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NS Military Worldbuilding Thread No. 12

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Gallia-
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Postby Gallia- » Sun Jul 24, 2022 6:50 pm

Yes the dolphin thing is silly. As I said, the animal was probably scared more by the fact that shark knives are loud and startling more to an underwater animal than they are peaceful. It's just typical animal trainer nonsense lol. The fact that they interpreted it as trauma is a good tell that they aren't actually scientists, but probably trainers or instructors, who masquerade as scientists pretty often.

Anyway Kyiv's point, and mine in greater verbosity, is that PTSD is hard to distinguish actual PTSD from traumatic events (which is incredibly rare) and fake PTSD from people malingering or seeking social cachet (which is quite common and overrepresented in "veteran" schemata in American culture) which is probably much higher, outside of the relatively small number of people who don't know what PTSD looks like or can't fake a multiple choice test lol. Actual incidences of PTSD of troops in combat is less than 5-8% for males. Women have it at a much higher incidence, nearly triple or quadruple that at between 12-20%, but women are not as good at regulating emotions, in particular negative emotions, as men, so that tracks.

So it's genuinely quite rare. Most people will have a "traumatic" event in their life, and most people won't be affected directly by it in the long term, either. Modern Anglo-American and Western culture at large, however, creates incentives to fake it, because it glamorizes trauma. It's also a lonely culture, which makes it hard to find social needs fulfilled without resorting to drastic measures, which further increases the incentive to malinger.

That's all, it's not a particularly complex idea, just somewhat difficult for me to articulate in particular I guess. Psychiatric disorders are weird because they often tie into compensation for low social status or whatever and this can make the difference between "genuine" and "fake" all by itself. Someone can present fully the clinical symptoms of depression, having literally willed themselves a depressive, by the desire to find friends or by being surrounded by similarly depressed people, out of sheer loneliness. PTSD and depression are often co-morbid in over 90% of cases, and whether that's down to poor diagnostic practices (again, it's usually diagnosed using a self-reporting checklist) or a weak methodological framework is an open question.

If all you have to go on is what someone is willing to tell you and what you're able to find out through interaction with peers, it's not hard for someone to exaggerate symptoms of feigned psychiatric illness into actual illness.

Hence, "schemata transmitted disease" lol.
Last edited by Gallia- on Sun Jul 24, 2022 6:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Allanea » Sun Jul 24, 2022 7:00 pm

Actual incidences of PTSD of troops in combat is less than 5-8% for males.


Image
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Gallia-
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Postby Gallia- » Sun Jul 24, 2022 7:05 pm

Allanea wrote:
Actual incidences of PTSD of troops in combat is less than 5-8% for males.


Image


Is this an honest question or whatever? It's pretty well known that PTSD affects maybe 1 or 3/100 soldiers lol.

Depending on who you ask the incidence is as low as 1.5% and as high as 9-12%, depending on which definition you use, what variety of Asiatic Horde the US Army is currently fighting, and who specifically you're talking about. Incidence of PTSD tends to rise in wartime but only very slightly. Its nominal year incidence rate according to NIH is something like 1.5-3% and during Iraq/Afghanistan it jumped up to 5-8% if you believe the VA.

Data have also demonstrated that service-connected veterans reported increasingly worsening symptoms of PTSD until reaching 100 percent disability, followed by an 82 percent decrease in their use of VA mental health services (without a change in their use of VA medical services).


This is a particularly spicy one. PTSD literally being used as a handout and exaggeration of symptoms by malingerers. Reported incidences at VA is something like 1/3rd of claimed PTSD is malingerers but this is probably higher.

Here's another spicy one:

The point prevalence of combat-related PTSD in US military veterans since the Vietnam War ranges from about 2 – 17%. Studies of recent conflicts suggest that combat-related PTSD afflicts between 4 – 17% of US Iraq War veterans, but only 3 – 6% of returning UK Iraq War veterans.


US troops may very well have higher "incidence rates" of PTSD because the VA shells out big bucks to get you higher on disability pay. The UK doesn't have anything like this so there's less of a financial incentive to report PTSD or whatever. The genuine rates may be closer to the UK in practice, with the rest being malingerers or something.

