NS Military Worldbuilding Thread No. 12

[Gallia-]

I'll just throw up there that Jean Huon's Proud Promise and Y. Buffetaut's and G. Demaison's Honour Bound are good reads for French rifles.

[Kerberos]

I was playing with a GSh-6-23 mated to a BTR-1, as far as I can tell it will fit into a standard BTR turret but, as with most Russian vehicles, the elevation is kind of meh. So what if you mounted the GSh-6-23 on a ZU-23-2 mount, then add armour plate to form a basic turret? it would be a pretty interesting SPAAG on a budget. Naturally the troop compartment would need to be given over to ammunition storage, because firerate.


Base BMP-1 turret, not the best rendition of the gun, but its as close to scale as pixel art allows.


And the home made turret version

[Omarios]

Overall, love the art and information, 100% agree that it would be crazy expensive to implement. On pavement or hard, level ground in a straight fight its a monster, the only real threat would be 100lbs+ IEDs with wired connections, massed RPG fire or another modern MBT (Heavy MBT?)

Personally if faced with this I would bug out, preferably to somewhere with steep grades and soft soil, without modern ATGMs, tanks or air support I would say its biggest threat is mobility kills. I will say that if the camera system works as advertised it would be amazing, especially in tight spots, the 30mm looks like it can elevate enough to hit anyone firing from rooftops.

If there is one deadly flaw, its the 3 man crew, thats a lot of guns to aim with 3 guys, and you would have a lot of blind-spots out of 360 camera range, might be able to get a seat into the 30mm turret, it would take a lot of pressure off the commander and increase the overall effectiveness.

But as I said, in my opinion, if you keep it off soft, messy ground, its a real monster no matter what...

I don’t think there would be a plausible solution to add a 4th crew member unless the turret was remodeled or the autoloader was removed, plus adding and training a whole crew member just for a variant seems pretty unreasonable to me. To add to this, my drawing of the 30mm isn’t 100% what I wanted it to be cuz I couldn’t find a proper reference online and I’m not that creative when it comes to lineart tbh; I wanted it to be a lot less thinner and sleeker but I guess a came up with an M60 commander cupola situation.

How I envisioned the 30mm gun to be used is that it would be constantly rotated by the commander as the tank is traversing through a city or urban environment while the main turret itself is kept in a single position. The commander would of course have his thermals on and once he’d spot a suspect heat signal in say a pretty big building with lots of windows, he’d proceed to splash said area with a couple of HE rounds. Not to mention that it would have a lot more elevation when compared to the main gun.

It seems way overarmed, particularly with heavy machine guns. It has more guns than the crew can actually use. It's turning into a mini-Baneblade.

HMGs are cool but the sheer size of their ammunition limits the amount that can be carried, and in turn makes them bad for suppression work (which is important in urban combat). This is why Abrams carries about a thousand rounds for the commander's .50 cal M2, but over ten thousand rounds for its two 7.62 mm M240s. It would be interesting to know how many rounds per machine gun this tank is carrying, especially given all of the additional non-HMG stuff that's been added and the fact that each 14.5 mm round is twice the volume of a .50 cal round.

The 30 mm seems rather unnecessary too. It makes the tank look as tall as a house (and thus much easier to spot), probably carries an insufficient amount of ammunition, and doesn't do anything that the rest of the guns don't. More importantly, this role is normally handled by supporting arms, either from an IFV or from a dedicated tank support vehicle like BMPT. It seems like a case of Swiss army knife syndrome, in which a specific vehicle is envisioned as fighting alone for some reason (and therefore must do everything), rather than as part of an integrated team in which roles can be divided and shared between different units.

When deciding what to add, it's worth considering what tanks bring to urban operations that other platforms don't already have. And that's a big gun and a lot of armor. They don't need to do everything, and overloading both the crew and the vehicle with many unnecessary weapons doesn't make the tank any more effective in its role. This is why IRL urban operations kits like TUSK don't focus on adding a ton of extra guns, but instead on addressing specific tank weaknesses: all-around protection (with the extra armor), crew protection (RWS in place of the crew-served commander's gun and armored shields around the hatches), awareness (additional optics), and coordination with supporting arms (tank telephone). IIRC out of all the components in TUSK, the least used one is the extra M2 mounted over the main gun, which is the only weapon added as part of the kit. Many tanks received the mount but few bothered fitting the gun.

As I mentioned earlier, the TUSK II was one of the primary inspirations when I made this thing. I remember seeing a photo of one with like 2-3 .50s on top and wanted to make something similar to that. But let’s be honest here, whether it was 1 or 100 HMGs on top, they’d very rarely be used in combat by an exposed crewman (at least that’s what I believe), especially nowadays where 90% of the time tanks are used in urban areas where an untrained combatant can appear out of literally anywhere, pop a lucky shot and go back into hiding. No army wants to lose a crewman acting Rambo when he’s in a tank.

