NS Military Worldbuilding Thread No. 12

[Gallia-]

Does patriotic propaganda from a young age (primary school) make those kids better soldiers who they get older and enlist?

no

making them racist will increase the volunteer number a lot though t. PLAGF

multi million man ostensibly has a draft, never used it

USA would need a giga draft just to round out a million man army today

propaganda and "patriotism" don't function without racism because racism focuses inner anger on external threats instead of on fellow countrymen

this is why the US's propaganda is so much weaker than the PRC's domestically and why the PLAGF is able to meet its recruiting quota while the US Army is forever struggling

generally speaking communist countries are typically quite good at internal domestic propaganda though since control of mass media is a raison d'etre of democratic centralism

the only way to make them "better soldiers"(???) is to have them practice killing though

"racism" in this case means more general xenophobia leveraged with a constructed or pre-existing national or supra-national identity tbh

it's a bit more complex than that in reality since nations tend to exist a lot more commonly than polities so the interactions will be locally minded, but the gist is that people who hate things outside hate themselves less

[Noocratic Callipolis]

the only way to make them "better soldiers"(???) is to have them practice killing though

Whilst by better in this context I meant braver, kids destined for the army are sent out on hunting trips but combat soldiers are already selected for both aggression and intellect.

So smart children who get into fights are selected to be combat soldiers whilst dumb children who get into fights are not.

I don’t know what happens to those kids yet, I guess they’re channelled into either trades or becoming labourers.

Some people are sent to jail but if they don’t reform and become workers they are usually executed.

[Gallia-]

the only way to make them "better soldiers"(???) is to have them practice killing though

Whilst by better in this context I meant braver, kids destined for the army are sent out on hunting trips.

since when does a moose shoot back? deer i can understand though

people going into the army should be sent to basic training, whatever specialty training, and then sent on regular (biannual maybe?) battalion size field exercises

[Noocratic Callipolis]

Whilst by better in this context I meant braver, kids destined for the army are sent out on hunting trips.

since when does a moose shoot back? deer i can understand though

Yes they’re sent deer hunting eventually.

But that was to make them willing to kill, they’re made brave through a number of ways, patriotism, religion, contsct sports such as boxing, rugby and MMA and exposure to harsh weather and other hardships.

In addition, brave men can have polygynous marriages to fellow soldiers of either gender.
(This state only believes in two genders).

[Gallia-]

killing a deer isnt killing a person

racism makes them kill people easily, though

good propaganda for raising soldiers is generally xenophobic and nationally chauvinist

look at ww1 french propaganda for examples i guess

all the other stuff you mentioned is just generally masculine hobbies that don't really add or detract from a soldier

maybe the sportsball and grappling stuff will help their physical fitness though

[The Republic of Western Sol]

Hi all! I need ideas for tactics for my nation that revolves around my tech with an essence of German blitzkrieg and some scorched earth tactics, if anyone can find me anything which would work I’d be more than appreciative

Also I may need some fighter tactics for small, fast and nimble, yet lightly armoured craft

Please?

[Noocratic Callipolis]

good propaganda for raising soldiers is generally xenophobic and nationally chauvinist

Yeah, so is ours to an extent especially xenophobic against the people of states we really don’t like such as Turkey, Sweden, Equatorial Guinea (before we conquered it) and others.

[Gallia-]

Hi all! I need ideas for tactics for my nation that revolves around my tech with an essence of German blitzkrieg and some scorched earth tactics, if anyone can find me anything which would work I’d be more than appreciative

Also I may need some fighter tactics for small, fast and nimble, yet lightly armoured craft

Please?

http://falcon.blu3wolf.com/Docs/Fighter ... vering.pdf

this is a book that came with falcon 4.0 that talks about fighter pilot tactics if you want

for the second part

good propaganda for raising soldiers is generally xenophobic and nationally chauvinist

Yeah, so is ours to an extent especially xenophobic against the people of states we really don’t like such as Turkey, Sweden, Equatorial Guinea (before we conquered it) and others.

here is what a good war propaganda machine does: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramil_Safarov

Safarov is not just a hero of Azerbaijan, he is an international hero! A monument should be set up to him. Not every man could do this. There are two heroes − Mr. Ilham Aliyev and Ramil Safarov. I would have done exactly as Ramil did. He did the right thing to take the life of an Armenian.

