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[Draft] Condemn Koem Kab

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Eumaeus
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Postby Eumaeus » Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:10 pm

I was thinking about this in the shower earlier, and think that you may be able to spin it as some sort of financial resource, like a bond or stock or something. Otherwise I think I would go with the artifacts or intelligence report angle.
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Lord Dominator
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Postby Lord Dominator » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:32 am

The artifacts angle I was thinking of (and hopefully will have full time to suggestedit soon), is based on the idea that 'artifacts' irl are cultural things that can't exactly be created or duplicated, but can be destroyed, and are found with no warning even when looking.
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Borovan entered the region as he
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Postby Borovan entered the region as he » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:27 pm

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Topid
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Postby Topid » Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:15 am

I am also surprised 'cards' is treated differently than 'password' 'eject' 'regional message board' etc. With the news post at the end of last year that cards are now a "permanent feature" of NS, I would think that term would fall right into: "any term included within NationStates the game - eg. passwords, World Factbook Entries, founders, eject, 'black helicopters transporting nations between regions' - legal (see here, here, here, here and here)"

I can see how terms like "card farming" and the likes are out just like "endorsement tarting" but we all have a button on our nation page for cards, so it is not clear to me why "card" by itself that's not considered a term within NationStates the game.
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Eumaeus
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Postby Eumaeus » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:48 am

Topid wrote:I am also surprised 'cards' is treated differently than 'password' 'eject' 'regional message board' etc. With the news post at the end of last year that cards are now a "permanent feature" of NS, I would think that term would fall right into: "any term included within NationStates the game - eg. passwords, World Factbook Entries, founders, eject, 'black helicopters transporting nations between regions' - legal (see here, here, here, here and here)"

I can see how terms like "card farming" and the likes are out just like "endorsement tarting" but we all have a button on our nation page for cards, so it is not clear to me why "card" by itself that's not considered a term within NationStates the game.

I would actually like a bit more explanation on this ruling as well.

The Compendium says "We've written the following rubric to help determine whether terms fit within Rule 4 or not", with the rubric reading:
1. Is the term something that could be applied to real-world nations. If yes, then fine. If no, see #2.
2. Is the term something that could be applied to the NationStates world? If yes, see point 3, if no, then what on earth are you writing about?
3. Is the term referring to NationStates as a game, or to the people behind the nations? If yes, it's not acceptable. If no, it's fine.

I would say that the term "cards" pretty clearly fails #1, so we have to see #2.

According to Ardchoille, speaking on behalf of God (hallowed be her name):
Ardchoille wrote:SC resolutions can legally recognise that some things happen in the NS Multiverse that don't happen in the real world. That's why it's legal to use in SC proposals the terms that the game uses on nation or region pages -- so passwords get a guernsey, and so do WFEs and Founders.

The above quote is one of the explanations for the Compendium's statement:
Any term included within NationStates the game - eg. passwords, World Factbook Entries, founders, eject, 'black helicopters transporting nations between regions' - legal...

The term "Cards" appears on each nation's page and based off of a reading of these sources it seems like it must be legal. Reading through previous mod decisions on this rule though, there seem to be a lot of caveats that are not stated in the Compendium that kind of complicate ruling on this matter, which is why I'm choosing to ask for an explanation rather than just saying "I disagree".

#3 specifically says "Is the term referring to NationStates as a game", and seeing as trading cards is a minigame within the larger game, treating Cards as implying NationStates itself is a game doesn't really make much sense.

My overall point is that I can understand how a mod would come to the conclusion that the term "Cards" is illegal, but seeing as this ruling seemingly contradicts a(n admittedly vague) ruling set out in the Compendium of Mod Rulings, I would appreciate a more in-depth explanation.
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Bormiar
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Postby Bormiar » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:59 pm

Thank you everyone above who has provided suggestions. I have been considering them as they come up and will soon be able to provide replies. What particularly caught my attention though is Topid and Eumaeus’ comments. While I would like to provide a more in-depth reply, I’d like to say that even if card is legal could I still write the proposal in a way that shows off Koem’s accomplishments? As Topid said, phrases like “card farming” would not be allowed, so I could only really get away with the hoarding section. That’s generally my thoughts.
Last edited by Bormiar on Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Bormiar
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Postby Bormiar » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:02 am

Here's hopefully-legal draft two.

Still wordy as hell, but I hope it's legal now. I chose the "intelligence dossier" one because I was unsure of how to implement the other ideas.

Thanks for your time reading this, and your incredible feedback and patience!

The Security Council,

NOTING that many nations collect intelligence dossiers of other nations, which include: the nation’s motto, classification, name, population, region, flag, top world census rankings, world assembly authorships, and recognition by this council,

FURTHER NOTING that every intelligence dossier is identical, and it is pointless to collect more than one of a single nation. Rather, it is to the detriment of other nation’s intelligence programs to have more than one of this limited resource,

AWARE of the difficulties spies must overcome in order to collect intelligence on many nations, with the intelligence dossiers of most prominent nations being owned by less than 100 nations,

DEFINING "bank" as the standard currency by which nations trade dossiers.

