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[PASSED] Condemn Durkadurkiranistan II

A chamber dedicated to the dissemination of inter-regional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary.

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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Founded: Dec 17, 2003
Democratic Socialists

Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:04 pm

Well done, will be voting in favour.
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Pierconium wrote:I see Funk as an opportunistic manipulator that utilises the means available to him to reach his goals. In other words, a nation after my own heart.

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Creslonia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Creslonia » Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:48 am

"Let it be known that the Republic of Creslonia will be voting for this resolution."
- Alexander Finch, Minister of Foreign Affairs
Last edited by Creslonia on Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Borovan entered the region as he
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Borovan entered the region as he » Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:12 am

I AMM LIEK SO DRRRUNKK AND I AM BE votoiong in favvvor off duh rrrsolutftion
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Fulford
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Founded: May 03, 2019
Father Knows Best State

Postby Fulford » Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:42 am

Fulford has a message from the Supreme Leader stating that we will be voting in favour of this resolution.

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United States of Americanas
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Founded: Jan 23, 2017
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby United States of Americanas » Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:54 am

Theocracy? No protest? Capital and corporal punishment? Even their policies are condemnable!

I strongly favor condemnation of the nation on the public stage!
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Barret 50Cal
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Founded: Apr 03, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Why Condemn Them?

Postby Barret 50Cal » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:24 am

This nation has one of the highest amounts of foreign aid given out.

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Eumaeus
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Founded: Jan 27, 2018
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Eumaeus » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:05 am

Barret 50Cal wrote:This nation has one of the highest amounts of foreign aid given out.

Did you not read the proposal? Its arguments are explained in great detail.
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Centrum Terrae
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Founded: Apr 22, 2019
New York Times Democracy

Postby Centrum Terrae » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:44 am

Durkadurkiranistan II has already been condemned, what's the point of condemning him again?

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Eumaeus
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Eumaeus » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:14 am

Centrum Terrae wrote:Durkadurkiranistan II has already been condemned, what's the point of condemning him again?

As the author states in the OP, this proposal is intended to be a replace and repeal, with the goal of updating the original Condemnation (which will be 10 years old this coming October).
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Raiding HistorySecurity CouncilDear NativesTWP Raid

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Praeceps
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Praeceps » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:28 am

Eumaeus wrote:
Centrum Terrae wrote:Durkadurkiranistan II has already been condemned, what's the point of condemning him again?

As the author states in the OP, this proposal is intended to be a replace and repeal, with the goal of updating the original Condemnation (which will be 10 years old this coming October).

The author has stated off-site they are no longer seeking to repeal the original condemnation.
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Marilyn Manson Freaks
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Posts: 693
Founded: Jul 05, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Marilyn Manson Freaks » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:14 am

Praeceps wrote:
Eumaeus wrote:As the author states in the OP, this proposal is intended to be a replace and repeal, with the goal of updating the original Condemnation (which will be 10 years old this coming October).

The author has stated off-site they are no longer seeking to repeal the original condemnation.


Correct. Durk's first condemnation is historically important.
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Eumaeus
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Eumaeus » Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:27 pm

Praeceps wrote:The author has stated off-site they are no longer seeking to repeal the original condemnation.

Marilyn Manson Freaks wrote:Correct. Durk's first condemnation is historically important.

Thank you for the clarification. The OP still states that there is an intention to repeal it should this pass.

Regardless, the answer to the question I was answering is still updating the original Condemnation, which is almost 10 years out of date.
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North East Somerset
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Founded: Jun 11, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Postby North East Somerset » Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:39 pm

Marilyn Manson Freaks wrote:a starchy but pleasant and skilled defender in the Alliance Defense Network (ADN) before they started down a dark and winding path of interregional infamy.


It's always the starchy ones that go sour.

Durk is a player of considerable ability. Fully deserved.
Last edited by North East Somerset on Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Gagium
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Founded: Apr 08, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gagium » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:36 pm

Against, this guy is already condemned and this seems to be nothing more than a badge grab.

Also, would referring to the nation as a “monstrous tyrant” be a violation? This seems to very clearly be referring to the player.
Last edited by Gagium on Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
E

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Marilyn Manson Freaks
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Marilyn Manson Freaks » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:59 pm

Gagium wrote:Against, this guy is already condemned and this seems to be nothing more than a badge grab.

Also, would referring to the nation as a “monstrous tyrant” be a violation? This seems to very clearly be referring to the player.


His current condemnation mentions only one thing he's done, it's not a badge grab.

Also, no, it isn't very clearly referring to the player. Nations can be tyrannical.
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Holy Roman Empires2
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Founded: Jan 12, 2019
Iron Fist Consumerists

Not much....

Postby Holy Roman Empires2 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:59 pm

To be honest, looking at how the vote is going, this post isnt necessary. However, I feel I must post. The proposal is well worded, unlike the kings and emperors proposal. I, for one enjoy not being bombarded by w.a camping tgs, so thanks for that at the very least.