least racist turk idk

[Noocratic Callipolis]

Please?

http://falcon.blu3wolf.com/Docs/Fighter ... vering.pdf

this is a book that came with falcon 4.0 that talks about fighter pilot tactics if you want

for the second part

Yeah, so is ours to an extent especially xenophobic against the people of states we really don’t like such as Turkey, Sweden, Equatorial Guinea (before we conquered it) and others.

here is what a good war propaganda machine does: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramil_Safarov

Safarov is not just a hero of Azerbaijan, he is an international hero! A monument should be set up to him. Not every man could do this. There are two heroes − Mr. Ilham Aliyev and Ramil Safarov. I would have done exactly as Ramil did. He did the right thing to take the life of an Armenian.

least racist turk idk

That is inefficient. Murdering allies or on allies’ soil doesn’t bring economics or political benefits on the world stage.
You should train the army to be obedient so you can change who your enemies are (the two minutes hate machine).

The distinction between “Hellenes” (cultures considered civilised) and “barbarians” is deliberately kept vague for this purpose.
The only exception is wars to eliminate a persistent national ideology, for example the Vietnamese were classed as barbarians or to colonise somewhere forever (equatorial Guinea)

[Gallia-]

http://falcon.blu3wolf.com/Docs/Fighter ... vering.pdf

this is a book that came with falcon 4.0 that talks about fighter pilot tactics if you want

for the second part



here is what a good war propaganda machine does: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramil_Safarov



least racist turk idk

That is inefficient. Murdering allies or on allies’ soil doesn’t bring economics or political benefits on the world stage.

promoting people who eat, sleep, and breathe your ideology does have tangible benefits lol

ramil safarov is an archetypal azeri soldier and an example of a fairly xenophobic cultural group intent on exterminating an external foe

it's an example of how a stereotypical "good soldier" would look from the perspective of doing what armies do: killing the enemy

it had no effect on nato's standing towards azerbaijan either but it completely tanked armenia's nato leaning so im not sure what you mean

[Noocratic Callipolis]

That is inefficient. Murdering allies or on allies’ soil doesn’t bring economics or political benefits on the world stage.

promoting people who eat, sleep, and breathe your ideology does have tangible benefits lol

ramil safarov is an archetypal azeri soldier and an example of a fairly xenophobic cultural group intent on exterminating an external foe

it's an example of how a stereotypical "good soldier" would look from the perspective of doing what armies do: killing the enemy

it had no effect on nato's standing towards azerbaijan either but it completely tanked armenia's nato leaning so im not sure what you mean

Were they at actual war with Armenia in 2004?

also alienating people’s support of NATO is bad if NATO is on your side.

The UK was at war with Germany in 1944, were they at war with West Germany in 1954?

[Gallia-]

promoting people who eat, sleep, and breathe your ideology does have tangible benefits lol

ramil safarov is an archetypal azeri soldier and an example of a fairly xenophobic cultural group intent on exterminating an external foe

it's an example of how a stereotypical "good soldier" would look from the perspective of doing what armies do: killing the enemy

it had no effect on nato's standing towards azerbaijan either but it completely tanked armenia's nato leaning so im not sure what you mean

Were they at actual war with Armenia in 2004?

yes

theyve been locked in a genocidal conflict with armenia since 1222 when the khan's turanic warriors marched into the transcaucasus so long ago

do you think azerbaijan just grew out of the aether one day and decided to kill armenians? no, because genocidal death wars have long histories, duh

armenia has been fighting a brave battle for nearly a thousand years against the turkic peoples and slowly losing i guess

also alienating people’s support of NATO is bad if NATO is on your side.

shocking how NATO exports armaments to azerbaijan for them to conquer armenia and karabakh because the man of steel drew a funny map 100 years ago after sucker punching the biggest caucasian mountain man he could find with the Horsearmy

The UK was at war with Germany in 1944, were they at war with West Germany in 1954?

yes, again

why do you think thatcher so heavily opposed the reunification and was against membership in the EU? it cost her her job but she realized the threat a unified germany would do, it would "dominate" europe in an economic sense

wars do not simply involve "shooting people until they die"

warfare is endemic to all group struggles, and all group struggles are ultimately warfare, thus all means available are important to be used

britain lost its war against germany as much as the us nearly did in the 90s to japan

[-Northumbria]

The 2-minute hate machine would turn on and everybody would hate Sweden in like an hour because it's feminist or they painted a street sign in rainbows or something. Fox News would be all over that so the Red Team can say "wow femnazis!" and CNN and Bloomberg would produce reams of fake headlines about how Swedish military computer chips are found in Chinese missiles or something so the Blue Team can say "wow Chinese agents!" and unify in their hatred. This is what targeted advertising does lol.

