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[DRAFT] Repeal "Liberate Greece"

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Crump
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[DRAFT] Repeal "Liberate Greece"

Postby Crump » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:50 am

Repeal “Liberate Greece”

Category: Repeal | Target: SC #29 | Proposed By: Crump


The Security Council,

Acknowledging that Security Council Resolution #29 was written for the purposes of removing delegate-imposed boundaries that were inhibiting Greece’s natives from counter-attacking the Persian Empire’s forces who were in control of the region at the time.

Further Acknowledging that the only reason the Persian Empire’s forces were able to impose boundries was because of the chronic inactivity of the former founder, Yauna, whose government dissolved and allowed the invading forces to take full control.

Cognizant that as of October 10th, 2017, Greece was refounded under Crump, an active founder who has vowed to not repeat the same mistakes as his predecessor, Yauna.

Believing that Security Council Resolution #29 is no longer necessary to protect Greece from foreign attacks, since Crump has altered the Delegate position to no longer be a threat to regional security and since he has made explicit his intentions to make right what Yauna did so wrong for nine years.

Hereby Repeals Security Council Resolution #29 “Liberate Greece”.

Context: I refounded Greece on October 10th at minor update. This Liberation Resolution no longer holds any ground as Yauna is no longer in charge and can no longer play the threat he did when this was passed. And as far my statement referenced in the Resolution, this is the statement: "Starting eight months ago, I have had the intention of refounding Greece, a feat which every person I encountered said was an impossible task. Well I proved them wrong, in the last two months I was able to acquire enough influence and I successfully refounded this region. I offer Greece what it hasn't had in years: a stable, active founder who can help foster a community that once thrived so long ago. My intentions are entirely noble, I refounded Greece because I believed the unstable region, which had several failed refounding attempts in the past by natives, was far past due for another go at it. I put so much time and effort into this region, that the idea that I would ever let this nation CTE (except for an incredible circumstance in which I am unable to be at a computer, in which case I have a backup plan to give someone access who can be at a computer that I trust) is ludicrous. We don't need this resolution anymore, it's time for Greece to move past Yauna's reign and enter into a new age of growth and prosperity. Thank you."
Last edited by Crump on Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:57 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Flanderlion
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Postby Flanderlion » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:30 am

With an active founder why should the liberation resolution be repealed? I thought liberations only applied to delegate imposed passwords - and when you eventually CTE why should we have to go through this process again? It isn't doing any harm staying on the books.
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Crump
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Postby Crump » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:39 am

Flanderlion wrote:With an active founder why should the liberation resolution be repealed? I thought liberations only applied to delegate imposed passwords - and when you eventually CTE why should we have to go through this process again? It isn't doing any harm staying on the books.

Why should we get rid of any liberation proposal then? Everyone CTE's eventually!

The reason this liberation proposal was implemented in the first place has been solved: Yauna is gone and Greece is safe. Therefore the liberation proposal should go too. If we need another liberation resolution we will propose a new one with new relevant reasons when the time comes, just like how every other liberation resolution should work (which is why all the others get repealed).

And on another common argument used for repeal bills: I, and everyone else in the region, wants this liberation proposal repealed, hence why I am proposing it. As the founder I am now the best representative to show what the region believes and wants, and the region believes this resolution no longer should be on the books.
Last edited by Crump on Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:48 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Flanderlion
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Postby Flanderlion » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:14 am

"Greece is safe" - if you count being refounded by some random no name org as safe sure. If the region was being held by people who were going to make something for the region, maybe, although the lib is better to stay. But no offence, you seem like you only refounded the region to have the name, and although I'm not naive enough to think a real Greek native would happen to refound it rather than some other GPer, I don't think it's worth allowing a password.

Passwords kill regions, and RL name regions there is no reason to repeal a liberation, as most end up semi active without a password and no recruitment, and dead with one.

"I, and everyone else in the region, wants this liberation proposal repealed" - kicking everyone doesn't make you a native, sorry.