Is PTSD fake? No, some people really do have trouble processing emotions because their brains are smaller volume than average. Does this happen to soldiers? ...generally not. At least US Army soldiers tend to be selected precisely because they are intelligent, but this also means that they're good at faking PTSD, precisely for fiscal gaming of the VA handout system. So which is it? Literally no one knows, but probably a good number of them are malingering until that 100% disability locks in.

It suggests that the VA should either stop paying out for "mental illness" disability and only pay for physical disabilities, or it should have some sort of asylum or sanitarium system like the USSR did, where veterans with mental disabilities can be watched and insured that they are doing things like taking their medication, attending group therapy, etc. My preferred solution is the latter because it's genuinely frightening if you haven't been locked up in a mental hospital before and it will scare people away from feigning an illness that will get them locked in effectively a prison where they have to take SSRIs and are watched for suicide 24/7. It will also help catch people who actually cannot help themselves, but what use that is I'm not sure, besides perpetuating itself. I guess it helps the families feel secure that their loved ones are being watched, safely kept alive in a cage, and can have meaningful human contact with people who have experiences similar to theirs. It would also be easier to sell to people.

Historically, though, sanitariums were literally because a family couldn't afford or didn't care to watch over the crippled, insane, or elderly kin, so instead of dying from old age/broken bones/palsies, they sent them to a sanitarium or spa or whatever. So that is a very trad system anyway. More points to it IMO.
Last edited by Gallia- on Sun Jul 24, 2022 7:31 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Postby Allanea » Sun Jul 24, 2022 7:08 pm

Thank you, these are useful links.
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Postby Gallia- » Sun Jul 24, 2022 7:13 pm

The last one is particularly good because it compares WW2, Vietnam, and Iraq Wars IIRC. The PTSD diagnosis rate has decreased over time, which might be reflecting the increased intelligence of US Army troops (especially since the 1990's when low IQ troops in the sub-95 IQ range were effectively barred from service by Congressional order) with higher ASVAB scores tbh.

Shockingly enough (to no one), the Forrest Gump farm oaf in Vietnam ended up suffering mental horrors he had no emotional capacity to deal with or linguistic ability to share with, and probably contributed to that huge spike. Oof. But that's what you get for putting brainlets on the frontlines.
Last edited by Gallia- on Sun Jul 24, 2022 7:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Gonswanza » Sun Jul 24, 2022 9:30 pm

Gallia- wrote:
Allanea wrote:
Image


Is this an honest question or whatever? It's pretty well known that PTSD affects maybe 1 or 3/100 soldiers lol.

Depending on who you ask the incidence is as low as 1.5% and as high as 9-12%, depending on which definition you use, what variety of Asiatic Horde the US Army is currently fighting, and who specifically you're talking about. Incidence of PTSD tends to rise in wartime but only very slightly. Its nominal year incidence rate according to NIH is something like 1.5-3% and during Iraq/Afghanistan it jumped up to 5-8% if you believe the VA.

Data have also demonstrated that service-connected veterans reported increasingly worsening symptoms of PTSD until reaching 100 percent disability, followed by an 82 percent decrease in their use of VA mental health services (without a change in their use of VA medical services).


This is a particularly spicy one. PTSD literally being used as a handout and exaggeration of symptoms by malingerers. Reported incidences at VA is something like 1/3rd of claimed PTSD is malingerers but this is probably higher.

Here's another spicy one:

The point prevalence of combat-related PTSD in US military veterans since the Vietnam War ranges from about 2 – 17%. Studies of recent conflicts suggest that combat-related PTSD afflicts between 4 – 17% of US Iraq War veterans, but only 3 – 6% of returning UK Iraq War veterans.


US troops may very well have higher "incidence rates" of PTSD because the VA shells out big bucks to get you higher on disability pay. The UK doesn't have anything like this so there's less of a financial incentive to report PTSD or whatever. The genuine rates may be closer to the UK in practice, with the rest being malingerers or something.