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Paratan
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Posts: 23
Founded: Apr 07, 2019
New York Times Democracy

Postby Paratan » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:11 pm

Marilyn Manson Freaks wrote:
Gagium wrote:Against, this guy is already condemned and this seems to be nothing more than a badge grab.

Also, would referring to the nation as a “monstrous tyrant” be a violation? This seems to very clearly be referring to the player.


His current condemnation mentions only one thing he's done, it's not a badge grab.

Also, no, it isn't very clearly referring to the player. Nations can be tyrannical.


But can nations be tyrants? No. They can only be tyrannical.
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Marilyn Manson Freaks
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Founded: Jul 05, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Marilyn Manson Freaks » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:03 pm

Paratan wrote:
Marilyn Manson Freaks wrote:
His current condemnation mentions only one thing he's done, it's not a badge grab.

Also, no, it isn't very clearly referring to the player. Nations can be tyrannical.


But can nations be tyrants? No. They can only be tyrannical.


noun: tyrant; plural noun: tyrants
1. a cruel and oppressive ruler.
"the tyrant was deposed by popular demonstrations"
synonyms: dictator, despot, autocrat, absolute ruler, authoritarian, oppressor


Can a nation not be an oppressor, can a nation not be authoritarian? Tyrant can apply to nations, but isn't usually that way. Since we're in a polsim, it can.
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Gagium
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Founded: Apr 08, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gagium » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:15 pm

Marilyn Manson Freaks wrote:
Paratan wrote:
But can nations be tyrants? No. They can only be tyrannical.


noun: tyrant; plural noun: tyrants
1. a cruel and oppressive ruler.
"the tyrant was deposed by popular demonstrations"
synonyms: dictator, despot, autocrat, absolute ruler, authoritarian, oppressor


Can a nation not be an oppressor, can a nation not be authoritarian? Tyrant can apply to nations, but isn't usually that way. Since we're in a polsim, it can.

The key word in that definition is 'ruler'. Ruler is defined as 'a person exercising government or dominion'...or as the tool.
E

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Eumaeus
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Eumaeus » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:57 pm

Gagium wrote:
Marilyn Manson Freaks wrote:


Can a nation not be an oppressor, can a nation not be authoritarian? Tyrant can apply to nations, but isn't usually that way. Since we're in a polsim, it can.

The key word in that definition is 'ruler'. Ruler is defined as 'a person exercising government or dominion'...or as the tool.

While I am interested in getting a moderator opinion on this matter, this line of debate is just arguing minutiae. Different wordings of the definition will imply different things.

Additionally, such a ruling would be a massive departure from typical Security Council practice. The SC has always allowed authors to refer to nations in a manner more befitting of a person than of a country, as long as it was not especially explicit. Take this clause from the recent Condemn Pierconium:
Further Noting that Pierconium has served in various positions with the governing body of The Pacific, known as the New Pacific Order, since that body's early history starting in 2004. These positions include the titles of Chief Justice of the High Court, Governor, Senator, Regent, and Emperor...

Admittedly, it could be debated that these are just titles given to nations. A better example is this quote from Commend Severisen:
Understanding that, as a native of the region of Catholic, they were a long-term resident for those fourteen years.

Or, from Condemn Darkesia:
Surprised by the fact that Darkesia... served as a spy for the first Invaders region.

The last time I checked, an entire country can't be a spy.

New rulings do not apply to old resolutions, so a ruling that this phrasing violates Rule 4b would not require repealing any of the previous resolutions I have cited. However, my point is that this would be a massive change in how authors can legally speak about a nation, and in my opinion would require more explicit warning in the Security Council rules.
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Lemmingtopias
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Founded: Apr 03, 2007
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Lemmingtopias » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:40 pm

Considering this only concerns the GCRs, and at least four of the GCR Delegates have voted against, I don't think I can support it.


It makes a nice read though and I wish you the best of luck.
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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Founded: Dec 17, 2003
Democratic Socialists

Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:26 am

Anyway it’s passed so congrats MMF on a well written resolution.
Former Delegate and Guardian of The West Pacific. TWP's Former Minister for World Assembly Affairs

The West Pacific's Official Welshman, Astronomer and Old Fart

Pierconium wrote:I see Funk as an opportunistic manipulator that utilises the means available to him to reach his goals. In other words, a nation after my own heart.

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Marilyn Manson Freaks
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Posts: 693
Founded: Jul 05, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Marilyn Manson Freaks » Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:52 pm

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Anyway it’s passed so congrats MMF on a well written resolution.


Thanks, BBD.
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Kuriko
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Founded: Oct 31, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Kuriko » Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:57 pm

Condemn Durkadurkiranistan II was passed 8,459 votes to 5,594.
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RiderSyl
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Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Mother Knows Best State

Postby RiderSyl » Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:36 pm

Congrats to Manson on another well-written C&C. Now let's liberate Durk too.
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