You have barely a single RMB page over two regions (https://www.nationstates.net/region=the_elysian_fields, https://www.nationstates.net/region=the ... tionstates) yet somehow you're a good custodian for Greece?

There is a liberation in place, there is a new administration of the region which hasn't proved itself capable yet, the liberation isn't doing any harm remaining, and a liberation for the region is likely to be needed in the future, so repealing it would be at best pointless, and more likely just dumb.
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Kanglia
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Postby Kanglia » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:29 pm

Against for all the reasons Flanderlion has stated.
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Fauxia
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Postby Fauxia » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:25 pm

Flanderlion wrote:"Greece is safe" - if you count being refounded by some random no name org as safe sure. If the region was being held by people who were going to make something for the region, maybe, although the lib is better to stay. But no offence, you seem like you only refounded the region to have the name, and although I'm not naive enough to think a real Greek native would happen to refound it rather than some other GPer, I don't think it's worth allowing a password.

Passwords kill regions, and RL name regions there is no reason to repeal a liberation, as most end up semi active without a password and no recruitment, and dead with one.

"I, and everyone else in the region, wants this liberation proposal repealed" - kicking everyone doesn't make you a native, sorry.

You have barely a single RMB page over two regions (https://www.nationstates.net/region=the_elysian_fields, https://www.nationstates.net/region=the ... tionstates) yet somehow you're a good custodian for Greece?

There is a liberation in place, there is a new administration of the region which hasn't proved itself capable yet, the liberation isn't doing any harm remaining, and a liberation for the region is likely to be needed in the future, so repealing it would be at best pointless, and more likely just dumb.
I mean, Crump is the founder of a 100+ nation region also... Or am I not supposed to say that?

Why the hyperlinks to Greece though? Strictly speaking, it’s a different region now.
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Crump
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Postby Crump » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:30 pm

Flanderlion wrote:"Greece is safe" - if you count being refounded by some random no name org as safe sure. If the region was being held by people who were going to make something for the region, maybe, although the lib is better to stay. But no offence, you seem like you only refounded the region to have the name, and although I'm not naive enough to think a real Greek native would happen to refound it rather than some other GPer, I don't think it's worth allowing a password.

Passwords kill regions, and RL name regions there is no reason to repeal a liberation, as most end up semi active without a password and no recruitment, and dead with one.

"I, and everyone else in the region, wants this liberation proposal repealed" - kicking everyone doesn't make you a native, sorry.

You have barely a single RMB page over two regions (https://www.nationstates.net/region=the_elysian_fields, https://www.nationstates.net/region=the ... tionstates) yet somehow you're a good custodian for Greece?

There is a liberation in place, there is a new administration of the region which hasn't proved itself capable yet, the liberation isn't doing any harm remaining, and a liberation for the region is likely to be needed in the future, so repealing it would be at best pointless, and more likely just dumb.

I would like to point out that I am Yodle and that my intentions are to actually to create a community, not just let it sit around and waste away. Look up my RMB posts on my main nation, you think I don't mean business? I have plenty of experience starting a region from scratch and building up a very active community, which is what I did in The Region That Has No Big Banks. If I just wanted Greece for the name, why in the world would I spend 8 months planning this out? For like two days in the public spotlight? Please, don't kid yourself. I have a deep personal investment in this region and I very much intend to put the work that it takes to get it back up and running. There won't be a password because I won't let there be a password. Also, what then defines a native if the founder is not a native? You mean the natives from nine years ago? Well they're gone now, so I guess there exists no natives in existence for Greece.
Last edited by Crump on Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Fauxia
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Postby Fauxia » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:34 pm

I’d cut down on the hyperlinks. Just one to each entity, and idk of Greece should get one
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Crump
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Postby Crump » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:37 pm

Fauxia wrote:I’d cut down on the hyperlinks. Just one to each entity, and idk of Greece should get one

Heh, good point, I will fix that.