I forgot to remove the pintle LMG which explains why there are 3 machine guns on top.

As for the 30mm, it was something I wanted to add because I liked the concept of it, like the T72 Moderna for example.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

I was playing with a GSh-6-23 mated to a BTR-1, as far as I can tell it will fit into a standard BTR turret but, as with most Russian vehicles, the elevation is kind of meh. So what if you mounted the GSh-6-23 on a ZU-23-2 mount, then add armour plate to form a basic turret? it would be a pretty interesting SPAAG on a budget. Naturally the troop compartment would need to be given over to ammunition storage, because firerate.

(Image)
Base BMP-1 turret, not the best rendition of the gun, but its as close to scale as pixel art allows.

(Image)

And the home made turret version

A BMP-1 would probably be better serviced by welding a GSh-23-2 on the 9M14's rail and otherwise modifying it into a BMP-1PG style turret.

Both types of GSh-23 had a nasty habit of overgassing in the breechface, meaning the turret would instantly flood with propellant-residue upon firing. BTW, that shit toxic, at least at those levels of concentration.

If you ever fully retire the BMP-1 turret, keep them, mount them onto armored trailers, add a bustle for batteries and a portable generator and counter that weight with some more frontal armor.
-Would make for a decent-ish armored cloche. Especially if it still has the GSh-23 mounted over the 73mm tube. Although even a DShk would be a fine additional coaxial for longer-range suppression than what a PKT can manage. IIRC, the IR night vision is pretty decent out to 400 meters and can see a bit further with illumination-shells (~900 neters). As a portable static mount, could even tie it in with some ground surveillance radar.

As for using the 23x115 shell for anti-air... muzzle velocity is on the low side, so your max effecit range is probably only 60% of a Zu-23-2, making it not much better than a ZPU-4 (quad-14.5mm KPVT).

[Hurtful Thoughts]

I'll just throw up there that Jean Huon's Proud Promise and Y. Buffetaut's and G. Demaison's Honour Bound are good reads for French rifles.

Isn't J. Huon also the dude that lifted a writeup on the CETME XR and thought it was real?

[Kerberos]

I was playing with a GSh-6-23 mated to a BTR-1, as far as I can tell it will fit into a standard BTR turret but, as with most Russian vehicles, the elevation is kind of meh. So what if you mounted the GSh-6-23 on a ZU-23-2 mount, then add armour plate to form a basic turret? it would be a pretty interesting SPAAG on a budget. Naturally the troop compartment would need to be given over to ammunition storage, because firerate.

(Image)
Base BMP-1 turret, not the best rendition of the gun, but its as close to scale as pixel art allows.

(Image)

And the home made turret version

A BMP-1 would probably be better serviced by welding a GSh-23-2 on the 9M14's rail and otherwise modifying it into a BMP-1PG style turret.

Both types of GSh-23 had a nasty habit of overgassing in the breechface, meaning the turret would instantly flood with propellant-residue upon firing. BTW, that shit toxic, at least at those levels of concentration.

If you ever fully retire the BMP-1 turret, keep them, mount them onto armored trailers, add a bustle for batteries and a portable generator and counter that weight with some more frontal armor.
-Would make for a decent-ish armored cloche. Especially if it still has the GSh-23 mounted over the 73mm tube.

So open roofed turret... Hilariously it looks like you'd maybe get 2000 rounds in a BMP at most, so 12 seconds firing time, 1000 rounds and 6 seconds being more likely. On the plus side the gun might make 6 to 12 reloads before burning out the barrels, so better then I was expecting.

The more I look at the concept, the more it feels like a field modification made by guys who have a grounded (or crashed) aircraft, a BMP with a mangled turret, a ZU-23-2 with a worn out barrel and some armour plate. Definitely not a factory conversion.


Probably fanciful, but people have made crazier stuff, take your gun, weld it to the launch rail or barrel, rig an ammo feed, then either a box on the side for a couple 100 rounds of into the turret for an internal magazine. In all cases its crazy janky... But at least nobody gases themselves or has to wear a gasmask while firing.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

A BMP-1 would probably be better serviced by welding a GSh-23-2 on the 9M14's rail and otherwise modifying it into a BMP-1PG style turret.

Both types of GSh-23 had a nasty habit of overgassing in the breechface, meaning the turret would instantly flood with propellant-residue upon firing. BTW, that shit toxic, at least at those levels of concentration.

If you ever fully retire the BMP-1 turret, keep them, mount them onto armored trailers, add a bustle for batteries and a portable generator and counter that weight with some more frontal armor.
-Would make for a decent-ish armored cloche. Especially if it still has the GSh-23 mounted over the 73mm tube.