Really? Is there any actual evidence this would happen? Any examples?

The answer is this dude RPs to "win" because he thinks RPing is "a game" and not a collaborative storytelling medium like old old PNP RPGs.

Actually, I was the one who said that. Azad doesn't RP to win. Out of all the times we have RPed together he won only once, and that's because he massacred protesters at the start of the RP. There was also the American presidential election RP we did but I consider that a draw since both our characters got shot.

[Noocratic Callipolis]

Were they at actual war with Armenia in 2004?

yes

theyve been locked in a genocidal conflict with armenia since 1222 when the khan's turanic warriors marched into the transcaucasus so long ago

do you think azerbaijan just grew out of the aether one day and decided to kill armenians? no, because genocidal death wars have long histories, duh

armenia has been fighting a brave battle for nearly a thousand years against the turkic peoples and slowly losing i guess

also alienating people’s support of NATO is bad if NATO is on your side.

shocking how NATO exports armaments to azerbaijan for them to conquer armenia and karabakh because the man of steel drew a funny map 100 years ago after sucker punching the biggest caucasian mountain man he could find with the Horsearmy

The UK was at war with Germany in 1944, were they at war with West Germany in 1954?

yes, again

why do you think thatcher so heavily opposed the reunification and was against membership in the EU? it cost her her job but she realized the threat a unified germany would do, it would "dominate" europe in an economic sense

wars do not simply involve "shooting people until they die"

warfare is endemic to all group struggles, and all group struggles are ultimately warfare, thus all means available are important to be used

britain lost its war against germany as much as the us nearly did in the 90s to japan

So, from context, you’re saying that it would be acceptable to you for a British serviceman to murder a West German serviceman in 1954.
That’s where we disagree.

Actually, I was the one who said that. Azad doesn't RP to win. Out of all the times we have RPed together he won only once, and that's because he massacred protesters at the start of the RP. There was also the American presidential election RP we did but I consider that a draw since both our characters got shot.

Thank you for clarifying that

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

why are we engaging with this nonsense again, in this thread?

[Cossack Peoples]

Okay.

This is edging the line of the MT label of the thread, but I still think it's relevant enough: what do you think would be the future for guidance in smart weapons?

I've been thinking that after we can miniaturize and develop high-resolution sensor equipment to include more than the triad of simply infrared, optical, and radar, and combinations thereof, development would fall more on the software behind it, making it more resilient to electronic warfare and capable of discerning its own mission targets, etc. Is it wiser in the long run to make most guided weapons multispectral, barring the costs of doing so? Would the next advancement in guided weapon's guidance be making them smarter, to the point of being autonomous?

Or is there another path? For weapons not constrained to the effects of the atmosphere, other ranges of the EM spectrum might be more available for use, making guided weaponry in outer space more effective at acquiring targets despite signature reduction or occlusion in the more conventional ends of the spectrum. Could we see missiles guided by adding in the more exotic ranges, or using active homing on wavelengths (x-rays, for example) that are difficult to jam?

The above seems a bit impractical, with the different properties of the different wavelengths of EM radiation, so I feel barring something goofy like gravimetry (which would need to be incredibly beefed up and refined to be viable) the best way to go is sensors from active/passive UV-mid Radio with plenty of tech support to fuse and interpret their readings and discount electronic warfare.

I've realized I've forgotten about inertia-guided or GPS-guided weapons; but I feel that they will more or less remain the same, so long as the targets they're after (cities, fixed command bunkers, tanks, fuel depots, otherwise non-moving targets) exist. The guidance I'm getting more at is not intended for the deserted APC with 5-8 hyper-effective radio reflectors around it, but moving targets such as countermeasure-equipped armored vehicles, naval warships, or spaceborne targets. What do you think?