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Tananat
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Postby Tananat » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:39 pm

Several questions:

1. Were you able to save the old RMB of Greece or is this lost to the ether?

2. Will nations you ejected in your refound be permitted to come to this new Greece?

3. Did the natives - or what passes for them - of Greece agree to this refound - and was an attempt made to contact them to explain the situation?

The answers to these questions will likely decide whether I put my inconsequential and insignificant weight behind this proposal :P

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Crump
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Postby Crump » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:47 pm

Tananat wrote:Several questions:

1. Were you able to save the old RMB of Greece or is this lost to the ether?

2. Will nations you ejected in your refound be permitted to come to this new Greece?

3. Did the natives - or what passes for them - of Greece agree to this refound - and was an attempt made to contact them to explain the situation?

The answers to these questions will likely decide whether I put my inconsequential and insignificant weight behind this proposal :P

1. No I wasn't, there was over 200 pages of RMB posts and I actually spent 3 three weeks going through and unsuppressing every post. I wish I could have, but the recreation of such a massive amount of posts (most of them were very long) would have taken an ungodly amount of time.

2. Yes, in fact they are coming back as we speak.

3. The issue was that there were no natives left. Believe me, we tried to get a "native" to work with us (literally the only active guy in the region), but they turned out to just be a raider puppet and it curtailed the operation for at least three months before I picked it back up again and did the final two month stretch to the refound. I have begun the process of going through old forum posts and regions that were used as refuge for old Greek natives and have been offering them to come into Greece. So far the people who have been associated with Greece in some manner have praised my efforts and congratulated me, as they failed to succeed in a refound for years. If there exists a Greek native from nine years ago, I will find them and I will contact them. It will take time and heavy amounts of research, but I will do it.

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Roavin
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Postby Roavin » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:00 pm

Crump wrote:
Tananat wrote:1. Were you able to save the old RMB of Greece or is this lost to the ether?

1. No I wasn't, there was over 200 pages of RMB posts and I actually spent 3 three weeks going through and unsuppressing every post. I wish I could have, but the recreation of such a massive amount of posts (most of them were very long) would have taken an ungodly amount of time.


Um, there are tools available for this, which you should know from our time in Solidarity together when we used it to save Jakkhu's RMB. You could have asked me. Or, hell, Lenlyvit would have told you.
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Lenlyvit
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Postby Lenlyvit » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:24 pm

I definitely could have, if he had actually asked me. Hell, I've bugged you enough times to save other RMB's in refounded regions Roavin lol. But in all seriousness, you should know that Yodle, plus know that there are definitely still natives of Greece in existence from the years before Yauna and the years after. I'm actually against this repeal.
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Yodle
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Postby Yodle » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:55 pm

Roavin wrote:
Crump wrote:1. No I wasn't, there was over 200 pages of RMB posts and I actually spent 3 three weeks going through and unsuppressing every post. I wish I could have, but the recreation of such a massive amount of posts (most of them were very long) would have taken an ungodly amount of time.


Um, there are tools available for this, which you should know from our time in Solidarity together when we used it to save Jakkhu's RMB. You could have asked me. Or, hell, Lenlyvit would have told you.

Lenlyvit wrote:I definitely could have, if he had actually asked me. Hell, I've bugged you enough times to save other RMB's in refounded regions Roavin lol. But in all seriousness, you should know that Yodle, plus know that there are definitely still natives of Greece in existence from the years before Yauna and the years after. I'm actually against this repeal.