Is PTSD fake? No, some people really do have trouble processing emotions because their brains are smaller volume than average. Does this happen to soldiers? ...generally not. At least US Army soldiers tend to be selected precisely because they are intelligent, but this also means that they're good at faking PTSD, precisely for fiscal gaming of the VA handout system. So which is it? Literally no one knows, but probably a good number of them are malingering until that 100% disability locks in.

It suggests that the VA should either stop paying out for "mental illness" disability and only pay for physical disabilities, or it should have some sort of asylum or sanitarium system like the USSR did, where veterans with mental disabilities can be watched and insured that they are doing things like taking their medication, attending group therapy, etc. My preferred solution is the latter because it's genuinely frightening if you haven't been locked up in a mental hospital before and it will scare people away from feigning an illness that will get them locked in effectively a prison where they have to take SSRIs and are watched for suicide 24/7. It will also help catch people who actually cannot help themselves, but what use that is I'm not sure, besides perpetuating itself. I guess it helps the families feel secure that their loved ones are being watched, safely kept alive in a cage, and can have meaningful human contact with people who have experiences similar to theirs. It would also be easier to sell to people.

Historically, though, sanitariums were literally because a family couldn't afford or didn't care to watch over the crippled, insane, or elderly kin, so instead of dying from old age/broken bones/palsies, they sent them to a sanitarium or spa or whatever. So that is a very trad system anyway. More points to it IMO.

"Smaller volume"

Last I checked the only people who have such a deformed lump of grey matter that is literally kicking around in their skull either have some major birth defects that cuts down their lifespan into the single digits or are practically incapable of joining the military, even though conscription... But that aside, everything else seems to hold true, objectively.

Unless you meant that as an opinion or an insult, then it just flew over my head.
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Dtn
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Postby Dtn » Sun Jul 24, 2022 9:41 pm

what

you do realize not everybody has brain structures of the same size, right???

they aren't even static through a person's lifetime

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Postby Gonswanza » Sun Jul 24, 2022 9:44 pm

Dtn wrote:what

you do realize not everybody has brain structures of the same size, right???

they aren't even static through a person's lifetime

Internal structure, not overall general size.

If someone managed to have a brain half the size of the average humans I can put money on them being on life support for what little time they'd have outside of the womb as they race to the grave at breakneck speed.
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Dtn
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Postby Dtn » Sun Jul 24, 2022 10:03 pm

Brain size variation of 50% or so is perfectly normal.

Gonswanza wrote:If someone managed to have a brain half the size of the average humans I can put money on them being on life support for what little time they'd have outside of the womb as they race to the grave at breakneck speed.


pretty sure babies have a much smaller brain than the average human, but it turns out you even can live a fairly adult normal life with remarkably little brain volume
Last edited by Dtn on Sun Jul 24, 2022 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Gallia-
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Postby Gallia- » Sun Jul 24, 2022 10:11 pm

Gonswanza wrote:
Gallia- wrote:
Is this an honest question or whatever? It's pretty well known that PTSD affects maybe 1 or 3/100 soldiers lol.

Depending on who you ask the incidence is as low as 1.5% and as high as 9-12%, depending on which definition you use, what variety of Asiatic Horde the US Army is currently fighting, and who specifically you're talking about. Incidence of PTSD tends to rise in wartime but only very slightly. Its nominal year incidence rate according to NIH is something like 1.5-3% and during Iraq/Afghanistan it jumped up to 5-8% if you believe the VA.



This is a particularly spicy one. PTSD literally being used as a handout and exaggeration of symptoms by malingerers. Reported incidences at VA is something like 1/3rd of claimed PTSD is malingerers but this is probably higher.

Here's another spicy one:



US troops may very well have higher "incidence rates" of PTSD because the VA shells out big bucks to get you higher on disability pay. The UK doesn't have anything like this so there's less of a financial incentive to report PTSD or whatever. The genuine rates may be closer to the UK in practice, with the rest being malingerers or something.

Is PTSD fake? No, some people really do have trouble processing emotions because their brains are smaller volume than average. Does this happen to soldiers? ...generally not. At least US Army soldiers tend to be selected precisely because they are intelligent, but this also means that they're good at faking PTSD, precisely for fiscal gaming of the VA handout system. So which is it? Literally no one knows, but probably a good number of them are malingering until that 100% disability locks in.

