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[PASSED] Commend the Red Fleet

A chamber dedicated to the dissemination of inter-regional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary.

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Outer Sparta
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Posts: 10564
Founded: Dec 26, 2014
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Outer Sparta » Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:17 pm

Marxist Germany wrote:OOC: If The Red Fleet was indeed fighting against hateful ideologies, as they and this proposal claim, one would expect that they would also denounce communism, and ideology that has caused far more harm and destruction upon the human race than any other ideology except for fascism/nazism. It sounds to me like The Red Fleet uses the guise of "fighting hate ideology" as an excuse to purge political opponents from the site, hypocritically, a tactic used by the very people they claim to oppose. This resolution commends communists for successfully griefing hundreds of region, many of which were nothing more than roleplay regions.

Not only is this assembly commending raiders (nothing new here), but it is also commending people who follow an ideology just as hateful as fascism. This is a no-brainer against vote from me.

Would you do the reverse and commend fascist regions that raid communist ones?
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JC Cavs
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 5
Founded: Sep 03, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby JC Cavs » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:02 am

Honeydewistania wrote:
Mingulay Isle wrote:Attacking your enemies and and defending your allies isn't commendable. It's expected of any military organisation.

Well some of the regions defended weren't exactly allies of the Red FLeet, more like random leftist regions targeted by Nazis I suppose. I should make that clear



I fully support this because nations defending countries that are and are not their allies against a common enemy Helps create world unity. The Red Fleet should be recognized for their efforts because it resulted in a more united world and can help achieve world peace.

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Gaen Vale Queendom
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 6
Founded: May 17, 2020
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Gaen Vale Queendom » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:05 am

Outer Sparta wrote:
Marxist Germany wrote:OOC: If The Red Fleet was indeed fighting against hateful ideologies, as they and this proposal claim, one would expect that they would also denounce communism, and ideology that has caused far more harm and destruction upon the human race than any other ideology except for fascism/nazism. It sounds to me like The Red Fleet uses the guise of "fighting hate ideology" as an excuse to purge political opponents from the site, hypocritically, a tactic used by the very people they claim to oppose. This resolution commends communists for successfully griefing hundreds of region, many of which were nothing more than roleplay regions.

Not only is this assembly commending raiders (nothing new here), but it is also commending people who follow an ideology just as hateful as fascism. This is a no-brainer against vote from me.

Would you do the reverse and commend fascist regions that raid communist ones?


Here is the definition of facism : A governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

In other words, communism is the same as facism with a few economical differences since the definition of facism can apply to any communist government. In fact, the WA should just condemn both since they are agressive and oppressive military regimes that are a threat to democracy.

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Sodoran Alesia
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 188
Founded: Jun 07, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sodoran Alesia » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:39 am

Gaen Vale Queendom wrote:
Outer Sparta wrote:Would you do the reverse and commend fascist regions that raid communist ones?


Here is the definition of facism : A governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

In other words, communism is the same as facism with a few economical differences since the definition of facism can apply to any communist government. In fact, the WA should just condemn both since they are agressive and oppressive military regimes that are a threat to democracy.


lol, it's clear you don't know what communism actually is or have actually explored it beyond the typical American education that makes out communism as some great evil. Not only that, but TRF isn't communist, it's Pan-Leftist, like there's anarchists as well too lol

Also, it seems you don't understand what condemnations are actually for, they're for regions or nations who play the villain well. I am perplexed though, how is TRF a threat to democracy on a trivial internet game lol

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Gaen Vale Queendom
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Posts: 6
Founded: May 17, 2020
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Gaen Vale Queendom » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:11 pm

Sodoran Alesia wrote:
Gaen Vale Queendom wrote:
Here is the definition of facism : A governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

In other words, communism is the same as facism with a few economical differences since the definition of facism can apply to any communist government. In fact, the WA should just condemn both since they are agressive and oppressive military regimes that are a threat to democracy.


lol, it's clear you don't know what communism actually is or have actually explored it beyond the typical American education that makes out communism as some great evil. Not only that, but TRF isn't communist, it's Pan-Leftist, like there's anarchists as well too lol

Also, it seems you don't understand what condemnations are actually for, they're for regions or nations who play the villain well. I am perplexed though, how is TRF a threat to democracy on a trivial internet game lol


I'm not american otherwise I would be calling it socialism since they don't know the difference between the two. But yeah, communism is pretty bad. Let's look at communist countries : You got the USSR that commited the holodomor, you got China's Great Leap Forward that killed tens of millions and many mass killings, political assasinations and repression from all communist nations. Sure, the concept of perfect equality sounds a lot nicer than facism, but when put in action, they are very similar.