So open roofed turret... Hilariously it looks like you'd maybe get 2000 rounds in a BMP at most, so 12 seconds firing time, 1000 rounds and 6 seconds being more likely. On the plus side the gun might make 6 to 12 reloads before burning out the barrels, so better then I was expecting.

The more I look at the concept, the more it feels like a field modification made by guys who have a grounded (or crashed) aircraft, a BMP with a mangled turret, a ZU-23-2 with a worn out barrel and some armour plate. Definitely not a factory conversion.


Probably fanciful, but people have made crazier stuff, take your gun, weld it to the launch rail or barrel, rig an ammo feed, then either a box on the side for a couple 100 rounds of into the turret for an internal magazine. In all cases its crazy janky... But at least nobody gases themselves or has to wear a gasmask while firing.

It's as though I'm describing something that's been done IRL. Or rather, could be done in a 5 minute pinch.

[Kerberos]

So open roofed turret... Hilariously it looks like you'd maybe get 2000 rounds in a BMP at most, so 12 seconds firing time, 1000 rounds and 6 seconds being more likely. On the plus side the gun might make 6 to 12 reloads before burning out the barrels, so better then I was expecting.

The more I look at the concept, the more it feels like a field modification made by guys who have a grounded (or crashed) aircraft, a BMP with a mangled turret, a ZU-23-2 with a worn out barrel and some armour plate. Definitely not a factory conversion.


Probably fanciful, but people have made crazier stuff, take your gun, weld it to the launch rail or barrel, rig an ammo feed, then either a box on the side for a couple 100 rounds of into the turret for an internal magazine. In all cases its crazy janky... But at least nobody gases themselves or has to wear a gasmask while firing.

It's as though I'm describing something that's been done IRL. Or rather, could be done in a 5 minute pinch.

Thats probably why it made perfect sense, apologies for any smart assery, I've learned more about soviet vehicles and the cool stuff people have done with them in the last couple days then in literally years of being an armchair general I'll post up my mechanized infantry company tonight, I'm thinking for an infantry battalion, 3 light infantry companies, and 1 mechanized infantry company. Ideally there would be enough trucks to keep everyone moving properly but it sucks to be war torn and broke.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

It's as though I'm describing something that's been done IRL. Or rather, could be done in a 5 minute pinch.

Thats probably why it made perfect sense, apologies for any smart assery, I've learned more about soviet vehicles and the cool stuff people have done with them in the last couple days then in literally years of being an armchair general I'll post up my mechanized infantry company tonight, I'm thinking for an infantry battalion, 3 light infantry companies, and 1 mechanized infantry company. Ideally there would be enough trucks to keep everyone moving properly but it sucks to be war torn and broke.

Well, BMP-1PG is a 1P but with an AGS-17 mounted in the gunner's side bustle and elevation is controlled from within remotely.

This was often done in addition to the 1D up-armoring that stopped it from being amphibious in order to better survive mine-blasts or RPG shells to the lower glacis.

[Kerberos]

Armoured Infantry Company

3x platoons
Command Section
4x Support Sections (Mech Recon Support Section, 2x Armoured Mortar Section, Mech Air Defence Section)

Command Section
Captain – Makarov Pm, AKS-74U
1st Lieutenant – Makarov Pm, AKS-74U
2x Communication Specialists – AKS-74U
Sergeant (Vehicle Commander) – AKS-74U
Driver (Trooper Special) – AKS-74U
Gunner (Trooper Special) – AKS-74U
BMP 1-Mod16 (Standard BMP 1 with 3 passenger seats replaced with upgraded radio equipment and a small map table, the left half of the troop compartment is treated as a radio-room and the right half is a very small command center.)

Mech Recon Support Section
Sergeant – AKS-74U with GP-25
2xCommunication Specialist – AKS-74U
Corporal – FAL Para
2xDesignated Marksman – FAL Mod 33 (modified FAL Para with heavy barrel, bipod and scope)
4x troopers – 4x FAL Para, 1xRGM-40 Kastet, 2x Ithaca 37 or MTS12-21 shotguns
2xUAZ-469, (Tops removed, carries a post mounted MG3)
*Notes: Recon Sections serve as scouts, pickets and artillery spotters.