[Gallia-]

why are we engaging with this nonsense again, in this thread?

ye ):

stuff

dual band lwir/mwir with ladar for self guidance and obstacle avoidance

loitering

large grouping/flocking behavior al a starlings

basically all that junk they wanted in the 1990s with stuff like locaas or bat but would never get in any world

UV might be ok for communications but no targets would really emit it except maybe when firing

really far out stuff might satellite guidance via ghost imaging to penetrate clouds and smoke to detect targets for satellite connected swarms using deep UV for local commo vice microwaves or UHF radio i guess

maybe snipers firing uav guided munitions from long range for BLOS assassination using terminally guided projectiles and through-wall radars to locate targets

i think i made a jokepost about the spider mech bathtub fat president horatio trump-taft the 69th being shot by mohammad ibn al-londoni from 3 miles away by a radar guided flechette gun somewhere

it's not a totally absurd scenario for a very futuristic era of warfare focused less on destruction of field forces and more on personal leadership targeting

it would certainly fit with the trend line of the modern era leaving the 20th century and returning to the 14th century or so

[The Grand World Order]

The UK was at war with Germany in 1944, were they at war with West Germany in 1954?

yes, again

why do you think thatcher so heavily opposed the reunification and was against membership in the EU? it cost her her job but she realized the threat a unified germany would do, it would "dominate" europe in an economic sense

wars do not simply involve "shooting people until they die"

warfare is endemic to all group struggles, and all group struggles are ultimately warfare, thus all means available are important to be used

britain lost its war against germany as much as the us nearly did in the 90s to japan

newest hot take just dropped

policy disagreements and soft power competition are outright warfare, Brexit was Dresden firebombing 2.0

[The modern Durrani Empire]

yes, again

why do you think thatcher so heavily opposed the reunification and was against membership in the EU? it cost her her job but she realized the threat a unified germany would do, it would "dominate" europe in an economic sense

wars do not simply involve "shooting people until they die"

warfare is endemic to all group struggles, and all group struggles are ultimately warfare, thus all means available are important to be used

britain lost its war against germany as much as the us nearly did in the 90s to japan

newest hot take just dropped

policy disagreements and soft power competition are outright warfare, Brexit was Dresden firebombing 2.0

That is exactly the flaw in Gallia-s reasoning.

I'm the same person as the other "puppets."

[The Grand World Order]

On a totally different note

In the GWO military, officers put their resignation packages and are then put on a "twilight tour" managing the really loose militia program within the country. It's mostly ensuring that militia units are actually doing their monthly training and not sitting around getting shithoused at the local bar, and imparting some general knowledge/experience to the militia folks. Nothing too fancy, and the GWO militia usually ends up filling a civil defense role/being extra hands and bodies for disaster relief though they do train to participate in armed operations, and some of the really gucci units blow their money on dumb stuff like tanks the same way five-man police departments in the midwestern US buy MRAPs that then rust out in their parking lots

[Gallia-]

yes, again

why do you think thatcher so heavily opposed the reunification and was against membership in the EU? it cost her her job but she realized the threat a unified germany would do, it would "dominate" europe in an economic sense

wars do not simply involve "shooting people until they die"

warfare is endemic to all group struggles, and all group struggles are ultimately warfare, thus all means available are important to be used

britain lost its war against germany as much as the us nearly did in the 90s to japan

newest hot take just dropped

policy disagreements and soft power competition are outright warfare, Brexit was Dresden firebombing 2.0

itt gwo doesnt understand warfare exists on a spectrum

sad! many such cases

it's pretty staid and non-controversial actually lol

brexit was more like the london blitz since britain blew its own big toe off and it's not a big deal

much like the london blitz it's blown out of proportion by both sides since it's a net negative but a smol one

and yes "soft power competition" is literally warfare lol

soft power is just a cope and sneed for weaklings and wimp states that can't actually bulldoze their foes after all

why did japan bomb pearl harbor? because the usa embargoed its oil

why did the usa invent ITAR and comecon? to keep the ussr from maintaining its electronics lead that had accrued in the early 1970's

economic sanctions are just a siege on a continental scale

you might call a foreign intelligence spy ring "ipb" and a sanction "shaping" even since you are "targeting" "foreign assets" with them

anyway youre a nazi or whatever you should literally understand this the threadbare philosophical backing of fascism/hitlerism is race war lol

it's simpler than that though: if the purpose is to smack someone down instead of help them up, it's warfare, which is a pretty universal idea tbh