I said that TRF is a threat to democracy because I was roleplaying. Roleplaying is litteraly the reason the WA exists.

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Calibert
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Founded: Jan 17, 2019
Corporate Bordello

Postby Calibert » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:16 pm

Against, by this resolution's logic we have to commend every raider region.

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Makdon
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Posts: 239
Founded: Nov 14, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Makdon » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:48 pm

Calibert wrote:Against, by this resolution's logic we have to commend every raider region.

What you’re saying makes literally no sense. How does the extrapolation of the logic in this proposal make every raider group commendable? Also, please recall that TRF was commended for years, and that didn’t magically completely change SC standards
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Outer Sparta
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Posts: 10564
Founded: Dec 26, 2014
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Outer Sparta » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:31 pm

Gaen Vale Queendom wrote:
Sodoran Alesia wrote:
lol, it's clear you don't know what communism actually is or have actually explored it beyond the typical American education that makes out communism as some great evil. Not only that, but TRF isn't communist, it's Pan-Leftist, like there's anarchists as well too lol

Also, it seems you don't understand what condemnations are actually for, they're for regions or nations who play the villain well. I am perplexed though, how is TRF a threat to democracy on a trivial internet game lol


I'm not american otherwise I would be calling it socialism since they don't know the difference between the two. But yeah, communism is pretty bad. Let's look at communist countries : You got the USSR that commited the holodomor, you got China's Great Leap Forward that killed tens of millions and many mass killings, political assasinations and repression from all communist nations. Sure, the concept of perfect equality sounds a lot nicer than facism, but when put in action, they are very similar.

I said that TRF is a threat to democracy because I was roleplaying. Roleplaying is litteraly the reason the WA exists.

So you don't think that TRF should be commended just because they're communist? Is that your logic there?
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Honeydewistania
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Honeydewistania » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:05 pm

Calibert wrote:Against, by this resolution's logic we have to commend every raider region.

If you’re going to make a slippery slope argument, at least make one that is based on common sense
Last edited by Honeydewistania on Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Honeydewistania (Nation mostly does not represent real life views.)

Retired Regional Military Director of Lazarus
Posts OOC unless marked otherwise.
Ambassador to the WA: Benji Schubert Hepperle
Assistant to the Ambassador: Rekeil Wrigglesworth II
Official Coffee-fetcher and Masseuse: Jonathan Santos de Oliveira

The MT Army Warrior
Biggest acheivement: Spelling
GA#494 Regulating Desalination
GA#498 Ban on Forced Blood Sports
GA#502 Repeal "Freedom to Seek Medical Care II"
GA#507 Repeal "Promotion of Recycling"
GA#511 Ensuring Effectual Recycling

SC#315 Commend Vippertooth33
SC#320 Condemn Noahs Second Country
SC#324 Commend The Red Fleet

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Marxist Germany
Minister
 
Posts: 2051
Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Corporate Bordello

Postby Marxist Germany » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:47 am

Outer Sparta wrote:
Marxist Germany wrote:OOC: If The Red Fleet was indeed fighting against hateful ideologies, as they and this proposal claim, one would expect that they would also denounce communism, and ideology that has caused far more harm and destruction upon the human race than any other ideology except for fascism/nazism. It sounds to me like The Red Fleet uses the guise of "fighting hate ideology" as an excuse to purge political opponents from the site, hypocritically, a tactic used by the very people they claim to oppose. This resolution commends communists for successfully griefing hundreds of region, many of which were nothing more than roleplay regions.

Not only is this assembly commending raiders (nothing new here), but it is also commending people who follow an ideology just as hateful as fascism. This is a no-brainer against vote from me.

