International Consortium of Democratic Nations (ICDN) [OPEN]

[South Americanastan]

Unfortunately, no. We've decided to retire the ICDN with the War of Corrish Succession. If you want to join an alliance, I would advise that you join SM's alliance, whatever name it goes by these days.

I’m kind of surprised at this. While I support new recruits for the Global Alliance, East Stal Saillnerce (The Allied Tribe) wanted ICDN to merge into the Global Alliance prior to Dalmannia CtEing.

Eh, it felt more fitting for the ICDN to go out with a bang, splintering apart due to crisis within the leading country. Both me and Corrington felt that the ICDN deserved to end on it's own terms as opposed to merging into another alliance and dying out with a whimper.

[Southeast Marajarbia]

I’m kind of surprised at this. While I support new recruits for the Global Alliance, East Stal Saillnerce (The Allied Tribe) wanted ICDN to merge into the Global Alliance prior to Dalmannia CtEing.

Eh, it felt more fitting for the ICDN to go out with a bang, splintering apart due to crisis within the leading country. Both me and Corrington felt that the ICDN deserved to end on it's own terms as opposed to merging into another alliance and dying out with a whimper.

I guess, although there are two reasons why I disagree here. The first is that merging would allow the ICDN to preserve its legacy and remain a major part in canon NS history for the next few months and/or year, since Deblar, Countesia, And yourself (from who I have seen online during the past week or so) do not appear to be leaving NS anytime soon. The second is that what was planned by ESS/TAT was for the merged ICDN to play a very large role in the creation of New Democratic alliances, as well as actually make the Global Alliance way more democratic than it currently is, but by first having ICDN hold a vote on joining.

I semi-disagree with the war of succession, but only because it doesn’t involve the ICDN as a whole, just Corrington’s allies. If you wanted to end ICDN on a bang, an ICDN civil war (between two groups of ICDN members who have different plans for the alliance not getting along), that would be way more interesting. However, it is a bit late for that atm.

[South Americanastan]

Eh, it felt more fitting for the ICDN to go out with a bang, splintering apart due to crisis within the leading country. Both me and Corrington felt that the ICDN deserved to end on it's own terms as opposed to merging into another alliance and dying out with a whimper.

I guess, although there are two reasons why I disagree here. The first is that merging would allow the ICDN to preserve its legacy and remain a major part in canon NS history for the next few months and/or year, since Deblar, Countesia, And yourself (from who I have seen online during the past week or so) do not appear to be leaving NS anytime soon. The second is that what was planned by ESS/TAT was for the merged ICDN to play a very large role in the creation of New Democratic alliances, as well as actually make the Global Alliance way more democratic than it currently is, but by first having ICDN hold a vote on joining.

I semi-disagree with the war of succession, but only because it doesn’t involve the ICDN as a whole, just Corrington’s allies. If you wanted to end ICDN on a bang, an ICDN civil war (between two groups of ICDN members who have different plans for the alliance not getting along), that would be way more interesting. However, it is a bit late for that atm.

Corrington's allies, to my understanding, includes all members of the ICDN. While there are certain people I would like not to be included in that, that is the definition to my knowledge. This alliance was dead and dying before this, and there's little to no chance it would have survived any longer as part of the GA. As said, we preferred to go out on our own terms, and being part of the GA felt more like giving away our diplomatic independence then an opportunity to rejuvenate the alliance.

[Southeast Marajarbia]

I guess, although there are two reasons why I disagree here. The first is that merging would allow the ICDN to preserve its legacy and remain a major part in canon NS history for the next few months and/or year, since Deblar, Countesia, And yourself (from who I have seen online during the past week or so) do not appear to be leaving NS anytime soon. The second is that what was planned by ESS/TAT was for the merged ICDN to play a very large role in the creation of New Democratic alliances, as well as actually make the Global Alliance way more democratic than it currently is, but by first having ICDN hold a vote on joining.

I semi-disagree with the war of succession, but only because it doesn’t involve the ICDN as a whole, just Corrington’s allies. If you wanted to end ICDN on a bang, an ICDN civil war (between two groups of ICDN members who have different plans for the alliance not getting along), that would be way more interesting. However, it is a bit late for that atm.

Corrington's allies, to my understanding, includes all members of the ICDN. While there are certain people I would like not to be included in that, that is the definition to my knowledge. This alliance was dead and dying before this, and there's little to no chance it would have survived any longer as part of the GA. As said, we preferred to go out on our own terms, and being part of the GA felt more like giving away our diplomatic independence then an opportunity to rejuvenate the alliance.