[Noocratic Callipolis]

newest hot take just dropped

policy disagreements and soft power competition are outright warfare, Brexit was Dresden firebombing 2.0

it's pretty staid actually lol

brexit was more like the london blitz since britain blew its own big toe off

and yes "soft power competition" is literally warfare lol

why did japan bomb pearl harbor? because the usa embargoed its oil

economic sanctions are just a siege on a continental scale

you might call a spy ring "ipb" and a sanction "shaping" even

itt gwo doesnt understand warfare exists on a spectrum

sad, many such cases

In context you implied it would be acceptable for a British NCO or JO to murder a West German serviceman in 1954 because he was taught to hate Germans.

[Gallia-]

it's pretty staid actually lol

brexit was more like the london blitz since britain blew its own big toe off

and yes "soft power competition" is literally warfare lol

why did japan bomb pearl harbor? because the usa embargoed its oil

economic sanctions are just a siege on a continental scale

you might call a spy ring "ipb" and a sanction "shaping" even

itt gwo doesnt understand warfare exists on a spectrum

sad, many such cases

In context you implied it would be acceptable for a British NCO or JO to murder a West German serviceman in 1954 because he was taught to hate Germans.

no, you just have poor reading comprehension and you keep sextuple posting with 37 puppet accounts please stop lmao bruh

if britain and germany were locked in a genocidal death war rather than a low level skirmish they might kill each other though

sadly they both just want market shares and the germans and british are willing to use force to achieve that when necessary

it's not much different than the CIA leveraging its intelligence assets to win over an industrial export contract to the middle east

germany and britain are competitors and long term threats to each other but they both view their external threats as bigger issues

britain isnt generally happy to be a german vassal but it's fine being an american vassal, and germany is an american vassal as well, so...

maybe in the far future if the PRC and Russia join Japan and Europe then the EU strategic threat will take primacy in US international outlook

in the early 1990's the biggest US long term threats were considered the Japanese and the German/European problem, which changed rapidly

this is not unlike the British Empire considering the French the most likely war threat in the 1920's after all even if they were both quite distant

[Immoren]

warfare exists on a spectrum

I guess I'm dumber than I thought because I'm not sure what x-axis is supposed to be, given they don't look like they're about severity.
But maybe I'm overthinking it and there's no actual x/y-graph and they're place for convinience.

[Gallia-]

warfare exists on a spectrum

I guess I'm dumber than I thought because I'm not sure what x-axis is supposed to be, given they don't look like they're about severity.
But maybe I'm overthinking it and there's no actual x/y-graph and they're place for convinience.

i don't think it's a graph it's just a wave to allow for more text to be stuffed without cluttering the top or bottom of the image

resemblance to a graph may be to prevent the need of ancient and semi-senile business degree holders from needing to parse new forms of info

otoh it's one of the few modern spectra of war that spells out what MOOTW and peace support operations actually are while stripped of the context of repurposed soviet lexicons tbh

it's interesting because it's by a guy who seems to be, rarely among americans, a man who understands that war is a total spectrum and encompasses everything of a society at all times

you only really see this thinking among marxist-leninists, since lenin was one of the first people to both articulate and demonstrate how to square the circle of total war with industrial policy

in practice the british empire did it first but no one in britain bothered to write down their thoughts, they weren't that systemic or total thinkers, whereas war requires a total ideology to understand

probably because democracy descends from common law and jurisprudence that demands strict analysis of specific cases and total ideologies descend from military-style algorithms and economics tbf

stuff like stuxnet and whatnot is under the international legal threshold for war, but it still constitutes a battle, as do things like bombing osirak, or supplying Saudi Arabia with M1 tanks

most everyone else who talks about this stuff seems to be a soulless automaton who hides their lack of knowledge of the philosophies of war by pseudo-mystical statements and w/e tho

other two US thinkers i can think of who fully understand the totalizing nature of war are COL W.P. Baxter and Antulio Echevarria II but one was steeped in Soviet thought and the other is an actual philosopher

CPT Rivera is dangerously close to an MBA (M.A. in Economics) but whoever he is cribbing from seems to know what they're talking about, maybe only because they're cribbing from the PRC and CCP though