It suggests that the VA should either stop paying out for "mental illness" disability and only pay for physical disabilities, or it should have some sort of asylum or sanitarium system like the USSR did, where veterans with mental disabilities can be watched and insured that they are doing things like taking their medication, attending group therapy, etc. My preferred solution is the latter because it's genuinely frightening if you haven't been locked up in a mental hospital before and it will scare people away from feigning an illness that will get them locked in effectively a prison where they have to take SSRIs and are watched for suicide 24/7. It will also help catch people who actually cannot help themselves, but what use that is I'm not sure, besides perpetuating itself. I guess it helps the families feel secure that their loved ones are being watched, safely kept alive in a cage, and can have meaningful human contact with people who have experiences similar to theirs. It would also be easier to sell to people.

Historically, though, sanitariums were literally because a family couldn't afford or didn't care to watch over the crippled, insane, or elderly kin, so instead of dying from old age/broken bones/palsies, they sent them to a sanitarium or spa or whatever. So that is a very trad system anyway. More points to it IMO.

"Smaller volume"


Yes. Smaller volume. It's one of the most statistically significant signs of PTSD that your left and right amygdalae, and left hippocampus, are small. The right hippocampus isn't though, but that's because it does different stuff outside the realm of ordinary memories (it's primarily the spatial mapping organ).

Gonswanza wrote:Last I checked the only people who have such a deformed lump of grey matter that is literally kicking around in their skull either have some major birth defects that cuts down their lifespan into the single digits or are practically incapable of joining the military, even though conscription... But that aside, everything else seems to hold true, objectively.


People who are prone to getting PTSD probably do join the military, and then get traumatized and suffer from a variety of mental disturbances for however long it takes for them to grow out it, because their brains cannot handle the stress at that time. This has probably been mitigated somewhat by reducing the quantity of low IQ people through standardized tests like the ASVAB, as people with lower IQs have weaker emotional capacity due to a variety of reasons (poor language capacity, poor emotional reasoning, etc.) not necessarily related to the causes of PTSD, but being stupider definitely makes you more likely to suffer debilitating trauma. This is why McNamara's 100,000 produced such high incidence of PTSD (in addition to other negative things).

People with PTSD and depression have smaller volume amygdalae and hippocampi than normal though. This is a fact. People who don't get these disorders have normal or above average volumes, which means they're better at processing emotional disturbances. Since PTSD is primarily an emotional disturbance disorder, it's pretty clear that having a smaller nexus of emotional regulation is...bad?

Whether PTSD causes this, or whether this can be caused by other things such as lack of exposure to diverse worldviews during childhood, is a bit of a chicken and an egg question. It's pretty clear that children who suffer from childhood traumas (Breivik's mass shooting) and have PTSD also have reduced amygdala volumes. Whether that's a result of PTSD or predisposition is unknown, but I think it's probably a bit of both and children, since they lack fully developed PFCs, are probably at a greater preponderance of suffering PTSD should they encounter a traumatic event compared to an adult in their 20's or something. But an adult in their late teens or early 20s should have a fully developed amygdala and while it may get bigger (maybe) it's unlikely to change significantly enough to produce any sort of protective or debilitative effects.

It's entirely plausible, for instance, that amygdala volume may very well be influenced by early childhood exposure to like-minded people and general social wellness events such as religious congregation or homogeneous school, and the lack of these things in modern urban societies in places like America could be maladaptive to children's development, but that's a fairly broad question.

Gonswanza wrote:Unless you meant that as an opinion


No, it's a fact. People with PTSD, and a few other mental diseases, have measurably smaller volumes when it comes to the emotional regulation complexes of the brain.

some dudes wrote:(...) We provide converging evidence of long-term effects of a traumatic event during adolescence on amygdala volume. More specifically, traumatized youths showed reduction of amygdala volume with increase in PTSD symptom severity 24–36 months post-trauma, which is in line with previous studies in PTSD patients25,32. Perhaps more interestingly, the subdivision analyses revealed that the negative association between amygdala volume and symptom severity could be ascribed to the nuclei of the BLA complex as well as the right central and medial nuclei. However, only the lateral nucleus was associated with individual PTSD symptom development, and mediated the association between short- and long-term PTSD symptoms. The results indicate that the various amygdala nuclei may be differentially associated with cross-sectional and longitudinal measures of PTSD symptom load. Future studies may therefore benefit from considering the amygdala as a heterogeneous brain area, when understanding the relationship between amygdala structure and PTSD.