Well, would the post-war of succession events result in a future for the ICDN? Similar to how SETA dissolved into LITA and CITA?

[South Americanastan]

Corrington's allies, to my understanding, includes all members of the ICDN. While there are certain people I would like not to be included in that, that is the definition to my knowledge. This alliance was dead and dying before this, and there's little to no chance it would have survived any longer as part of the GA. As said, we preferred to go out on our own terms, and being part of the GA felt more like giving away our diplomatic independence then an opportunity to rejuvenate the alliance.

Well, would the post-war of succession events result in a future for the ICDN? Similar to how SETA dissolved into LITA and CITA?

Possibly.

However, I would like to note that the supposed "NEW ICDN" is not a part of this split, and is an unauthorized copypasta. I could see the ICDN splitting into two based on either pro-war/anti-war or supporters of Prince Eric vs. supporters of Prince John, though it's going to be a bit until that comes around.

[Southeast Marajarbia]

Well, would the post-war of succession events result in a future for the ICDN? Similar to how SETA dissolved into LITA and CITA?

Possibly.

However, I would like to note that the supposed "NEW ICDN" is not a part of this split, and is an unauthorized copypasta. I could see the ICDN splitting into two based on either pro-war/anti-war or supporters of Prince Eric vs. supporters of Prince John, though it's going to be a bit until that comes around.

I understand how you might be upset at UAC for that, and I did have some of the same concerns, and have telegrammed him about a potential name change to no response. However, I don’t see a problem with it when ZN did the same with GRAIL.

[South Americanastan]

Possibly.

However, I would like to note that the supposed "NEW ICDN" is not a part of this split, and is an unauthorized copypasta. I could see the ICDN splitting into two based on either pro-war/anti-war or supporters of Prince Eric vs. supporters of Prince John, though it's going to be a bit until that comes around.

I understand how you might be upset at UAC for that, and I did have some of the same concerns, and have telegrammed him about a potential name change to no response. However, I don’t see a problem with it when ZN did the same with GRAIL.

A major part of my anger at UAC for that is that he did not ask permission from anyone in this alliance, and that he's used copy+pasting for his own gain in the past, most notably outright stealing Kiu Ghesik's IP for use as his native peoples, along with copypasting wikipedia articles for RP posts.

[Southeast Marajarbia]

I understand how you might be upset at UAC for that, and I did have some of the same concerns, and have telegrammed him about a potential name change to no response. However, I don’t see a problem with it when ZN did the same with GRAIL.

A major part of my anger at UAC for that is that he did not ask permission from anyone in this alliance, and that he's used copy+pasting for his own gain in the past, most notably outright stealing Kiu Ghesik's IP for use as his native peoples, along with copypasting wikipedia articles for RP posts.

That slightly confuses me. First off, how would you know it’s Wikipedia when it’s Wikipedia, a highly edited site? Second off, in his sig, he specifies which ethnic group belongs to who ( except for Kiu Ghesik’s, but I believe that has changed). Third off, if the thing that pisses you off the most is the “NEW” ICDN, why even include the first two?

[South Americanastan]

A major part of my anger at UAC for that is that he did not ask permission from anyone in this alliance, and that he's used copy+pasting for his own gain in the past, most notably outright stealing Kiu Ghesik's IP for use as his native peoples, along with copypasting wikipedia articles for RP posts.

That slightly confuses me. First off, how would you know it’s Wikipedia when it’s Wikipedia, a highly edited site? Second off, in his sig, he specifies which ethnic group belongs to who ( except for Kiu Ghesik’s, but I believe that has changed). Third off, if the thing that pisses you off the most is the “NEW” ICDN, why even include the first two?

Because one of the openings he copypasted was the one for Pearl Harbor, which is a major article that cannot be edited on a whim.
Giving credit doesn't make IP stealing okay, and it still demonstrates a blatant lack of effort and creativity.

[Southeast Marajarbia]

That slightly confuses me. First off, how would you know it’s Wikipedia when it’s Wikipedia, a highly edited site? Second off, in his sig, he specifies which ethnic group belongs to who ( except for Kiu Ghesik’s, but I believe that has changed). Third off, if the thing that pisses you off the most is the “NEW” ICDN, why even include the first two?

Because one of the openings he copypasted was the one for Pearl Harbor, which is a major article that cannot be edited on a whim.
Giving credit doesn't make IP stealing okay, and it still demonstrates a blatant lack of effort and creativity.