Armoured Mortar Section
Sergeant – AKS-74U
1x Forward observer
1x Communication Specialist – AKS-74U
9x mortarmen – 9x FAL Para
3x BTR-152 “Frankenstein” Mortar Carriers (BTR-152 pulled from storage, rebuilt with a 210hp Navistar T444E diesel engine, and fitted with a 82-BM-37 82mm mortar)

Mech Air Defence Section
Sergeant – AKS-74U
1x Communication Specialist – AKS-74U
5x Troopers – FAL Para
3x 9k34 Strela-3 SAMs
BTR-152 “Frankenstein” Transport (BTR-152 pulled from storage, rebuilt with a 210hp Navistar T444E diesel engine, and fitted with a ring mounted DShK or AGS-17 Grenade Launcher)

Platoon

Platoon Headquarters section
1x Mech Light Mortar Team
1x Mech Antitank Team
3x Armoured Rifle Sections

Platoon Headquarters
1st or 2nd Lieutenant – Makarov Pm, AKS-74U
Platoon Sergeant – AKS-74U
Communication Specialist – AKS-74U
Platoon Medic – Makarov Pm
Sergeant (Vehicle Commander) – AKS-74U
Driver (Trooper Special) – AKS-74U
Gunner (Trooper Special) – AKS-74U
1x BMP 1-Mod16 (Standard BMP 1 with 3 passenger seats replaced with upgraded radio equipment and a small map table, the left half of the troop compartment is treated as a radio-room and the right half is a very small command center.)

Mech Light Mortar Section
Sergeant – AKS-74U
1x Communication Specialist – AKS-74U
9x mortarmen – 6x FAL Para 3x AKS-74U
3x M57 60mm Mortars
3xUAZ-469, (Tops removed, carries a post mounted MG3)



Mech Antitank Team
Corporal – FAL Para
1x Communication Specialist – AKS-74U
5x Troopers – 5xFAL Para, 2x RPG-7
BTR-152 “Frankenstein” ATGM Carrier (BTR-152 pulled from storage, rebuilt with a 210hp Navistar T444E diesel engine, and fitted with a AT-4 Spigot ATGM)

Armoured Rifle Section
Sergeant – AKS-74U with GP-25
Corporal – FAL Para
Designated Marksman – FAL Mod 33 (modified FAL Para with heavy barrel, bipod and scope)
7x Troopers – 5x FAL Para, 2x MG3 LMG, 1x RPG-7
Sergeant (Vehicle Commander) – AKS-74U
Driver (Trooper Special) – AKS-74U
2x Gunner (Trooper Special) – AKS-74U
BTR-60-Mod 4 (Received 7mm armoured roof, water jet and trim vane removed, fitted with a 210hp Navistar T444E diesel engine, 2x ring mounted DShK, MG3, or AGS-17 Grenade Launchers, and bolt on 10mm armoured front plates)

Thats probably why it made perfect sense, apologies for any smart assery, I've learned more about soviet vehicles and the cool stuff people have done with them in the last couple days then in literally years of being an armchair general I'll post up my mechanized infantry company tonight, I'm thinking for an infantry battalion, 3 light infantry companies, and 1 mechanized infantry company. Ideally there would be enough trucks to keep everyone moving properly but it sucks to be war torn and broke.

Well, BMP-1PG is a 1P but with an AGS-17 mounted in the gunner's side bustle and elevation is controlled from within remotely.

This was often done in addition to the 1D up-armoring that stopped it from being amphibious in order to better survive mine-blasts or RPG shells to the lower glacis.

I like that a lot, I suspect it would be a special issue deal in my army, or homemade by some clever armourer or mechanic. The extra armour is needed on pretty much all those old IFVs and APCs, I was surprised how thin it actually is. I think up-armour kits are going to be pretty much standard issue, probably some kind of spaced armour arrangement, intended to be bolted or more likely welded on.

[Gallia-]

A platoon doesn't need three mortars TBH. Maybe one, but you're talking about a bunch of guys who are within shouting distance of each other (more or less). A company would want that many mortars, or about, and 60mm is a good company mortar caliber. You'd usually setup the mortar squad/section near the captain's view of the battle area and each platoon drops 60mm rounds as they pass through to the jump off point for the mortar team to use, though. A typical 60mm mortar has several kilometers of range and a typical rifle company rarely exceeds 4-5 kilometers in frontage with all its platoons on a line. Typically it's closer to half that, which is more than enough for a mortar to cover the entire company from one spot.

Platoon support weapons are generally extremely small ATGW (Eryx, Corsar, etc.), recoilless rifles/rocket launchers (Carl Gustaf, RPG-7), tiny smoke grenade projectors (2" mortar, LGI Mle F1), and light machine guns (PKM, M60). Sometimes this can include designated marksmen with rifles like the SVD or SR-25 that hit individual things (guys with machine guns or anti-tank gunners in pillboxes) out to 600 meters or so to compliment the beaten zone of the machine guns.

You can probably have most of that stuff rolled up into the platoon HQ with a pair of guys with a 60mm "commando" type mortar for smoke lobbing, or the old 2-inch L9A1, and the anti-tank team can probably have a lightweight ATGW like a Corsar or Metis. You can just swap the RPG-7s for that, since the RPG-7s in the rifle squads will be enough to cover the close range dead zone of the ATGW teams.

Other than that nitpick, it's looking good.