One possible explanation for the conflicting amygdala volumetric findings in PTSD may be that previous studies have treated the amygdala as a homogeneous entity, and not taken its structural and functional heterogeneity into account25. The nuclei of the BLA and the CMA have unique cellular architectures and structural connections37, which is reflected in their distinct roles in fear learning- and regulation8,38. In line with this notion, the volume of the individual amygdala nuclei may be uniquely affected in disorders altering fear sensation39. Moreover, whereas increased spinogenesis and dendritic growth of principal and stellate neurons have been reported in the BLA following severe stress16,17, a loss of stellate neuron spines may occur in the CMA nuclei18,19. Finally, preliminary findings from human functional imaging studies suggest that the BLA and the CMA differ in terms of activity20 and functional connectivity21 in PTSD, further suggesting that these complexes should be considered separately in trauma- and stress-related disorders40,41.

We here report a negative association between long-term (i.e. 24–36 months) PTSD symptom severity and the nuclei of the BLA complex. The results are corroborated by findings of unique structural alterations of the BLA in animals exposed to repeated restraint stress40,41. Although stress-dependent structural changes in animals are mainly trophic40,41, it has been suggested that the initial volumetric expansion may be followed by a long-term volumetric reduction in humans42. This is plausible, given that the BLA contains abundant glucocorticoid receptors41, and thus stress and excessive amounts of glucocorticoids may have direct and indirect neurotoxic effects on the BLA complex, inhibiting dendritic expansion and even causing neuronal loss. Furthermore, other stress-related mental illnesses like depression are also associated with initial amygdala volumetric increases43 followed by volumetric reductions upon recurrent depressive episodes44. Of note, rodents with smaller BLA show stronger conditioned fear responses and corticosteroid responses to stress45, and humans with a genetically rare disease (Urbach-Wiethe) damaging the BLA show increased vigilance in response to threat cues46. As such, the increased arousal and vigilance, which is part of the PTSD symptom complex may be at least partially mediated by structural changes in BLA. This is further suggested by an inverse relationship between total amygdala volume and amygdala activity47, providing a link between our findings and the more frequently reported amygdala hyperactivity in PTSD13.

We also found evidence for an association between long-term PTSD symptom severity and concurrent volumes of the central and the medial nuclei. A recent study using vertex-based neuroimaging identified specific abnormalities in the morphology of the CMA which scaled with PTSD load24. In addition, a study in young PTSD patients found altered gray matter density and intrinsic connectivity of both the BLA and CMA complexes48. The central nucleus of the CMA is essential for fear expression and autonomic arousal in response to threat cues, and receives numerous connections from the lateral and basal nuclei7. Interestingly, the communication between the lateral and the central nucleus is regulated by prefrontal inputs49. As such, aberrant medial prefrontal—BLA connectivity in PTSD patients21 may facilitate signaling through the lateral—central nuclei route, with potential consequences for the central nucleus structure. Nevertheless, a combined effect on both the BLA and CMA could explain why PTSD is likely to affect both fear learning and expression, and also why extinguishing fear is so difficult in this disorder50,51.

We had the unique opportunity to investigate the association between PTSD symptom severity acquired at several time-points (i.e. 4–5, 14–15 and 24–36 months) post-trauma and long-term amygdala nuclei volumes. Interestingly, we found that the individual PTSD symptom development was closely related to the lateral nucleus volume 24–36 months post-trauma. Moreover, the right lateral nucleus volume mediated the association between short- and long-term PTSD symptoms. The findings are in line with a recent study showing that amygdala reactivity immediately following the index trauma is related to PTSD symptoms months post-trauma6. In addition, previous studies have reported that amygdala reactivity to affective stimuli pre-deployment positively predicted post-deployment PTSD symptoms in military samples52,53, and that post-traumatic stress symptoms in the aftermath of an index trauma were negatively associated with total amygdala volume 24 years later54. The present study extends these findings by showing that the long-term lateral nucleus volume is associated with early symptom development, and indeed may mediate the association between short-and long-term outcome. As such, nuclei of the BLA may be an essential target of early interventions including pharmacological or psychological treatments following trauma, to prevent the development of chronic PTSD.

