is enough to merit commendation. Maybe three issues in conjunction with regional service or successful military operations, or WA authorship, or exceptional roleplay, but not three issues alone.
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Cretox State
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Postby Cretox State » Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:11 pm

Wallenburg wrote:This is well prepared, but I just don't think three issues is enough to merit commendation. Maybe three issues in conjunction with regional service or successful military operations, or WA authorship, or exceptional roleplay, but not three issues alone.

I present to you Commend Candlewhisper Archive.

The North Pacific Minister of WA Affairs
Author: 8 GA + 2 SC resolutions, and a lot of drafts

WALL ambassador
Assume OOC

Killer of Stats
"above the level of needing to be told how English works" - Candlewhisper Archive
"pure legalese" - Araraukar
"barrel of nonsense" - Tinhampton
"Just hurry up and declare a coup" - Honeydewistania
"a joke with no punchline" - Minskiev
"purge me daddy" - Praeceps
GA #496
GA #503 (1st in category)
GA #504
GA #509 (1st in category)
GA #510
GA #512
GA #520
GA #523

SC #318
SC #331

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Wallenburg
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Postby Wallenburg » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:12 pm

Cretox State wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:This is well prepared, but I just don't think three issues is enough to merit commendation. Maybe three issues in conjunction with regional service or successful military operations, or WA authorship, or exceptional roleplay, but not three issues alone.

I present to you Commend Candlewhisper Archive.

Which I voted against. I don't think it's enough. It's certainly a promising sign toward earning a condemnation down the line (CW has a whopping 95 issues badges now, which can only speak to broader conduct worthy of commendation and within the scope of the rules), but right now this sum of achievements comes across as meager and potentially embarrassing. Would you not rather The Free Joy State be represented by a condemnation which truly encompasses their achievements later on, rather than one that prematurely tries to congratulate them on a short handful of items?

EDIT: from that resolution's thread, this was my argument against it:
Wallenburg wrote:I am afraid that I do not find a nation commend-worthy simply for writing issues.

Wallenburg wrote:
Drasnia wrote:So would only passing WA legislation not be commend-worthy either?

Correct. And before you cite "Commend Separatist Peoples", be aware that it commends SP for roleplay contributions extending well beyond WA legislation.

So it seems that if I have lost any consistency, it has been in the direction of being more lenient on my stance toward issue C&Cs. As I pointed out, if there were a broader span of achievements here, I'd be more open to the condemn. As it is, there's just no meat on this bill's bones.
Last edited by Wallenburg on Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Refuge Isle
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Postby Refuge Isle » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:38 pm

I swear I posted this already, but I guess my computer ate it. Hope I didn't put it in another thread :blush:

Cretox State wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:This is well prepared, but I just don't think three issues is enough to merit commendation. Maybe three issues in conjunction with regional service or successful military operations, or WA authorship, or exceptional roleplay, but not three issues alone.

I present to you Commend Candlewhisper Archive.


I like I said in the WAA channel, resolutions from three years ago aren't really relevant anymore, imo. The standards of content are, on average, much higher now. Especially in the last year and a half, resolutions are often longer and more narrative. You can blame Xoriet, among others, for that if you like :p The fact that a resolution of questionable quality was passed before those standards were raised, I don't think is relevant to anything.

Personally, I feel like the proposal is low of content and high on fluff. If, as you commented to me when I raised this before, you cannot include anything else because it would be an R1 violation, that seems to indicate that you want to condemn someone for their work as site staff and simply aren't allowed to. If that's the case, the Security Council is probably not an appropriate method for their recognition. That is to say, if there isn't enough content from the player as a regular player, then it's not the right time to pass a resolution to recognise them.

Will be voting against.
Last edited by Refuge Isle on Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Honeydewistania
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Founded: Jun 09, 2017
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Honeydewistania » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:53 pm

I believe this can be fixed by making the feedback clause more impactful. Candlewhisper Archive’s one hinged on that more than his supposed editing contributions and three issues. While FJS isn’t at CWA level she’s good enough to be recognised for it.
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Noahs Second Country
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Founded: Aug 31, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Noahs Second Country » Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:01 pm

Wallenburg wrote:This is well prepared, but I just don't think three issues is enough to merit commendation. Maybe three issues in conjunction with regional service or successful military operations, or WA authorship, or exceptional roleplay, but not three issues alone.

I echo this reply in the thread of Commend CWA, you could make the same argument for Joy.
Frisbeeteria wrote:
I don't think authoring three issues is sufficient reason to commend someone.

As opposed to raiding or roleplaying? There's a ton of work involved, probably more than most suspect ... and it impacts everyone in the game. It's absolutely worth a commendation.

It's a shame R1 won't let us recognize the work CWA has done as Senior Issues Editor, because that's been absolutely MASSIVE. There is an incredible amount behind-the-scenes stuff being done by them. Whether the SC recognizes them or not, I want it clearly understood that staff members are pretty much in awe of the work being done by the Issues team under CWA's leadership. Despite this proposal necessarily being limited to the 3 or 5 issues created before they joined the team, it's still worthy of SC recognition.
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