[Kerberos]

A platoon doesn't need three mortars TBH. Maybe one, but you're talking about a bunch of guys who are within shouting distance of each other (more or less). A company would want that many mortars, or about, and 60mm is a good company mortar caliber. You'd usually setup the mortar squad/section near the captain's view of the battle area and each platoon drops 60mm rounds as they pass through to the jump off point for the mortar team to use, though. A typical 60mm mortar has several kilometers of range and a typical rifle company rarely exceeds 4-5 kilometers in frontage with all its platoons on a line. Typically it's closer to half that, which is more than enough for a mortar to cover the entire company from one spot.

Platoon support weapons are generally extremely small ATGW (Eryx, Corsar, etc.), recoilless rifles/rocket launchers (Carl Gustaf, RPG-7), tiny smoke grenade projectors (2" mortar, LGI Mle F1), and light machine guns (PKM, M60). Sometimes this can include designated marksmen with rifles like the SVD or SR-25 that hit individual things (guys with machine guns or anti-tank gunners in pillboxes) out to 600 meters or so to compliment the beaten zone of the machine guns.

You can probably have most of that stuff rolled up into the platoon HQ with a pair of guys with a 60mm "commando" type mortar for smoke lobbing, or the old 2-inch L9A1, and the anti-tank team can probably have a lightweight ATGW like a Corsar or Metis. You can just swap the RPG-7s for that, since the RPG-7s in the rifle squads will be enough to cover the close range dead zone of the ATGW teams.

Other than that nitpick, it's looking good.

I'm wondering about a weapons team, as they're mechanized, weapon weight is less of an issue, and ammunition load is greatly increased.

Mech Fire Support Section
Sergeant – AKS-74U
1x Communication Specialist – AKS-74U
1x Anti-material Team (3 troopers, 1x KSVK12.7, 2x FAL Para)
1x AGS-17 Team (4 Troopers, 1x AGS-17, 4x FAL Para)
1x Smoke Team (3 Troopers, 1x M57 60mm Mortar, 3x FAL Para)
3xUAZ-469, (Tops removed, carries a post mounted MG3)

After looking at the armour of Soviet APCs and IFVs, an anti-material rifle is a decent threat to most of them, plus trucks, light fortifications and the occasional bit of sniping as needed makes it a pretty solid tool, IMO. Its not a perfect solution but it can fill a lot of holes

I'm keeping one mortar, they'll be issued a few HE shells, but its main role will be delivering smoke, WP and illumination shells.

If all else fails, each truck has a MG3, so they can provide a bit of mobile firepower too.

[Laka Strolistandiler]

How should a modern armed merchant cruiser be armed to deter attacks from corvette-sized vessels? I’m thinking that a couple of SA-N-9 Gauntlets should get the job done?

[Gallia-]

How should a modern armed merchant cruiser be armed to deter attacks from corvette-sized vessels? I’m thinking that a couple of SA-N-9 Gauntlets should get the job done?

A couple .50 caliber machine guns and some chaff dischargers should be fine. If it's a military merchant ship it might have a bolt-on 20-30mm machine gun like a Phalanx fore and aft.

The main concern for a merchant ship would be the actual ability to detect it is under attack (they don't have ESM after all) and being able to intercept a missile. A self-contained CIWS with a search radar, like a Phalanx, takes care of this and I think you can link up SRBOC or something to it. Military merchant ships already typically have provisions for military personnel aboard to take care of the weapons and equipment so it's not a huge deal, provided the weapons are kept limited in number. Four .50 cals and two non-penetrating CIWS on the deck is more than adequate.

A platoon doesn't need three mortars TBH. Maybe one, but you're talking about a bunch of guys who are within shouting distance of each other (more or less). A company would want that many mortars, or about, and 60mm is a good company mortar caliber. You'd usually setup the mortar squad/section near the captain's view of the battle area and each platoon drops 60mm rounds as they pass through to the jump off point for the mortar team to use, though. A typical 60mm mortar has several kilometers of range and a typical rifle company rarely exceeds 4-5 kilometers in frontage with all its platoons on a line. Typically it's closer to half that, which is more than enough for a mortar to cover the entire company from one spot.

Platoon support weapons are generally extremely small ATGW (Eryx, Corsar, etc.), recoilless rifles/rocket launchers (Carl Gustaf, RPG-7), tiny smoke grenade projectors (2" mortar, LGI Mle F1), and light machine guns (PKM, M60). Sometimes this can include designated marksmen with rifles like the SVD or SR-25 that hit individual things (guys with machine guns or anti-tank gunners in pillboxes) out to 600 meters or so to compliment the beaten zone of the machine guns.

