NS Military Worldbuilding Thread No. 12

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

What's the best low cost Ground Attack option - manned or unmanned?

An MQ-9 with six racks for Starstreak or APKWS.

[Gallia-]

"Whatever is closest" is probably a better answer tbh.

Although replacing the entire tactical air force with MQ-9s might be kinda woke, or it might not be. It's not quite cheap enough to be expended like a cruise missile, as it's like losing an Apache or something.

Turkey uses RQ-7s with a pair of 5-100 kg bombs.

OTOH it's pretty Soviet to replace all manned low altitude aircraft with drones, it just requires a very robust SATCOM capability to fly the plane very far. Or a lot of chunky radios.

[Immoren]

Repurposed propeller trainers obviously.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Repurposed propeller trainers obviously.

An-2, comrade Vladimir sticking out of the side door with a PKM, 4-8 RPG-29's under the wings.

[Dayganistan]

You're not thinking cheap enough. Quadcopter drone from Amazon carrying a mortar shell to release over the target.

[Hrstrovokia]

Repurposed propeller trainers obviously.

A-29 would be good?

[Celritannia]

What's the best low cost Ground Attack option - manned or unmanned?

People on bicycles and holding long pointy sticks.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

What's the best low cost Ground Attack option - manned or unmanned?

People on bicycles and holding long pointy sticks.

explodey, pointy sticks

[The Manticoran Empire]

What's the best low cost Ground Attack option - manned or unmanned?

People on bicycles and holding long pointy sticks.

Hang glider.

[Gallia-]

What's the best low cost Ground Attack option - manned or unmanned?

People on bicycles and holding long pointy sticks.

Yes, "fast vehicle that exceeds turret tracking speed" is indeed lethal.

[Barfleur]

Repurposed propeller trainers obviously.

A-29 would be good?

Yes, those are versatile and low-cost. Also the pilots would presumably be familiar with them from advanced training. Also better than a helicopter, for reasons I can pull up from earlier in this thread or in the Air Force thread (can't remember which).

[The Corparation]

Repurposed propeller trainers obviously.

An-2, comrade Vladimir sticking out of the side door with a PKM, 4-8 RPG-29's under the wings.

The Colt is perfect for ground attack right up until the moment a CIA Agent leans out the door of his Huey and caps you with an AK.

[Amidia-]

OTOH it's pretty Soviet to replace all manned low altitude aircraft with drones, it just requires a very robust SATCOM capability to fly the plane very far. Or a lot of chunky radios.

don't make fun of me

[Mansuriyyah Islamic State]

Hi there

What would be a good organization for a brigade-sized garrison unit? Such units would be manned by reservists, called in in time of necessity to protect an specific region/district/town, defending critical facilities, chekpoints and combating sabotage and guerrilla groups.

[Ideal Britain]

Are infantry units trained to use less-lethal weapons such as batons?

[Dayganistan]

Are infantry units trained to use less-lethal weapons such as batons?

No. Infantry units are trained to kill with rifles, machine guns, grenades and bayonets. Military police however would be trained to use such weapons in case they are called upon to support civilian authorities for riot control.

[The Manticoran Empire]

Are infantry units trained to use less-lethal weapons such as batons?

Why would they be? The purpose of an infantry unit is to close with and destroy the enemy, using grenades and small arms to take and hold positions of importance and then hold those positions until relieved. The only close combat weapon an infantryman is likely to have is a bayonet and the only less-than-lethal weapon would be a stun grenade.

[Dtn]

What

[Immoren]

Hi there

What would be a good organization for a brigade-sized garrison unit? Such units would be manned by reservists, called in in time of necessity to protect an specific region/district/town, defending critical facilities, chekpoints and combating sabotage and guerrilla groups.

"Normal" brigades should be fine.
Although for that kind of job I guess you could go for "brigade consisting of battalion battlegroups" also I guess.

[Gallia-]

Are infantry units trained to use less-lethal weapons such as batons?

Why would they be?