Although our study may add novel insight into the association between amygdala volume and PTSD, several questions remain unanswered. One important question relates to whether lower amygdala nuclei volumes are a consequence of the extreme stress exposure per se or represent a preexisting vulnerability for developing PTSD. Findings of altered amygdala morphology in animals exposed to stress16,17,18,19 as well as altered structure and function in humans exposed to early life adversity55,56 may suggest an effect of stress per se. In contrast, the observation of reduced amygdala volume in PTSD patients relative to trauma-exposed control subjects without PTSD15 is comparable with the hypothesis that lower amygdala volume is a heritable risk factor for developing or a consequence of having PTSD. However, to directly answer this question would require research studies using prospective, longitudinal designs and twin studies. (...)


The ethics committee won't allow me to grow children in a basement to determine if PTSD is related to heritable amygdala volume or actual stress reaction is just a heat gun to amygdala's EPS foam, sadly. Mouse models are unreliable and basically freakshow mutants at this point, at least it's true for cancer mice, but then I'm willing to bet it's true for brain mice. Never send a rat to do a chad's job.

Gonswanza wrote:
Dtn wrote:what

you do realize not everybody has brain structures of the same size, right???

they aren't even static through a person's lifetime

Internal structure, not overall general size.


Yes, size. Your amygdala is (or should be) bigger in your 20's than it is in your tweens lol. Ditto your PFC and hippocampi structures. If they aren't you are probably going to turn into a man child or something equally terrifying. Curiously, the amygdala develops faster in orphans than in family reared children, although this has no actual effect in hippocampi structure, and has been correlated with depression, so being too big produces similar effects to being too small; although you can probably conceptualize depression to be more an overactive brain, whereas PTSD is an underactive one. Alternatively, depression could simply have nothing to do with the amygdala (it's not a emotional disturbance disorder, after all), and simply be a result of a smaller hippocampal volume.

OTOH since the whole emotional regulatory complex involves multiple regions of the brain, they probably have a golden ratio they all need to stay within to avoid mental disturbances and diseases like depression or PTSD in general. I guess this applies to a lot of systems in the brain. It's pretty much an animal unto itself unlike stinky stomach (yucky!) or heart (pump go brr lol cardiology is e-z-p-z). This would indicate that PTSD is likely tied to a smaller amygdala rather than a hippocampal volume itself, and might explain why PTSD and depression are so comorbid, but that was probably talked about in some weird paper from 2014.

Gonswanza wrote:If someone managed to have a brain half the size of the average humans I can put money on them being on life support for what little time they'd have outside of the womb as they race to the grave at breakneck speed.


lol
Last edited by Gallia- on Sun Jul 24, 2022 10:17 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Dtn
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Postby Dtn » Sun Jul 24, 2022 10:29 pm

anyway I don't think this brain talk really answers the question as well as "people increasingly lack the moral fiber to get through relatively easy lives so they spin lurid fantasies of hyper-competent psychopaths since they can't imagine normal people having the strength and resiliency to endure and even enjoy stressful situations"
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Gallia-
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Postby Gallia- » Sun Jul 24, 2022 10:31 pm

more or less yes

the same people who do things like extreme skydiving in another world might partake in gladiatorial blood sports i guess
Last edited by Gallia- on Sun Jul 24, 2022 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Allanea » Sun Jul 24, 2022 11:28 pm

#HyperEarthBestEarth

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Postby The Grand World Order » Tue Jul 26, 2022 5:04 pm

Gallia- wrote:more or less yes

the same people who do things like extreme skydiving in another world might partake in gladiatorial blood sports i guess


which really harkens back to my second post: are these people enjoying, specifically, the act of murdering another person or are they dopamine chasing because their body rewards them for not dying in a situation where they could very easily die?