Giving credit is still giving credit, which is a good thing to do on his part. If he is an ICDN member who wishes to continue the ICDN his way, let him do what he wants if that is still possible with you. His RP style is his RP style, if he chooses to do that, that’s his decision, especially on Wikipedia.

[South Americanastan]

Because one of the openings he copypasted was the one for Pearl Harbor, which is a major article that cannot be edited on a whim.
Giving credit doesn't make IP stealing okay, and it still demonstrates a blatant lack of effort and creativity.

Giving credit is still giving credit, which is a good thing to do on his part. If he is an ICDN member who wishes to continue the ICDN his way, let him do what he wants if that is still possible with you. His RP style is his RP style, if he chooses to do that, that’s his decision, especially on Wikipedia.

The problem arises in the fact the ICDN as an organization and brand was supposed to be retired. We all agreed to that. There wasn't going to be any kind of "ICDN 2" or anything. There would be splinter factions, sure, but no true singular successor. He's completely wrecked that, and instead of the ICDN getting a climactic sendoff, we get to be ended as a low-quality ripoff.

[Southeast Marajarbia]

Giving credit is still giving credit, which is a good thing to do on his part. If he is an ICDN member who wishes to continue the ICDN his way, let him do what he wants if that is still possible with you. His RP style is his RP style, if he chooses to do that, that’s his decision, especially on Wikipedia.

The problem arises in the fact the ICDN as an organization and brand was supposed to be retired. We all agreed to that. There wasn't going to be any kind of "ICDN 2" or anything. There would be splinter factions, sure, but no true singular successor. He's completely wrecked that, and instead of the ICDN getting a climactic sendoff, we get to be ended as a low-quality ripoff.

As I recall it, the original aim was to end ICDN by dissolving it and renaming it to “TALON”, and not fully ending ICDN with a bang like ICDN is now doing, correct?

[South Americanastan]

The problem arises in the fact the ICDN as an organization and brand was supposed to be retired. We all agreed to that. There wasn't going to be any kind of "ICDN 2" or anything. There would be splinter factions, sure, but no true singular successor. He's completely wrecked that, and instead of the ICDN getting a climactic sendoff, we get to be ended as a low-quality ripoff.

As I recall it, the original aim was to end ICDN by dissolving it and renaming it to “TALON”, and not fully ending ICDN with a bang like ICDN is now doing, correct?

It was an idea that was floated, yes. However, even then TALON wasn't going to be an ICDN 2, it was going to be a restructure and rebrand. Eventually, it became clear there wasn't enough alliance activity for TALON to work, and we shifted to ending it with a climactic bang.

[Southeast Marajarbia]

As I recall it, the original aim was to end ICDN by dissolving it and renaming it to “TALON”, and not fully ending ICDN with a bang like ICDN is now doing, correct?

It was an idea that was floated, yes. However, even then TALON wasn't going to be an ICDN 2, it was going to be a restructure and rebrand. Eventually, it became clear there wasn't enough alliance activity for TALON to work, and we shifted to ending it with a climactic bang.

As I also recall, Dalmannia didn’t want ICDN to end at all, but was rather reconsidering the GA option, and was considering a successor as well. This implies to me like what’s going on right now is against Dalmannia’s wishes for the alliance.

[South Americanastan]

It was an idea that was floated, yes. However, even then TALON wasn't going to be an ICDN 2, it was going to be a restructure and rebrand. Eventually, it became clear there wasn't enough alliance activity for TALON to work, and we shifted to ending it with a climactic bang.

As I also recall, Dalmannia didn’t want ICDN to end at all, but was rather reconsidering the GA option, and was considering a successor as well. This implies to me like what’s going on right now is against Dalmannia’s wishes for the alliance.

Dalmannia was in a... weird... position by the end of the alliance, if I'm going to be honest. He would've preferred for the ICDN not to end, but it was clear that it was, and he kind of lost a handle on things by the end. He also expressed that his feelings about the preservation of the alliance were unrealistic, and cooperated with Corrington's idea for an ICDN breakup.

My idea? The War of the Corrish Succession. Some insurgents from South India who were accepted to Corrington as refugees (since we did that during this conflict) successfully hatch a plan that somehow assassinates the King and Queen. What remains is some loose familial structure of hierarchy, but far and wide many nations now lay claim to various positions in line to the Corrish throne. Nordeslund and Dalmannia are the closest, but plenty of others can join the fray as well. Even non-royal allies of Corrington could come in support of the Parliamentary government, which would be fighting against the various royal factions.

Let me know your thoughts.

Ok this sounds awesome. I don’t know about the whole destruction of the ICDN thing, but you’re probably right about the whole alliance fading part. If enough people are up for it, I’m definitely up for it.