It's rather commonly trained for, and somewhat obvious as to why, lol.

Are infantry units trained to use less-lethal weapons such as batons?

No. Infantry units are trained to kill with rifles, machine guns, grenades and bayonets. Military police however would be trained to use such weapons in case they are called upon to support civilian authorities for riot control.

How to use shield: Stand behind it.
How to use baton: Hit someone with it.

These aren't exactly weapons which require high intellect or great finesse to use. This is an accurate depiction of use of baton and sword.

Military police receive more training writing speeding tickets for the 12 AM tractor pull/drag strip down a fully illuminated 300 meter empty stretch.

[The Manticoran Empire]

Why would they be?

It's rather commonly trained for, and somewhat obvious as to why, lol.

I fail to see the point in teaching an infantry soldier crowd control when you could be furthering their primary mission training: infantry combat.

Also, the specific image you posted was not Infantry soldiers recieving standard training but soldiers of the 3/38 Cavalry, 201st Battlefield Surveillance Brigade conducting specialized training for possible domestic employment in 2012. In general, infantry units will not recieve crowd control training, since it takes away from their primary mission.

[Gallia-]

It's rather commonly trained for, and somewhat obvious as to why, lol.

I fail to see the point in teaching an infantry soldier crowd control when you could be furthering their primary mission training: infantry combat.

They're not infantrymen, they're cavalry troopers, although I guess the point is moot since 3d Cav is organized as a Stryker brigade, and most cavalrymen are infantrymen all but in name.

Anyway their "primary mission" is riot control.

Weren't you in the Marines or something? You should know this, unless you were a non-combat/low general technical MOS like a truck driver or something I guess.

It's rather commonly trained for, and somewhat obvious as to why, lol.

I fail to see the point in teaching an infantry soldier crowd control when you could be furthering their primary mission training: infantry combat.

Also, the specific image you posted was not Infantry soldiers recieving standard training but soldiers of the 3/38 Cavalry, 201st Battlefield Surveillance Brigade conducting specialized training for possible domestic employment in 2012. In general, infantry units will not recieve crowd control training, since it takes away from their primary mission.

Yeah they're motorized infantry. 38th Cavalry Regiment provided infantrymen for a couple bizarre Transformation-era organizations that tried to merge infantrymen and drones and predictably lost the infantrymen.

Yeah infantry units receive a lot of crowd control training because it's typically one of their primary missions of the past 20-odd years. By "a lot" I mean a dozen trainers show up and trains a company or battalion for a weekend or so. This should really go without saying, anyone who has any experience in Army or Marine combat units for the past literal 30 years would know this. It's been a facet of DOD infantry training since the end of Desert Storm and only recently has DOD decided it should focus more on fighting Russians. Even then 11th ACR still has their low-tech/insurgent/Donbass cosplay at Fort Irwin going on so riot control is going to be a big deal for training for a while.

Most guys going to Afghanistan or Iraq in infantry units would be part of battalions or brigades that at least received rudimentary riot training because standing around with batons observing shouting protests is normal there.

But again you were in the Marines so you should already know this lol. I guess I'm preaching to the choir lmao.

It would have been the time that you had riot shields and batons passed out and the CPT or LT or whatever from NWIC slaps your shield and tells you to keep it up so you don't get beaned by a softball when the other half of the platoon rushes you and tries to break through your shield wall.

Naturally the hardest part about riot control training isn't actually using shields to stop softballs, or hitting people with sticks. It's not atomizing into a comical morass of bodies where each riot control trooper is overwhelmed by four or five rioters and beaten up and has his shield and baton taken. That's embarrassing and sad since most rioters are tiny stick peasant people and apparently better organized as a group than the ostensibly "trained" soldiers they decide to fight.

But the NWIC guys would have told you this when you were deploying to dangerous places like Oakland or Norway and had a weekend to learn how to work as a group in close order, classical (Romanesque) infantry tactics.

