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[DRAFT] Commend Auralia

A chamber dedicated to the dissemination of inter-regional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary.

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United Massachusetts
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Founded: Jan 17, 2016
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Postby United Massachusetts » Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:25 pm

New Bremerton wrote:
Sciongrad wrote:I supported this until his pro-death politics came to light. His repeal efforts directly challenge the official position of the church, which is that the death penalty is never admissible under any circumstance.


Whose church? Sciongrad's church, UM's church, Auralia's church or some RL church?

Auralia and I are Catholic.
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

Fmr. WA Affairs Minister, The East Pacific
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

President, Right to Life
Author/Co-author: 7 GA, 2 SC resolutions

Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
Stat Crux dum volvitur orbis
Note: I don't have Discord access for now; tg me instead.

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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:13 am

To the above: Sciongrad is, I believe, referencing the Catholic Church's position that state-sanctioned judicial murder ought be prohibited in all circumstances.

Lord Dominator wrote:Regardless of my personal beliefs, citing 'there's precedent' by itself as an argument isn't the best argument one can make. Precedent is both mutable and non-binding. Citing the specific cases and why they apply in this one however, is much better,

I mean, argumentatively, time and place should have little moral bearing if we believe that morality is in fact universalisable. What would be even better would be to cite the specific case, then use adapted argumentation to justify why in this situation too we should take some action. Because things were done in the past does not justify their being done in the present.
Last edited by Imperium Anglorum on Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Lord Dominator
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Postby Lord Dominator » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:30 am

Imperium Anglorum wrote:To the above: Sciongrad is, I believe, referencing the Catholic Church's position that state-sanctioned judicial murder ought be prohibited in all circumstances.

Lord Dominator wrote:Regardless of my personal beliefs, citing 'there's precedent' by itself as an argument isn't the best argument one can make. Precedent is both mutable and non-binding. Citing the specific cases and why they apply in this one however, is much better,

I mean, argumentatively, time and place should have little moral bearing if we believe that morality is in fact universalisable. What would be even better would be to cite the specific case, then use adapted argumentation to justify why in this situation too we should take some action. Because things were done in the past does not justify their being done in the present.

I'm pretty sure that's what I was saying, lol
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Bears Armed
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Postby Bears Armed » Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:33 am

Last edited by Bears Armed on Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Confederated Clans of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152.

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United Massachusetts
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Postby United Massachusetts » Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:15 pm

Bears Armed wrote:
Co-authored by:
St Thomas Aquinas
Saint Augustine of Hippo
St Anselm

:eyebrow:
"Hr'rmm..."

;)
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

Fmr. WA Affairs Minister, The East Pacific
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

President, Right to Life
Author/Co-author: 7 GA, 2 SC resolutions

Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
Stat Crux dum volvitur orbis
Note: I don't have Discord access for now; tg me instead.

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Aclion
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Postby Aclion » Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:22 pm

Are those your puppets? I hope not :/
A free society rests on four boxes: The soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the ammo box.
XKI: Recruiter, TITO Knight
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Oatland: Caesar, Cartographer

It is the citizen's duty to understand which box to use, and when.

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United Massachusetts
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Postby United Massachusetts » Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:27 pm

Aclion wrote:Are those your puppets? I hope not :/

There is precedent for this type of thing:
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=1
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

Fmr. WA Affairs Minister, The East Pacific
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

President, Right to Life
Author/Co-author: 7 GA, 2 SC resolutions

Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
Stat Crux dum volvitur orbis
Note: I don't have Discord access for now; tg me instead.

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Aclion
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Postby Aclion » Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:48 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:
Aclion wrote:Are those your puppets? I hope not :/

There is precedent for this type of thing:
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=1

*grumble grumble*
A free society rests on four boxes: The soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the ammo box.
XKI: Recruiter, TITO Knight
TEP: WA Executive Staff member
Forest: Cartographer
Oatland: Caesar, Cartographer

It is the citizen's duty to understand which box to use, and when.

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Bears Armed
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Postby Bears Armed » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:21 am

United Massachusetts wrote:
Aclion wrote:Are those your puppets? I hope not :/

There is precedent for this type of thing:
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=1

OOC
In that case the co-author listed had actually been responsible for drafting & sponsoring the original version, which became 'historical resolution' #148, whereas Bears Armed Mission was responsible for the GA's expanded version. What did your 'co-authors' separately contribute in this case?
The Confederated Clans of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152.

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Erithaca
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Postby Erithaca » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:26 am

Support. Auralia's GA resolutions and helpful tools have helped the NS community greatly, despite his attempt at self commendation.