Unfortunately I wasn't aware of the existence of this tool prior to this conversation; admittedly I have little to no recollection of Jakkhu (other than that it was an operation we did) and little to no knowledge of the extent to which there are tools which do all of these tasks. This is mostly because of my low presence on the forums and my general disconnect from the rest of the defender world I would assume (I am much more involved in regional politics and what not). If the old natives are still around NS, then what better way to signal them without hunting them down than to put this repeal to a vote? This liberation resolution only mentions two original natives who stuck around and were in Greece at the time of the crisis, both of which no longer are around (Nikolaus the Great having CTE'd a year ago and the other nation having CTE'd a much longer time ago). These people left Greece so long ago (prior to Yauna), that the fact we are addressing them as the true natives of Greece is misconstruing the truth. We're talking over a decade, their entire identities on NS and in general no longer reflect Greece in any way, shape or form. I would love to have a conversation with them if I could, though. As far as natives who were their during the Yauna years, I literally read through the entirity of the RMB. I am not exaggerating when I say that, I read and skimmed through every single message. I'd say like maybe 3-4 people still exist from then (many of them were either embassy posts and maybe like one or two were people still in existence who were in the region), and one of them came back from the grave and joined us for a bit, then CTE'd. These people moved on a long time ago, they have their own regions now and I highly doubt they'd just come back to Greece on a whim after establishing themselves elsewhere. Like I said, I would love to have a conversation about the days of old with them, but that has nothing to do with repealing this liberation resolution.

Edit: The old native who joined us for a few months was Sparta Dominion, unfortunately he CTE'd and will return to NS one day in the future once again. That seemed to be his pattern.
Last edited by Yodle on Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unibot III
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Postby Unibot III » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:02 pm

If Greece is finally liberated, huzzah! My personal thought is to give this some time, the WA Liberation is largely inoffensive to a foundered region - it was more helpful in the days where Yauna had a habit of CTE'ing with enough of a window to allow a sneaky refound. If what we're witnessing really is a renewed commitment to an open Greece, the WA Liberation will prove unnecessary and can always be repealed in five months time, a year, or five. I won't doubt the nativeness of those proposing a repeal and I don't think a debate about their nativeness is constructive or even necessary here; it's just in these kinds of transition, I would always urge taking some time to test the waters and feel things out.

It's very good news though to hear Greece has been liberated. ^^

(And I'm not just saying give it time because I wrote the damn thing, I wrote it for Greece, I'm thrilled the crisis is over. I only urge patience because I've seen some of these transitions go sideways.)
Last edited by Unibot III on Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Oakrugia
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Postby Oakrugia » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:08 pm

Well. You're finally going to lose your honor of having that shiny liberation badge. You're on your own once thats gone.
Last edited by Oakrugia on Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Yodle
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Postby Yodle » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:17 pm

Unibot III wrote:If Greece is finally liberated, huzzah! My personal thought is to give this some time, the WA Liberation is largely inoffensive to a foundered region - it was more helpful in the days where Yauna had a habit of CTE'ing with enough of a window to allow a sneaky refound. If what we're witnessing really is a renewed commitment to an open Greece, the WA Liberation will prove unnecessary and can always be repealed in five months time, a year, or five. I won't doubt the nativeness of those proposing a repeal and I don't think a debate about their nativeness is constructive or even necessary here; it's just in these kinds of transition, I would always urge taking some time to test the waters and feel things out.

It's very good news though to hear Greece has been liberated. ^^

(And I'm not just saying give it time because I wrote the damn thing, I wrote it for Greece, I'm thrilled the crisis is over. I only urge patience because I've seen some of these transitions go sideways.)

Ah, I didn't realize you were the original author! Your point is fair and reasonable, I will take it into consideration when evaluating when I would propose this repeal :)

Edit: I'm switching back and forth between my nations now by accident, just for clarity I am Crump.
Last edited by Yodle on Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Crump
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Postby Crump » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:25 pm

Oakrugia wrote:Well. You're finally going to lose your honor of having that shiny liberation badge. You're on your own once thats gone.

It's only an honor if it serves a genuine purpose :p

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Postby The North Polish Union » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:40 pm

This would appear to be dead in the water

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Postby Tim-Opolis » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:08 am

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Willania Imperium
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Postby Willania Imperium » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:12 am

Tim-Opolis wrote:I'd press F to pay respect, but there's no respect to give. Don't cheat, kids.


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Tim-Opolis wrote:Don't cheat, kids.

Indeed.


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