Would you do the reverse and commend fascist regions that raid communist ones?

OOC: I personally believe that no raider should be Commended in the first place. The Condemn button exists for a reason. Innocent communist regions have just as much right to exist as do fascist regions or regions of neither ideology.
Last edited by Marxist Germany on Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Country represents RL views mostly. Not Marxist anymore.
Author of GA#461, GA#470, GA#477, GA#481, GA#486 (co-author), and SC#295

Ex-delegate of The United Federations; citizen and ex-Senior Senator of 10000 Islands | Gaming User#0721(Discord)
RP name: Germany
The National Factbook (WIP)
Ambassador Klaus Schmidt
Political Compass
Pro:Laissez-faire, Cultural Nationalism, Guns, Free speech, Christianity, United Ireland.
Anti:"Progressivism", Abortion, Transgenderism, Socialism, Interventionism, Mass-migration.

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Refuge Isle
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Posts: 364
Founded: Dec 14, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Refuge Isle » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:12 am

Marxist Germany wrote:
Outer Sparta wrote:Would you do the reverse and commend fascist regions that raid communist ones?

OOC: I personally believe that no raider should be Commended in the first place. The Condemn button exists for a reason. Innocent communist regions have just as much right to exist as do fascist regions or regions of neither ideology.

That's some pretty yikes stuff. Most of NS is united behind the idea that fash shouldn't be given a platform, including through regions in this game. Fash bashes are basically the most uncontroversial raids that exist, as is recognising people who put in the time to make sure their lives are difficult.

Politics are great when you're talking about what taxes should be applied where, not when you're discussing what people get to be people.

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Silver Commonwealth
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Posts: 1710
Founded: Aug 16, 2018
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Silver Commonwealth » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:15 am

Already voted in support with my WA nation.

Refuge Isle wrote:
Marxist Germany wrote:OOC: I personally believe that no raider should be Commended in the first place. The Condemn button exists for a reason. Innocent communist regions have just as much right to exist as do fascist regions or regions of neither ideology.

That's some pretty yikes stuff. Most of NS is united behind the idea that fash shouldn't be given a platform, including through regions in this game. Fash bashes are basically the most uncontroversial raids that exist, as is recognising people who put in the time to make sure their lives are difficult.

Politics are great when you're talking about what taxes should be applied where, not when you're discussing what people get to be people.

Seconded.
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Outer Sparta
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Posts: 10564
Founded: Dec 26, 2014
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Outer Sparta » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:07 am

Marxist Germany wrote:
Outer Sparta wrote:Would you do the reverse and commend fascist regions that raid communist ones?

OOC: I personally believe that no raider should be Commended in the first place. The Condemn button exists for a reason. Innocent communist regions have just as much right to exist as do fascist regions or regions of neither ideology.

Frankly them raiding fascist regions and getting them out is a good thing. Well it is a good thing unless you happen to be from those fascist regions.
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Honeydewistania
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Honeydewistania » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:18 pm

Marxist Germany wrote:
Outer Sparta wrote:Would you do the reverse and commend fascist regions that raid communist ones?

OOC: I personally believe that no raider should be Commended in the first place. The Condemn button exists for a reason. Innocent communist regions have just as much right to exist as do fascist regions or regions of neither ideology.

The most shocking part of this is that I’m not surprised at all that you’re making this statement.
Honeydewistania (Nation mostly does not represent real life views.)

Retired Regional Military Director of Lazarus
Posts OOC unless marked otherwise.
Ambassador to the WA: Benji Schubert Hepperle
Assistant to the Ambassador: Rekeil Wrigglesworth II
Official Coffee-fetcher and Masseuse: Jonathan Santos de Oliveira

The MT Army Warrior
Biggest acheivement: Spelling
GA#494 Regulating Desalination
GA#498 Ban on Forced Blood Sports
GA#502 Repeal "Freedom to Seek Medical Care II"
GA#507 Repeal "Promotion of Recycling"
GA#511 Ensuring Effectual Recycling

SC#315 Commend Vippertooth33
SC#320 Condemn Noahs Second Country
SC#324 Commend The Red Fleet

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Outer Sparta
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Posts: 10564
Founded: Dec 26, 2014
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Outer Sparta » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:23 pm

Honeydewistania wrote:
Marxist Germany wrote:OOC: I personally believe that no raider should be Commended in the first place. The Condemn button exists for a reason. Innocent communist regions have just as much right to exist as do fascist regions or regions of neither ideology.