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Frisbeeteria
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Postby Frisbeeteria » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:45 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:
Aclion wrote:Are those your puppets? I hope not :/

There is precedent for this type of thing:
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=1
Bears Armed wrote:In that case the co-author listed had actually been responsible for drafting & sponsoring the original version, which became 'historical resolution' #148, whereas Bears Armed Mission was responsible for the GA's expanded version.

The precedent doesn't apply. Your three "co-authors" are your brand new puppets made specifically as ... flavor text, I suppose. The argument made by Bears Armed was an actual co-author credit..

I'm applying this ruling sometime in the next day or so. The author can remove it before then, or leave it and get a SC proposal warning.

Sedgistan wrote:Bumping this thread up to say that the co-authorship line in a proposal is to list co-authors (up to a reasonable maximum of three) - nothing else. It is not a place to list supporters, assistants with campaigning, or to thank people. If you attempt any of the latter, your proposal will be deleted.

If you want to name-check someone for helping, you can use the proposal thread you post on the forums - or even just TG them your thanks.

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United Massachusetts
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Postby United Massachusetts » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:53 pm

Frisbeeteria wrote:
United Massachusetts wrote:There is precedent for this type of thing:
https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=1
Bears Armed wrote:In that case the co-author listed had actually been responsible for drafting & sponsoring the original version, which became 'historical resolution' #148, whereas Bears Armed Mission was responsible for the GA's expanded version.

The precedent doesn't apply. Your three "co-authors" are your brand new puppets made specifically as ... flavor text, I suppose. The argument made by Bears Armed was an actual co-author credit..

I'm applying this ruling sometime in the next day or so. The author can remove it before then, or leave it and get a SC proposal warning.

Sedgistan wrote:Bumping this thread up to say that the co-authorship line in a proposal is to list co-authors (up to a reasonable maximum of three) - nothing else. It is not a place to list supporters, assistants with campaigning, or to thank people. If you attempt any of the latter, your proposal will be deleted.

If you want to name-check someone for helping, you can use the proposal thread you post on the forums - or even just TG them your thanks.

OK. My apologies. I was led to believe by another that this was OK. Will remove.
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

Fmr. WA Affairs Minister, The East Pacific
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

President, Right to Life
Author/Co-author: 7 GA, 2 SC resolutions

Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
Stat Crux dum volvitur orbis
Note: I don't have Discord access for now; tg me instead.

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United Massachusetts
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Postby United Massachusetts » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:27 pm

Also reviving this.
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

Fmr. WA Affairs Minister, The East Pacific
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

President, Right to Life
Author/Co-author: 7 GA, 2 SC resolutions

Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
Stat Crux dum volvitur orbis
Note: I don't have Discord access for now; tg me instead.

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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:33 am

And Auralia is still a WA cheat who tried to game this Security Council. Like any other cheat they deserve zero recognition by this body.
Last edited by Bhang Bhang Duc on Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Eumaeus
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Postby Eumaeus » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:56 am

Edit: Please ignore this post, I don't know what I'm talking about.

At the risk of sounding like a hypocrite, and keep in mind I'm bringing it because someone else would have anyways: didn't Auralia try and fail to coup a UCR less than a month ago? As a raider I thought it was a good op even though it eventually failed, but as a SC member it seems to me like this is the sort of thing that will cause problems for a commendation further down the line.

I'll edit this post to include feedback on the text of the draft in a few hours.
Last edited by Eumaeus on Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:03 am

Eumaeus wrote:At the risk of sounding like a hypocrite, and keep in mind I'm bringing it because someone else would have anyways: didn't Auralia try and fail to coup a UCR less than a month ago? As a raider I thought it was a good op even though it eventually failed, but as a SC member it seems to me like this is the sort of thing that will cause problems for a commendation further down the line.

I'll edit this post to include feedback on the text of the draft in a few hours.

...

Auralia the nation, not Auralia the region...
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

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Current President of The NCR: Aaron Kimball.
Current NCR Ambassador to The World Assembly: Colonel James Hsu, NCR Army (Ret.)
.

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Eumaeus
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Postby Eumaeus » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:40 am

The New California Republic wrote:
Eumaeus wrote:At the risk of sounding like a hypocrite, and keep in mind I'm bringing it because someone else would have anyways: didn't Auralia try and fail to coup a UCR less than a month ago? As a raider I thought it was a good op even though it eventually failed, but as a SC member it seems to me like this is the sort of thing that will cause problems for a commendation further down the line.

I'll edit this post to include feedback on the text of the draft in a few hours.

...

Auralia the nation, not Auralia the region...