Dtn wrote:anyway I don't think this brain talk really answers the question as well as "people increasingly lack the moral fiber to get through relatively easy lives so they spin lurid fantasies of hyper-competent psychopaths since they can't imagine normal people having the strength and resiliency to endure and even enjoy stressful situations"


I think there's a big difference between normal people being able to endure stressful combat situations without serious issues (nobody on my team in Afghanistan was particularly bothered by the things that happened there, oh no it's an anecdote) and the anime-villain-tier "HE LAUGHS AS HE MACHINE GUNS THE BABIES AND THEN SHOOTS HIS SUBORDINATE TO STEAL HIS FLAMETHROWER AND BURN WHAT'S LEFT BECAUSE HE LOVES TO MURDER" nonsense that I remember (and even kind of participated in as an edgy teenager) from the Jolt era of NS. Atrocities happen of course, but are usually rooted in something more than "they're big meanies."
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Postby Dtn » Tue Jul 26, 2022 6:24 pm

The Grand World Order wrote: "they're big meanies."


The Aber wrote:Drinking a mug of coffee in less than two minutes is making me lose my mind right after the stimulation wears off. And I'm feeling a certain [rather uncanny and uncomfortable] way at the moment. Now imagine that + bath salts + meth + cocaine. That equals death for normal humans, and is plowing mighty close to the cotton for Aber.

And they just kill. Nothing extra like at the Nanjing Massacre. Just straight up slaughter and pseudo-cannibalism. I would say that, in my world, the North Koreans like portray the Americans as such vile creatures. Then again, the whole bombing run thing during the Korean War was a trip, and I'm sure people's perceptions on whodunnit we're very blurred. Which still isn't any of excuse to confuse the average built Caucasian American soldier dressed in uniform with an rather under-the-influence member of an amber-skinned, dark brown-haired, tall and muscular superhuman species that's currently shirtless, disheveled, and eating someone's mutilating corpse.


*fanged grin*


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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Hurtful Thoughts » Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:12 pm

The Grand World Order wrote:I think there's a big difference between normal people being able to endure stressful combat situations without serious issues (nobody on my team in Afghanistan was particularly bothered by the things that happened there, oh no it's an anecdote) and the anime-villain-tier "HE LAUGHS AS HE MACHINE GUNS THE BABIES AND THEN SHOOTS HIS SUBORDINATE TO STEAL HIS FLAMETHROWER AND BURN WHAT'S LEFT BECAUSE HE LOVES TO MURDER" nonsense that I remember (and even kind of participated in as an edgy teenager) from the Jolt era of NS. Atrocities happen of course, but are usually rooted in something more than "they're big meanies."


TFW you write such a wholesome demon-loving super-soldier you actually break a person in realtime ICly and OOCly:
Congreveopia wrote:The Dark Division soldiers were probably less than a minute from being massacred when Kayora had called up this impromptu truce. Nexus wasn’t connected to Leighton for whatever reason. He had next to no assets at his disposal anymore, and Kayora had her squad back under her command. The Hurtis had a mixture of wounds; the Congreveopians were down one airship and probably dozens of soldiers. They were in a worse tactical position than before the operation began, and they were the ones supposedly orchestrating this ambush.
---
“This isn’t why I joined the Platinum Soldiers. This isn’t why the Platinum Soldiers were made. And I can only see that now, because, despite everything, Kayora will risk her life to try and save everyone. Because the Hurti team understands what it means to be a soldier, not a murderer, and because my government doesn’t. Because Nexus doesn’t. Because maybe even Leighton doesn’t.”


I probably should've taken notes.

Yet in like... 10 posts later she casually kills a few hundred dudes.

Well, she didn't think it was casual, but everybody kinda just glossed over the body-count.
-But don't worry, there's a tactical-hug for that.

Drinking a mug of coffee in less than two minutes is making me lose my mind right after the stimulation wears off. And I'm feeling a certain [rather uncanny and uncomfortable] way at the moment. Now imagine that + bath salts + meth + cocaine. That equals death for normal humans, and is plowing mighty close to the cotton for Aber.