The most shocking part of this is that I’m not surprised at all that you’re making this statement.

Fascist regions will agree with that statement.
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Marxist Germany
Minister
 
Posts: 2051
Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Corporate Bordello

Postby Marxist Germany » Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:23 am

Refuge Isle wrote:
Marxist Germany wrote:OOC: I personally believe that no raider should be Commended in the first place. The Condemn button exists for a reason. Innocent communist regions have just as much right to exist as do fascist regions or regions of neither ideology.

That's some pretty yikes stuff. Most of NS is united behind the idea that fash shouldn't be given a platform, including through regions in this game. Fash bashes are basically the most uncontroversial raids that exist, as is recognising people who put in the time to make sure their lives are difficult.

Politics are great when you're talking about what taxes should be applied where, not when you're discussing what people get to be people.

OOC: Funnily enough, the communists also dehumanise the dehumanisers, which makes them no different at all.

Outer Sparta wrote:
Honeydewistania wrote:The most shocking part of this is that I’m not surprised at all that you’re making this statement.

Fascist regions will agree with that statement.

Fascist regions will agree that [insert basic human function] is necessary, therefore, it must be banned.
Country represents RL views mostly. Not Marxist anymore.
Author of GA#461, GA#470, GA#477, GA#481, GA#486 (co-author), and SC#295

Ex-delegate of The United Federations; citizen and ex-Senior Senator of 10000 Islands | Gaming User#0721(Discord)
RP name: Germany
The National Factbook (WIP)
Ambassador Klaus Schmidt
Political Compass
Pro:Laissez-faire, Cultural Nationalism, Guns, Free speech, Christianity, United Ireland.
Anti:"Progressivism", Abortion, Transgenderism, Socialism, Interventionism, Mass-migration.

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Outer Sparta
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Posts: 10564
Founded: Dec 26, 2014
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Outer Sparta » Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:31 am

Marxist Germany wrote:
Refuge Isle wrote:That's some pretty yikes stuff. Most of NS is united behind the idea that fash shouldn't be given a platform, including through regions in this game. Fash bashes are basically the most uncontroversial raids that exist, as is recognising people who put in the time to make sure their lives are difficult.

Politics are great when you're talking about what taxes should be applied where, not when you're discussing what people get to be people.

OOC: Funnily enough, the communists also dehumanise the dehumanisers, which makes them no different at all.

Outer Sparta wrote:Fascist regions will agree with that statement.

Fascist regions will agree that [insert basic human function] is necessary, therefore, it must be banned.

No they'll agree with you on that sentiment that regions that raid fascist regions should not get commended, even if they're not communist.
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Secteria
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Posts: 1
Founded: Sep 14, 2020
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Secteria » Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:39 am

I am disgusted that we are commending a bunch of communists just because they RAID fascists.

Communists are just as bad as fascists, and raiding is terrible. We might as well commend The Black Hawks while we're at it

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Sanghyeok
Diplomat
 
Posts: 970
Founded: Dec 29, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby Sanghyeok » Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:48 am

Secteria wrote: Communists are just as bad as fascists, and raiding is terrible. We might as well commend The Black Hawks while we're at it


Please stop making the comparison that "x" is bad as fascism. Fascism, outside of literal slavery, is the worst possible government system.
我が祖国は、革命の赤旗を守る!世界の労働者万歳 統一戦線万歳 どんな時も その眩しさ 覚えていた


National News: Azur Deutschland Leaders Julienne and Sylvia warmly welcomed by Chairwoman Oomiya in visit, thaw in relations expected. The two nations have had tense relations over ideology, but "Pudding, Tea and Cosplay Diplomacy" of leaders appears to be working

Chairwoman Oomiya News: Chairwoman Oomiya currently hosting tea meeting, cosplay and doll party with Azur Deutschland Leaders Julienne and Sylvia at Chairwoman's Residence in Chu'o Tokai, Ministry of Foreign Affairs hopeful for breakthrough in diplomacy

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Sodoran Alesia
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 188
Founded: Jun 07, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sodoran Alesia » Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:40 am

Secteria wrote:I am disgusted that we are commending a bunch of communists just because they RAID fascists.