But I have one important question: who would actually be closest in line to the throne… Dalmannia through Marie and Edward or Nordeslund through Ann Elise and James?

[Southeast Marajarbia]

As I also recall, Dalmannia didn’t want ICDN to end at all, but was rather reconsidering the GA option, and was considering a successor as well. This implies to me like what’s going on right now is against Dalmannia’s wishes for the alliance.

Dalmannia was in a... weird... position by the end of the alliance, if I'm going to be honest. He would've preferred for the ICDN not to end, but it was clear that it was, and he kind of lost a handle on things by the end. He also expressed that his feelings about the preservation of the alliance were unrealistic, and cooperated with Corrington's idea for an ICDN breakup.

Ok this sounds awesome. I don’t know about the whole destruction of the ICDN thing, but you’re probably right about the whole alliance fading part. If enough people are up for it, I’m definitely up for it.

But I have one important question: who would actually be closest in line to the throne… Dalmannia through Marie and Edward or Nordeslund through Ann Elise and James?

That is kind of ironic, to be honest. You are telling me that his feelings were weird about it, when you and I both see that he was not sure about the destruction of ICDN, but agreed with Corrington on ICDN fading away due to member inactivity. To be honest with you, it kind of looks to me that Dalmannia did not want ICDN to end, but he did notice the inactivity causing problems.

Either way, that’s no reason to end ICDN when ICDN was, by far, the biggest alliance out there by mid-2021.

[South Americanastan]

Dalmannia was in a... weird... position by the end of the alliance, if I'm going to be honest. He would've preferred for the ICDN not to end, but it was clear that it was, and he kind of lost a handle on things by the end. He also expressed that his feelings about the preservation of the alliance were unrealistic, and cooperated with Corrington's idea for an ICDN breakup.

That is kind of ironic, to be honest. You are telling me that his feelings were weird about it, when you and I both see that he was not sure about the destruction of ICDN, but agreed with Corrington on ICDN fading away due to member inactivity. To be honest with you, it kind of looks to me that Dalmannia did not want ICDN to end, but he did notice the inactivity causing problems.

Either way, that’s no reason to end ICDN when ICDN was, by far, the biggest alliance out there by mid-2021.

ICDN was the biggest alliance numerically, but we only had about 15 active members at any given point in time. I said he was in a weird position, not that his feelings about it were weird. Dalmannia went so far as to ask about the line of succession regarding the RP, so clearly he was at least willing to entertain the idea, and possibly even participate.

[Southeast Marajarbia]

That is kind of ironic, to be honest. You are telling me that his feelings were weird about it, when you and I both see that he was not sure about the destruction of ICDN, but agreed with Corrington on ICDN fading away due to member inactivity. To be honest with you, it kind of looks to me that Dalmannia did not want ICDN to end, but he did notice the inactivity causing problems.

Either way, that’s no reason to end ICDN when ICDN was, by far, the biggest alliance out there by mid-2021.

ICDN was the biggest alliance numerically, but we only had about 15 active members at any given point in time. I said he was in a weird position, not that his feelings about it were weird. Dalmannia went so far as to ask about the line of succession regarding the RP, so clearly he was at least willing to entertain the idea, and possibly even participate.

Well, here is the thing. Dalmannia was by far, the closest ally to Corrington, and that’s probably why he was interested in that OOCly. ICly, it was because Prince John (I think?) was married to Princess Marie. Now, if you ICly RPed a marriage between one of your characters and Corrington’s characters, resulting in a line of succession like the one being seen right now, I believe you would respond the same way. Dalmannia was interested in the RP itself, but not ending ICDN as it was likely fun for him.

[South Americanastan]

ICDN was the biggest alliance numerically, but we only had about 15 active members at any given point in time. I said he was in a weird position, not that his feelings about it were weird. Dalmannia went so far as to ask about the line of succession regarding the RP, so clearly he was at least willing to entertain the idea, and possibly even participate.

Well, here is the thing. Dalmannia was by far, the closest ally to Corrington, and that’s probably why he was interested in that OOCly. ICly, it was because Prince John (I think?) was married to Princess Marie. Now, if you ICly RPed a marriage between one of your characters and Corrington’s characters, resulting in a line of succession like the one being seen right now, I believe you would respond the same way. Dalmannia was interested in the RP itself, but not ending ICDN as it was likely fun for him.

Dalmannia explicitly said "If enough people are up for it, I'm definitely up for it"

Considering multiple people liked that idea, and the RP already has 5 participants, I think we're good on that front.