You can probably have most of that stuff rolled up into the platoon HQ with a pair of guys with a 60mm "commando" type mortar for smoke lobbing, or the old 2-inch L9A1, and the anti-tank team can probably have a lightweight ATGW like a Corsar or Metis. You can just swap the RPG-7s for that, since the RPG-7s in the rifle squads will be enough to cover the close range dead zone of the ATGW teams.

Other than that nitpick, it's looking good.

I'm wondering about a weapons team, as they're mechanized, weapon weight is less of an issue, and ammunition load is greatly increased.

It's not really. If anything it would be reduced. Mechanized troops have to be able to sit inside a truck and light infantry can just have like 10 guys carrying a single light machine gun if they're going to walk everywhere.

Mech Fire Support Section
Sergeant – AKS-74U
1x Communication Specialist – AKS-74U
1x Anti-material Team (3 troopers, 1x KSVK12.7, 2x FAL Para)
1x AGS-17 Team (4 Troopers, 1x AGS-17, 4x FAL Para)
1x Smoke Team (3 Troopers, 1x M57 60mm Mortar, 3x FAL Para)
3xUAZ-469, (Tops removed, carries a post mounted MG3)

None of these weapons are useful if you have BTRs equipped with 14.5mm machine guns and 30mm grenade launchers to begin with?

After looking at the armour of Soviet APCs and IFVs, an anti-material rifle is a decent threat to most of them, plus trucks, light fortifications and the occasional bit of sniping as needed makes it a pretty solid tool, IMO. Its not a perfect solution but it can fill a lot of holes

Just use an RPG-7 it will kill things. BMP-1s can be made proof against 12.7mm fairly trivially and even a PTRS isn't going to stop more than one or two. An RPG will be more dangerous and more useful in general.

I'm keeping one mortar, they'll be issued a few HE shells, but its main role will be delivering smoke, WP and illumination shells.

Yes that's fine for a platoon.

If all else fails, each truck has a MG3, so they can provide a bit of mobile firepower too.

It would probably be better to give them .50 cals and AGLs on skates of their trucks if you're so intent on having heavy weapons in a motor rifle platoon.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

I'm wondering about a weapons team, as they're mechanized, weapon weight is less of an issue, and ammunition load is greatly increased.

After looking at the armour of Soviet APCs and IFVs, an anti-material rifle is a decent threat to most of them, plus trucks, light fortifications and the occasional bit of sniping as needed makes it a pretty solid tool, IMO. Its not a perfect solution but it can fill a lot of holes

I'm keeping one mortar, they'll be issued a few HE shells, but its main role will be delivering smoke, WP and illumination shells.

If all else fails, each truck has a MG3, so they can provide a bit of mobile firepower too.

Yeah, the BMO-1 -a BMP-2 with half the passenger compartment gutted for thermobaric rocket-launchers and reloads for the 4 remaining infantry- was seen as twice as combat-effective as a normal BMP-2, but was unpopular with crews due to them becoming a priority target in Grozny.
-Eventually this led to the BMO-T and it's cousin BMP-T, otherwise known as the BMPT-72 or Terminator.

It housed like 40 rockets. America and ARVN had a similar arrangement with the M113 as "ACAV" where they essentially manned it below-par in order to cram more dakka in the can. The logical conclusion of both was that it was mad-max on tracks like the gun-trucks.

BYW, there was eventually a thermobarric shell for the SPG-9, and there's nothing really stopping you from firing it out a 2A28 Grom.
-Also, 60mm anti-bunker yeetus-deletus

Also picturing a BTR-60 with a GSh-23-2 duct-taped to the KPVT.
Brrrrrrrrrrrrrt. And Brrrt-brrrt. Meet fwoosh-fwoosh-fwoosh.

The situation changed dramatically in the early 1990s, following the disintegration of the Soviet Union
and Yugoslavia. More than two dozen new states were formed on the former Soviet and Yugoslav
territories, and bloody ethnic conflicts erupted. Some of these fledgling countries had insufficient
combat aircraft, pilots, or logistical support networks to effectively field a close air support capability,
but had access to large stores of aircraft munitions, which in many cases had been left behind
during the Soviet withdrawal. As a result, during the conflicts waged in ex-Soviet and ex-Yugoslavian
republics in the 1990s, numerous fighting forces fielded improvised MLRS and direct fire support
vehicles based around unguided air-to-surface rockets. Chief amongst these were systems firing the
57 mm S-5 and 80 mm S-8 rockets.

[Dtn]

becoming a priority target in Grozny.

always a problem when you install a flux capacitor

[Hurtful Thoughts]

becoming a priority target in Grozny.

always a problem when you install a flux capacitor

Right, did not officially enter service until a year after the war officially ended, officially of course.
-Not counting the insurgency that was more-or-less still ongoing even as I started an account here.

In either case, the chemical-troops were cited to opt to move around in MT-LBs instead.