After all, what's more "infantryman" than "a bunch of well drilled, muscular lads with shields and sticks beating up a bunch of disorganized, disheveled, impoverished farm oafs with pitchforks and fire bombs" or whatever? That's been the infantryman's real job since the times of Darius, Hammurabi, and Ur-Nammu.

Unless you were a truck driver or some other low T lame job in the military, i.e. one that doesn't involve fighting, you would have done it, though. Lol. That's assuming you were ever in the Marines or Army or whatever, of course.

Hi there

What would be a good organization for a brigade-sized garrison unit? Such units would be manned by reservists, called in in time of necessity to protect an specific region/district/town, defending critical facilities, chekpoints and combating sabotage and guerrilla groups.

"Normal" brigades should be fine.
Although for that kind of job I guess you could go for "brigade consisting of battalion battlegroups" also I guess.

Dumbla uses Home Guard for riot control so a bunch of dads show up with gridiron pads and round shields and tell you to go home.

It usually works but sometimes they have to yell louder because a car is honking or something.

Unless you're French then they shoot back without asking.

IIRC Dumbla's Home Guard are organized geographically so every town of like 10,000 people has a company of like 100-120 people who are Guardsmen and a central armory with their equipment, and they gather for battalion sized training exercises twice a year or something. Usually the one company that runs the biggest armory also has a bunch of trucks or vans, takes care of the other armories' heavy equipment, and stores heavier weapons like mortars or 84mm RCLRs. So there's like four companies that are foot infantry who go protect the post office and city courthouse and tell you to go home if you're walking around at night past curfew, and one company is motor infantry who show up if food rioters try to break into the rice warehouse to steal mochi or something.

They all receive more training finding lost children, rescuing cats in trees, and being able to quickly navigate to the nearest rugby or baseball field blindfolded than shooting though, of course. Because Dumbla trains as it fights for realistic national threats: sad children, lost kittens, and not being late for the kids' sportsball practice.

Ostensibly they also have the ability to fight enemy commandos and insurgents but this is mostly just Your Dad(TM) running off of 20+ year old half-remembered battle drills rather than actual practice. So lots of shouting, radio use, and extant but poor coordination, rather than proper battle drilling which would be relatively little radio use or shouting because everyone knows roughly where everyone else is and what they themselves and other people should be doing. So like the US National Guard I guess. Probably won't help against commandos, but is probably more than enough to liquidate punks with Sten guns or something I guess.

Then again Dumbla has the HM Coast Guard for real anti-commando stuff.

[Crookfur]

Are infantry units trained to use less-lethal weapons such as batons?

In the BA the answer is obviously yes as public order duties have been a fact of life since the 70s.

Giving the squaddies sticks and sheilds and giving them a couple of afternoons to practise beating each other up and do some specific drills is a no brainer. It will likely be a part of any pre-employment work up.

Baton and crowd dispersal round deployment will typically require a specialist course.

The Indian army definitely do it too but they use less helmets and Sheila's and much bigger sticks.

[Dtn]

Also, the specific image you posted was not Infantry soldiers recieving standard training but soldiers of the 3/38 Cavalry, 201st Battlefield Surveillance Brigade conducting specialized training for possible domestic employment in 2012.

Would the scene be remarkably different if it was 41st Infantry Regiment or whatever training for an international deployment?



Hmm...guess not.

Not sure what "standard training" is?

Anyway as Crookfur noted the answer depends. US regular infantry units might only train in crowd control prior to being deployed on stability operations, National Guard, Marines or British Army light-role battalions may have periodic civil disturbance training as a matter of course.

It's rather commonly trained for, and somewhat obvious as to why, lol.

I fail to see the point in teaching an infantry soldier crowd control when you could be furthering their primary mission training: infantry combat.

Why would they be? The purpose of an infantry unit is to close with and destroy the enemy, using grenades and small arms to take and hold positions of importance and then hold those positions until relieved.

What is the mission of infantry again?

[Celritannia]

People on bicycles and holding long pointy sticks.

Yes, "fast vehicle that exceeds turret tracking speed" is indeed lethal.

They never said it had to be practical