Twin-fisting espresso.

30 seconds.

Let's go.

Besides, methamphenidate is one hell of a 240 milligram pill to take. A pot of coffee per hour is cheaper.
Last edited by Hurtful Thoughts on Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:27 pm, edited 9 times in total.
Factbook and general referance thread.
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Due to population-cuts, military-size currently being revised

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Vavlar
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Ex-Nation

Postby Vavlar » Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:08 pm

Anyone have any idea of modern tactics, hell even mideval or steppe warfare?

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Hurtful Thoughts
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Hurtful Thoughts » Wed Jul 27, 2022 5:02 pm

Vavlar wrote:Anyone have any idea of modern tactics, hell even mideval or steppe warfare?

Yes, what did you have in mind?

Or are you just presuming you're edgier than the rest?
Last edited by Hurtful Thoughts on Wed Jul 27, 2022 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Factbook and general referance thread.
HOI <- Storefront (WiP)
Due to population-cuts, military-size currently being revised

The People's Republic of Hurtful Thoughts is a gargantuan, environmentally stunning nation, ruled by Leader with an even hand, and renowned for its compulsory military service, multi-spousal wedding ceremonies, and smutty television.
Mokostana wrote:See, Hurty cared not if the mission succeeded or not, as long as it was spectacular trainwreck. Sometimes that was the host Nation firing a SCUD into a hospital to destroy a foreign infection and accidentally sparking a rebellion... or accidentally starting the Mokan Drug War

Blackhelm Confederacy wrote:If there was only a "like" button for NS posts....

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Vavlar
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Ex-Nation

Postby Vavlar » Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:45 pm

Hurtful Thoughts wrote:
Vavlar wrote:Anyone have any idea of modern tactics, hell even mideval or steppe warfare?

Yes, what did you have in mind?

Or are you just presuming you're edgier than the rest?

Such as how to find tactical advantagdes, when to strike, what movements should be done, which part of your armies should move. Things like that.

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Allanea
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Allanea » Thu Jul 28, 2022 12:54 am

This is a fairly broad and complex subject and cannot really be taught by means of just entering a forum thread and asking people to teach you.

It's probably ideal to go forth and read some books about this subject - I recommend starting by reading some of the simpler Osprey books, and then moving on to more complex ones (usually the Osprey books have recommendations at the end for further reading).
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Spirit of Hope
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Spirit of Hope » Thu Jul 28, 2022 4:02 am

As Allanea already noted tactics is a broad and complex topic that changes a lot based on technology and culture of the nations involved in the conflict. We aren't going to be able to give a lot of detail across things as broad as modern, medieval, or steppe warfare just through posts here. If you have a specific area you would want to know more about we could give you details or suggest books that would have more details for you to learn from.
Fact Book.
Helpful hints on combat vehicle terminology.

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Hrstrovokia
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Corporate Police State

Postby Hrstrovokia » Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:48 am

What kind of strategies would you employ to stop your airbases from coming under air attack and attack on the ground, say by special forces?

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Cossack Peoples
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Corporate Police State

Postby Cossack Peoples » Thu Jul 28, 2022 12:04 pm

Having high-school graduate national guardsmen or something along those lines on patrol cars or armored cars with MGs mounted to dissuade special forces around your base. After all, though SOF are more specialized and better trained units they still don't have the firepower to take on mechanized infantry on anything more than a one-to-one basis.

As for air, you could be preventative; strike enemy airbases within range, keep air interdiction patrols going to deter nearby refueling operations meant to go around the lack of nearby airbases, use tactical or theatre ballistic missiles to knock out fuel depots and ruin airbases, or use your own special forces to give airbases a hard time. Once a potential attack is in the air and en route it might just come down to having your planes up and ready to cut down the incoming attack to a more survivable level. Having surface to air missile batteries try to funnel aircraft away from a direct path might also be of use, though costly if they come under attack. Also, if the enemy spends more time trying to root out SAMs than bombing your runways that's time you could use to send out more sorties.

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