[Gallia-]

I'm wondering about a weapons team, as they're mechanized, weapon weight is less of an issue, and ammunition load is greatly increased.

After looking at the armour of Soviet APCs and IFVs, an anti-material rifle is a decent threat to most of them, plus trucks, light fortifications and the occasional bit of sniping as needed makes it a pretty solid tool, IMO. Its not a perfect solution but it can fill a lot of holes

I'm keeping one mortar, they'll be issued a few HE shells, but its main role will be delivering smoke, WP and illumination shells.

If all else fails, each truck has a MG3, so they can provide a bit of mobile firepower too.

Yeah, the BMO-1 -a BMP-2 with half the passenger compartment gutted for thermobaric rocket-launchers and reloads for the 4 remaining infantry- was seen as twice as combat-effective as a normal BMP-2, but was unpopular with crews due to them becoming a priority target in Grozny.

That's crazy considering the Firebugs didn't show up until 2001, well over a year after the end of the Second Chechen War and the capture of Grozny by Federal troops...

always a problem when you install a flux capacitor

Right, did not officially enter service until a year after the war officially ended, officially of course.

Lol.

Soviet super science is able to make machines appear before they're actually produced, especially in its Russian form, clearly.

Of course, Firebug's development history is really well documented and there is a person literally on this forum who was part of trials of these experimental chassis like BMO and BMPT, but sure, believe whatever bizarre alternate history you want. Meanwhile in real life, whatever BMOs existed in 1999 were in polygons being trialed for automotive problems and such before partaking in parades long after that. There is no known incidents of destroyed BMOs or whatever in Chechnya. Chemical troops don't come out for guerrillas, after all, and the primary use of assault troops with RPOs was in Dagestan and prior to the initial assault on Grozny (RPOs were obviously used, just not explicitly by Chemical Troops). That's the job of the Rosguard and the MVD.

This is very much unlike a certain Eastern European conflict where losses of armor are pretty much constantly flowing in and there are multiple wrecked BMO-Ts from Carl Gustafs and Skif missiles literally on the Internet you can look up if you want.

In either case, the chemical-troops were cited to opt to move around in MT-LBs instead.

Did it ever occur to you that the Firebugs were intended as a replacement for the lightly armored and lightly armed MT-LB in RChBD battalions? Lol.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

Soviet super science is able to make machines appear before they're actually produced, especially in its Russian form, clearly.

Of course, Firebug's development history is really well documented and there is a person literally on this forum who was part of trials of these experimental chassis like BMO and BMPT, but sure, believe whatever bizarre alternate history you want. Meanwhile in real life, whatever BMOs existed in 1999 were in polygons being trialed for automotive problems and such before partaking in parades long after that. There is no known incidents of destroyed BMOs or whatever in Chechnya. Chemical troops don't come out for guerrillas, after all, and the primary use of assault troops with RPOs was in Dagestan and prior to the initial assault on Grozny (RPOs were obviously used, just not explicitly by Chemical Troops). That's the job of the Rosguard and the MVD.

This is very much unlike a certain Eastern European conflict where losses of armor are pretty much constantly flowing in and there are multiple wrecked BMO-Ts from Carl Gustafs and Skif missiles literally on the Internet you can look up if you want.

In either case, the chemical-troops were cited to opt to move around in MT-LBs instead.

Did it ever occur to you that the Firebugs were intended as a replacement for the lightly armored and lightly armed MT-LB in RChBD battalions? Lol.

Yeah, I was sorta thinking about the June 2005 special operations along the border with Dagestan, which was conducted by "Russian-backed Chechen spetsnaz", that just happened to be headquartered in Grozny... and was carbombed around the same timeframe.

Delightful chaps, I'm sure.

[Kerberos]

I looked at it again and realized I was over thinking it, so I cut away the redundant stuff.


Mech Fire Support Team
Sergeant – AKS-74U
1x Communication Specialist – AKS-74U
1x Smoke Team (3 Troopers, 1x M57 60mm Mortar, 3x FAL Para)
1xUAZ-469, (Top removed, carries a post mounted MG3)

And I am literally drooling over those thermobaric rounds, I used to work in a sawmill and in some areas the sawdust accumulation was basically a thermobaric bomb. Definitely made for some interesting days...https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2012/04/25/massive_bc_sawmill_explosion_claims_second_life.html Definitely makes you respect the science behind thermobaric weapons.

I'm Just imaging a full mortar battery letting a salvo of thermobaric rounds go.