I wrote out a whole post that was like "what are you talking about, the post I linked to clearly said it was the region, yadda yadda" then I realized I had been and was in the process of being an idiot. Just goes to show why I shouldn't post before I have my morning coffee. :blush:

Comment rescinded; I'll still post feedback when I have time to... you know... read the proposal. Like I should have done before commenting in the first place. Thank you for correcting me.
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United Massachusetts
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Postby United Massachusetts » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:59 pm

Barring objection, this will be submitted when I get back from my travels in a couple days.
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

Fmr. WA Affairs Minister, The East Pacific
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

President, Right to Life
Author/Co-author: 7 GA, 2 SC resolutions

Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
Stat Crux dum volvitur orbis
Note: I don't have Discord access for now; tg me instead.

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Kranostav
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Postby Kranostav » Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:29 pm

Im actually quite curious as to why you included
Disapproving of Auralia’s attempt to self-commend, an unfortunate lapse in judgement from their particularly upright delegation for which they have since apologized and repented profusely,

You are inadvertently adding fuel to the anti-commend fire by admitting that Auralia did something that can get people banned from the WA and effectively blacklisted from authorship.
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Praeceps
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Postby Praeceps » Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:41 pm

Is there any way we could, like, I don't know, not do this again?

We just repeated the whole "Commend TRR" proposal, we're going to repeat "Commend Auralia"? Couldn't we get a break or something before revisiting history?

There's a lot of emphasis on the attempted self-commendation through a multi being a singular mistake. Maybe it's just me, but it sounds like there would be more than one mistake to arrive at self-commendation with a multi.
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Lord Dominator
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Postby Lord Dominator » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:23 am

Kranostav wrote:Im actually quite curious as to why you included
Disapproving of Auralia’s attempt to self-commend, an unfortunate lapse in judgement from their particularly upright delegation for which they have since apologized and repented profusely,

You are inadvertently adding fuel to the anti-commend fire by admitting that Auralia did something that can get people banned from the WA and effectively blacklisted from authorship.

If you read back in the thread, that was actually added per request from those disliking of said attempt, and would in theory increase support.

Not sure what the 'effectively blacklisted from authorship' is about however.
Praeceps wrote:Is there any way we could, like, I don't know, not do this again?

This draft by UM hasn't been submitted before to my knowledge, and Auralia's self-attempt was years ago.

Edit: correction, it was once before.
We just repeated the whole "Commend TRR" proposal, we're going to repeat "Commend Auralia"? Couldn't we get a break or something before revisiting history?

C&Cs usually cover history, not sure what else they would cover.
There's a lot of emphasis on the attempted self-commendation through a multi being a singular mistake. Maybe it's just me, but it sounds like there would be more than one mistake to arrive at self-commendation with a multi.

There'd be up to 2, depending on how one qualifies a self-commend, seeing as it is not strictly illegal or normally done by people who could otherwise warrant one.
Last edited by Lord Dominator on Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Armaros
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Postby Armaros » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:37 am

On the one hand, it was years ago and one can regret mistakes made so long ago.

That said, commended nations are supposed to be outstanding examples for all. Trying to self commend through cheating does not sound like a very good example. Therefore, I am opposed to this proposal.
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United Massachusetts
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Postby United Massachusetts » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:07 am

Armaros wrote:On the one hand, it was years ago and one can regret mistakes made so long ago.

That said, commended nations are supposed to be outstanding examples for all. Trying to self commend through cheating does not sound like a very good example. Therefore, I am opposed to this proposal.

I would argue that Auralia has more than made up for it. He is an example that people can regret mistakes, make changes, and serve the community in astounding ways. And Auralia has, to clarify, served the community in astounding ways.

If anything, his repentance should be an argument for commendation. He learned his ways. When I telegrammed Auralia asking if he wanted this, his response, which sadly is now deleted from my inbox, was one of intense remorse.
Last edited by United Massachusetts on Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

Fmr. WA Affairs Minister, The East Pacific
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

President, Right to Life
Author/Co-author: 7 GA, 2 SC resolutions

Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
Stat Crux dum volvitur orbis
Note: I don't have Discord access for now; tg me instead.

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Wallenburg
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Postby Wallenburg » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:20 am

United Massachusetts wrote:Barring objection, this will be submitted when I get back from my travels in a couple days.

I object, then. Now you can't submit it!
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Lord Dominator
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Postby Lord Dominator » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:18 am

Wallenburg wrote:
United Massachusetts wrote:Barring objection, this will be submitted when I get back from my travels in a couple days.

I object, then. Now you can't submit it!

I object to your objection!
Osiris Vizier of WA AffairsDee Vytherov-SkollvaldrDeputy Forest KeeperLieutenant in The Black HawksWA Minister of Lazarus

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