What's with the emphasis on raid? Fascism is a racist, hateful ideology, de-platforming it on NS sounds like a pretty good thing to me. You got any better suggestions other than freeze peach or something just as nonsensical?
Communists are just as bad as fascists, and raiding is terrible. We might as well commend The Black Hawks while we're at it


How are communists just as bad as fascists? Raiding in IC is considered bad yes, but raiding fash pushes them down and stops them from building a platform. Again, just what do you want us to do then? Let fascism fester? Also, no one said anything about commending The Black Hawks, maybe try to stay on topic and read the context of the proposal?

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Outer Sparta
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Posts: 10564
Founded: Dec 26, 2014
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Outer Sparta » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:25 pm

Secteria wrote:I am disgusted that we are commending a bunch of communists just because they RAID fascists.

Communists are just as bad as fascists, and raiding is terrible. We might as well commend The Black Hawks while we're at it

Why go and make it sound like that raiding fascist regions is a bad thing? If TRF weren't communist, you probably still won't want to commend them.
social democracy, environmental protection, universal healthcare, free college, social equality, LGBT, pro-choice,
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SherpDaWerp
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Founded: Mar 02, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby SherpDaWerp » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:09 pm

The Security Council resolution Commend The Red Fleet was passed 11,237 votes to 2,667.

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Caelapes
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1543
Founded: Apr 30, 2007
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Caelapes » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:17 pm

Glad to see that, despite my retirement as Secretary-General, the World Assembly is still firmly in the grasp of Communists.

Workers and oppressed people of all NationStates, unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains!
    
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Sanghyeok
Diplomat
 
Posts: 970
Founded: Dec 29, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby Sanghyeok » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:24 pm

Caelapes wrote:Glad to see that, despite my retirement as Secretary-General, the World Assembly is still firmly in the grasp of Communists.

Workers and oppressed people of all NationStates, unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains!


The Internationale/Shall be realized.
我が祖国は、革命の赤旗を守る!世界の労働者万歳 統一戦線万歳 どんな時も その眩しさ 覚えていた


National News: Azur Deutschland Leaders Julienne and Sylvia warmly welcomed by Chairwoman Oomiya in visit, thaw in relations expected. The two nations have had tense relations over ideology, but "Pudding, Tea and Cosplay Diplomacy" of leaders appears to be working

Chairwoman Oomiya News: Chairwoman Oomiya currently hosting tea meeting, cosplay and doll party with Azur Deutschland Leaders Julienne and Sylvia at Chairwoman's Residence in Chu'o Tokai, Ministry of Foreign Affairs hopeful for breakthrough in diplomacy

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Honeydewistania
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1720
Founded: Jun 09, 2017
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Honeydewistania » Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:21 am

Caelapes wrote:Glad to see that, despite my retirement as Secretary-General, the World Assembly is still firmly in the grasp of Communists.

Workers and oppressed people of all NationStates, unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains!

Pax ignescens, death to fascism!

Anyways seeing this passed by a higher margin than the original despite the repeal is quite the icing on the cake. Everyone loves TRF!
Honeydewistania (Nation mostly does not represent real life views.)

Retired Regional Military Director of Lazarus
Posts OOC unless marked otherwise.
Ambassador to the WA: Benji Schubert Hepperle
Assistant to the Ambassador: Rekeil Wrigglesworth II
Official Coffee-fetcher and Masseuse: Jonathan Santos de Oliveira

The MT Army Warrior
Biggest acheivement: Spelling
GA#494 Regulating Desalination
GA#498 Ban on Forced Blood Sports
GA#502 Repeal "Freedom to Seek Medical Care II"
GA#507 Repeal "Promotion of Recycling"
GA#511 Ensuring Effectual Recycling

SC#315 Commend Vippertooth33
SC#320 Condemn Noahs Second Country
SC#324 Commend The Red Fleet

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