I'll see your anti-bunker yeetus-deletus and raise you a Magic landing zone clearerhttp://vmz.bg/en/%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%83%D0%BA%D1%86%D0%B8%D1%8F/%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8-%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%B8/120%D0%BC%D0%BC-%D0%B8%D0%B7%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BB-%D1%81-%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0/

"thus reducing
the number of civilian casualties to a minimum"

[Frisemark]

Currently trying to justify operating souped-up non-export (the in-universe version of Russia is a close Frisik ally and neither of us impose equipment export restrictions on each other) Su-25 models purely because I've been playing too much DCS and think it's cool, very well knowing that attack aircraft in the vein of the Su-25 and A-10 are outdated in pure concept/idea.

Someone give me a convincing argument on how this is a totally financially sound decision and very great and wise.

I mean, I'll probably do it anyway, but I need to be able to justify it to my subconscious.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

Currently trying to justify operating souped-up non-export (the in-universe version of Russia is a close Frisik ally and neither of us impose equipment export restrictions on each other) Su-25 models purely because I've been playing too much DCS and think it's cool, very well knowing that attack aircraft in the vein of the Su-25 and A-10 are outdated in pure concept/idea.

Someone give me a convincing argument on how this is a totally financially sound decision and very great and wise.

I mean, I'll probably do it anyway, but I need to be able to justify it to my subconscious.

A relatively inexpensive way to give combat-pilots flying-hours in what is nominally a combat-aircraft/tactical-bomber. Although not as capable on their own, their presence could provide extra bomb-weight to a a precision strike-package, assuming someone else is lasing the targets.

They can also fly as tankers.

And sometimes, you just REALLY need to saturate a 5 km stretch of road-convoy with cluster-bombs and scatterable mines.
-And if your strategic bombers don't like flying nap-of-earth, are probably going to be your only viable option in a Ukraine-situation.

[Gallia-]

Soviet super science is able to make machines appear before they're actually produced, especially in its Russian form, clearly.

Of course, Firebug's development history is really well documented and there is a person literally on this forum who was part of trials of these experimental chassis like BMO and BMPT, but sure, believe whatever bizarre alternate history you want. Meanwhile in real life, whatever BMOs existed in 1999 were in polygons being trialed for automotive problems and such before partaking in parades long after that. There is no known incidents of destroyed BMOs or whatever in Chechnya. Chemical troops don't come out for guerrillas, after all, and the primary use of assault troops with RPOs was in Dagestan and prior to the initial assault on Grozny (RPOs were obviously used, just not explicitly by Chemical Troops). That's the job of the Rosguard and the MVD.

This is very much unlike a certain Eastern European conflict where losses of armor are pretty much constantly flowing in and there are multiple wrecked BMO-Ts from Carl Gustafs and Skif missiles literally on the Internet you can look up if you want.



Did it ever occur to you that the Firebugs were intended as a replacement for the lightly armored and lightly armed MT-LB in RChBD battalions? Lol.

Yeah, I was sorta thinking about the June 2005 special operations along the border with Dagestan, which was conducted by "Russian-backed Chechen spetsnaz", that just happened to be headquartered in Grozny... and was carbombed around the same timeframe.

Delightful chaps, I'm sure.

You do realize "Chechen levies" and "RChBD Troops" are different things, right? Right?

Currently trying to justify operating souped-up non-export (the in-universe version of Russia is a close Frisik ally and neither of us impose equipment export restrictions on each other) Su-25 models purely because I've been playing too much DCS and think it's cool, very well knowing that attack aircraft in the vein of the Su-25 and A-10 are outdated in pure concept/idea.

Someone give me a convincing argument on how this is a totally financially sound decision and very great and wise.

I mean, I'll probably do it anyway, but I need to be able to justify it to my subconscious.

They exist and people fly them. That's all the justification you really need.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

Yeah, I was sorta thinking about the June 2005 special operations along the border with Dagestan, which was conducted by "Russian-backed Chechen spetsnaz", that just happened to be headquartered in Grozny... and was carbombed around the same timeframe.

Delightful chaps, I'm sure.

You do realize "Chechen levies" and "RChBD Troops" are different things, right? Right?

Yeah, but weren't they often attached to escort the 40th RChBD troops as part of the 58th Combined Arms Army?

They're in Crimea, now. So that's new.

At the very least, those would've been the chemical-corps troops to show up to advise the Beslan school siege.

[Gallia-]

You do realize "Chechen levies" and "RChBD Troops" are different things, right? Right?

Yeah, but weren't they often attached to escort the 40th RChBD troops as part of the 58th Combined Arms Army?

They're in Crimea, now. So that's new.

Blowing up a house with an RPO in rural Dagestan or the Chechen hinterlands is a normal police operation in Russia.

The 40th NBC Defense Regiment neither existed nor had Firebugs in any combat actions in Grozny lol. The primary chemical troops weapon was the TOS-1 in Grozny, while infantry and Marine units had RPOs, and the integration of Chemical Defense Regiments with field armies/corps didn't occur until...2012. Which, if we do the math, is a full decade plus after Grozny???

You really do live up to your name holy cow.