Additionally, Dalmannia has CTEed, and control of the ICDN would thus fall to Corrington, who would obviously dissolve the ICDN.

[Southeast Marajarbia]

Well, here is the thing. Dalmannia was by far, the closest ally to Corrington, and that’s probably why he was interested in that OOCly. ICly, it was because Prince John (I think?) was married to Princess Marie. Now, if you ICly RPed a marriage between one of your characters and Corrington’s characters, resulting in a line of succession like the one being seen right now, I believe you would respond the same way. Dalmannia was interested in the RP itself, but not ending ICDN as it was likely fun for him.

Dalmannia explicitly said "If enough people are up for it, I'm definitely up for it"

Considering multiple people liked that idea, and the RP already has 5 participants, I think we're good on that front.

Additionally, Dalmannia has CTEed, and control of the ICDN would thus fall to Corrington, who would obviously dissolve the ICDN.

Hang on, hang on here. I know Corrington is the Security Council President and all, but on an IC matter, due to the current undergoing crisis, wouldn’t that make you the current official in command?

Also, no matter who is the leader, the overall aim for ICDN was to ensure that democracy happened no matter what, so no democratic vote would take place is what you are implying here?

[South Americanastan]

Dalmannia explicitly said "If enough people are up for it, I'm definitely up for it"

Considering multiple people liked that idea, and the RP already has 5 participants, I think we're good on that front.

Additionally, Dalmannia has CTEed, and control of the ICDN would thus fall to Corrington, who would obviously dissolve the ICDN.

Hang on, hang on here. I know Corrington is the Security Council President and all, but on an IC matter, due to the current undergoing crisis, wouldn’t that make you the current official in command?

Also, no matter who is the leader, the overall aim for ICDN was to ensure that democracy happened no matter what, so no democratic vote would take place is what you are implying here?

Are you actually shutting me right now?
For all intents and purposes, there was a democratic vote, and nobody raised any objections. Also, even if IC *were* to fall to me, (though a formatted plan like this would be Corrington’s), I’m still dissolving the ICDN. If this is some political game to get the ICDN back, I’m not going to participate anymore, and if you’re trying to get me to drop my issue with the New ICDN, it’s not going to work.

[Southeast Marajarbia]

Hang on, hang on here. I know Corrington is the Security Council President and all, but on an IC matter, due to the current undergoing crisis, wouldn’t that make you the current official in command?

Also, no matter who is the leader, the overall aim for ICDN was to ensure that democracy happened no matter what, so no democratic vote would take place is what you are implying here?

Are you actually shutting me right now?
For all intents and purposes, there was a democratic vote, and nobody raised any objections. Also, even if IC *were* to fall to me, (though a formatted plan like this would be Corrington’s), I’m still dissolving the ICDN. If this is some political game to get the ICDN back, I’m not going to participate anymore, and if you’re trying to get me to drop my issue with the New ICDN, it’s not going to work.

It’s neither of those things, but there is a point here you aren’t seeing. The ICDN clearly is in your hands right now, so if you are to dissolve it with the already placed OOC vote (instead of an IC one), now would be the best possible time. If you want to end what can and obviously is an ICDN member’s attempt at reviving and fixing an alliance in which (plagiarism aside) is doing well, so be it. However, my point is that ICDN should not dissolve, because Dalmannia had other things in mind. If it dissolves, it’s pretty much done for without a successor. That is all I have been trying to stick in your head for the whole day.

[Corrington]

Dalmannia was in a... weird... position by the end of the alliance, if I'm going to be honest. He would've preferred for the ICDN not to end, but it was clear that it was, and he kind of lost a handle on things by the end. He also expressed that his feelings about the preservation of the alliance were unrealistic, and cooperated with Corrington's idea for an ICDN breakup.

That is kind of ironic, to be honest. You are telling me that his feelings were weird about it, when you and I both see that he was not sure about the destruction of ICDN, but agreed with Corrington on ICDN fading away due to member inactivity. To be honest with you, it kind of looks to me that Dalmannia did not want ICDN to end, but he did notice the inactivity causing problems.

Either way, that’s no reason to end ICDN when ICDN was, by far, the biggest alliance out there by mid-2021.

I can’t speak for Dalmannia, but as the person in charge of the ICDN today I’d say we can IC explain any decline as neglect due to the pressing issue of the War of Succession, as well as any divisions in the alliance that result from it.

It’s unfortunate Dalmannia CTE’d though, they would’ve been a good participant in the War of Corrish Succession storyline.