SHOCKED by Koem Kab’s unnecessary hoarding of popular dossiers, of which most notably:
1. Koem Kab’s unwillingness to sell popular dossiers of which it has the greatest number in the world. These dossiers include intelligence on Frisbeeteria, Reploid Productions, Euroslavia, Sanctaria, Katganistan, Knootoss, NewTexas, Zwangzug, Mousebumples, Transnapastain, Lamoni, Aleisyr, Ardchoille, Kindjal, Pogaria, Kyrusia, Aurelia, Glen-Rhodes, Christian Democrats, Menta Lee-Il, Old Tyrannia, Farnhamia, Sunset, Topid, McMasterdonia, Separatist Peoples, The Bruce, Cogitation, Nation of Quebec, Pythagosaurus, The Stalker, The Grim Reaper, Caelapes, Imperium Anglorum, Gnejs, Caracasus, Frieden-und Freudenland, and Candlewhisper Archive, among many others. This unwillingness to trade means that many nations will be unable to receive a dossier on many important nations.
2. Koem Kab’s active attempts at being the sole owner of the dossier of NERVUN, of which Koem Kab has 43 dossiers.
3. Koem Kab’s hoarding of the artificially high-valued dossier of Queen Yuno. Koem Kab has 10 of these dossiers.
4. Koem Kab’s complete unwillingness to sell dossiers unless the buyer is willing to meet unreasonably high prices, and the lack of other sellers and owners due to Koem Kab’s hoarding,

AWARE of the affects of hoarding, which prevents nations from gaining intelligence on many prominent nations,

DISGUSTED at the methods used in developing such an abnormally large and high-valued collection of dossiers, of which includes:
1. Intentionally avoiding the fees required to increase dossier collection capacity, which is imposed upon all nations. Unwillingness or inability to pay for a larger capacity results in the inability to be given dossiers from other nations, but it does not prevent nations from buying and selling dossiers. Koem Kab circumvents these limits by seizing control of another nation, Greatest Chernobyl, and receiving gifts on that nation. Then, Koem Kab buys the gifts given to Greatest chernobyl, thus fooling the system.
2. Blatantly increasing the value of useless dossiers of nations such as International Organization, Ortsync, Griet, Divine Will VII, Vacuole, The Home of Hope, Aummunati0n, Neutral Yugoslavia, Death Defiance 17, The CLU Empire, Moorwhyne, Sleepwalker, Jidal, Balmains, Westlandium, The Automobile Industry, and many more. This involves selling the dossier to a nation controlled by Koem Kab for a high price, which raises the value and thus the value of the collection. While done in smaller chunks it’s a transfer of bank between two nations, but with amounts of bank in the hundreds, it causes Koem Kabs collection of dossiers to appear to be worth thousands more than than it actually should be, thus deceiving the viewer and increasing Koem Kabs ranking internationally.
3. Abusing Koem Kab’s massive amount of bank in order to buy low-selling dossiers. This can be done by placing a bid for the dossier at a price slightly above the market value, then placing another bid for an equal amount, in order to prevent "dropping". This is a tactic few nations can afford, and often ends the bidding war, which prevents the naive seller from getting a fair amount of bank for the dossier,

COGNIZANT of the affects of value-increasing, which significantly altar the world rankings for highest valued collections, and highest valued dossiers,

AWARE of the methods Koem Kab uses that are widely considered petty for nations with large collections, which includes bank transfer stealing and bidding 0.01 bank above the next highest bid,

FURTHER AWARE that Koem Kab has contributed to the cost increase. This has been done because the demand for popular dossiers has not been met by the supply, so nations with many identical dossiers can sell much higher than it’s worth. This cost increase has increased difficulty of owning a popular dossier for the less well-off, and ensured that most popular dossiers will go to Koem Kab and other rich collectors, to the detriment of poorer nations.

HOPING that the security council will recognize this hoarding and the methods used in bring this collection to be the largest in the world,

Hereby condemns Koem Kab
Last edited by Bormiar on Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:04 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Praeceps
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Postby Praeceps » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:21 am

This looks really good at how you have addressed Rule 4. I'm sure Eumaeus or BBD will be along shortly to do a grammar check but a few comments on the substance.

FURTHER NOTING that every intelligence dossier is identical, and it is pointless to collect more than one of a single nation. Rather, it is to the detriment of other nation’s intelligence programs to have more than one of this limited resource,


It's not pointless to collect more than one card of a single nation—it can help increase your deck value.

3. Abusing Koem Kab’s massive amount of bank in order to buy low-selling dossiers. This can be done by placing a bid for the dossier at a price slightly above the market value, then placing another bid for an equal amount, in order to prevent "dropping". This is a tactic few nations can afford, and often ends the bidding war, which prevents the naive seller from getting a fair amount of bank for the dossier,


I think you need more details on this one as it stands, it is still unclear to me. I think the term dropping could also be clarified.

FURTHER AWARE that Koem Kab has contributed to the cost increase. This has been done because the demand for popular dossiers has not been met by the supply, so nations with many identical dossiers can sell much higher than it’s worth. This cost increase has increased difficulty of owning a popular dossier for the less well-off, and ensured that most popular dossiers will go to Koem Kab and other rich collectors, to the detriment of poorer nations.


I think inflation would be a better word here than cost increase.

EDIT: Also, I forgot to mention, it would be a good idea to mention in a R4 compliant way about ex-nations and how the dossiers on them can no longer be found (barring finding them while an auction for the card is ongoing), hoarding those cards is potentially more dangerous as if all the holders of that card CTE, it will no longer be possible to obtain that card.
Last edited by Praeceps on Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Apparently simultaneously a Ravenclaw puppet, a NPO plant, and a Warden spy. I had no idea I was that good. Depending on who you ask, my aliases include Krulltopia.

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Bormiar
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Postby Bormiar » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:43 am

As I did in the last draft, I will, of course, include your suggestions, Praeceps. Do you intend on it being the famous CTE legs, like Soops, or ones that have CTE'd during S1, like Kandy, CG, Mall, Auralia, etc?

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