NS Military Worldbuilding Thread No. 12

[Triplebaconation]

Oof.

I guess that was (O) rather than (T).

Also OH-1 costs approximately the same as an UH-60M lol.

Drop tanks aren't exactly super-science.

[Hinachi]

Re: the cost discussion in general, I think its hard enough as it is to compare prices from different years, because there isn't a measure of military equipment inflation and using consumer inflation would not be accurate. BTW for OH-1 it didn't get a data link until after 2005, not sure if the cost of that is added on to airframes built from 2005 onwards.

Except for that four year lunch break

Again note how backwards Japan actually fixed problem instead of employing advanced Western MBA concepts such as let helicopter fall from sky

It was closer to 3 years and 3 months, but to me it did seem slow. Was that an unusually long amount of time to take? Because the vast majority of the reconnaissance helicopter fleet were still OH-6Ds, I feel like JGSDF was not in a hurry to fix the problem.

I wish the Ninja utility looked more like the LHX utility though. It just looks like various stretched Jet Rangers. Sad!.

Eh do you know what the Kawasaki utility helicopter derived from OH-1 would have looked like?

[Triplebaconation]

Pretty much like every other light utility helicopter in the world.

[Gallia-]

It's a Huey that got fucked by a Eurocopter I guess.

Yawn.



Now this is a wagon.

Extremely low poly count ensures it can deploy rapidly and be stored in graphic VRAM for long periods of time without undue detrimental load on global GPU buffer.

[The Corparation]

Japan has helicopters? Istasha that stuff up.

JSDF is way ahead of you:

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

You are assuming it is alternative.

"Bakire sharif" is gibberish.

Not it isn't.
The turkish for maiden is Bakire.
Sharif is the Arabic (either noun or abjective) for noble.

[Cossack Peoples]

About how long can a good AIP DE sub stay submerged before having to surface and run its diesel engines?

[The Manticoran Empire]

About how long can a good AIP DE sub stay submerged before having to surface and run its diesel engines?

Several days. Exact details for modern submarines are generally classified.

[Cossack Peoples]

About how long can a good AIP DE sub stay submerged before having to surface and run its diesel engines?

Several days. Exact details for modern submarines are generally classified.

So, would 30-36 hours be a good number?

Nevermind, damn you, readily available estimate for Gotland-Class

[Dayganistan]

Ooh looks like I underestimated how sophisticated Tiger is, didn't realise it had quite a lot of signature reduction too. That and weapons aside what expensive capabilities did the Tiger have, really?

Anyway, the early 70s Cobra alike is single engine (whereas IRL that was 1967) and the 'Tiger alike' is meant to be similar in weight class (i.e. 6k MTOW). I do quite like the OH-1 so assuming there isn't anything particularly sophisticated on it the late 80s helicopter could be a bigger OH-1. Its most advanced weapon is probably something like Vikhr (which is adequate for anything short of a tank and can double as a helicopter killer).

Oh and isn't the mast a better place to mount optics than the top of the cockpit since it allows more of the helicopter to remain behind cover while observing?

Edit: In retrospect I might pass on the Comanche and settle for incorporating some of its more cost-effective features in the latest armed reconnaissance helicopter - exhausts buried in the fuselage and internal weapon bays, maybe?

I'm a little late on the armed reconnaissance helicopter discussion but may I suggest something along the lines of the HAL Rudra for that role? Indian defence industry does get memed on because they've made a lot of bad things (INSAS and Arjun MBT come to mind) but I don't see anything inherently wrong with the Rudra or the Dhruv which it's based on.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

What are the legal consequences for a government to put "wanted dead or alive" posters up for crimes on the high seas?
(with the caveat that the suspect can't be killed if they actually surrender)

[Kassaran]

I think the major issue for modern recon helicopters doesn't come down to weapons, but sensors. So long as you can pack a significant amount of relevant sensors that aren't simply going to be added traffic for your SIGINT folks to sort through, you should get a bit of mileage from them. Significant investment in high-resolution infrared spectrum optics and regular-spectrum optics (Night and Day Sights respectively), as well as the imaging and stabilization systems to make best use of them, can be tied into other potential systems which in and of themselves represent the bulk of the investment into the helicopter.

What I find inherently questionable about the Rudra and Dhruv's design is that when compared to purpose-built observation/recon helicopters, they're large and designed to carry passengers. I believe that the Rudra and Dhruv in that line of thinking are far more equitable in role of armed utility helicopters. Most rotorcraft in the light reconnaissance role tend to be significantly lighter to boot. The Dhruv and Rudra are of the 4,500-5,000kg weight class, while most recon helicopters rarely scratch 3,000kg at max takeoff weight. Examples of this lie in the Kiowa (2,495 kg), Eurocopter AS350 (2,250 kg), Eurocopter EC120 (1,715 kg), and the MD 600 (1,860 kg).

The Rudra and Dhruv are perhaps good, but not as recon helicopters.

[Hinachi]

I think you're right that it is the sensors that make a reconnaissance helicopter, but dedicated reconnaissance helicopter airframes are actually uncommon. Most countries use light utility helicopters or attack helicopters (which already possess the same sensors that reconnaissance helicopters need). The HAL Rudra seems more like a light attack helicopter using an utility helicopter airframe, given that the Indians want to put up to 8 ATGMs on it.

Either way its distribution of fuel versus payload is the wrong way around for Hinachi - for about 1k higher MTOW than an OH-1, it has barely more fuel and a substantial payload of 8 ATGMs that would be considered excessive.

[Gallia-]

I imagine OH-1 could carry eight ATGW and four AAMs pretty easily TBF.

[Hinachi]

It probably can, the Type 91 AAMs it carries IRL weigh 66 kg for each launcher containing 2 missiles, and 8 ATGMs would weigh maybe 400 kg for a total of 532 kg or so, comfortably within the 600-700 kg payload it is estimated to have. Its just that I'd prefer to have a gun and achieve the range that OH-1 achieves with 2 external fuel tanks on internal fuel too.

Edit: There's also an undercurrent of planners wanting to limit the armament of the armed reconnaissance helicopter so that it doesn't get pressed into an attack helicopter role by field commanders, but of course fuel/range can be traded for weapons, so the limitations probably come in the form of deliberately small wings (the 5k MTOW attack helicopter development of OH-1 with the same OH-1 wings?).

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

I mean the Lynx HAS.3 did just fine without a cannon and with just missiles?

[Gallia-]

It probably can, the Type 91 AAMs it carries IRL weigh 66 kg for each launcher containing 2 missiles, and 8 ATGMs would weigh maybe 400 kg for a total of 532 kg or so, comfortably within the 600-700 kg payload it is estimated to have. Its just that I'd prefer to have a gun and achieve the range that OH-1 achieves with 2 external fuel tanks on internal fuel too.

Edit: There's also an undercurrent of planners wanting to limit the armament of the armed reconnaissance helicopter so that it doesn't get pressed into an attack helicopter role by field commanders, but of course fuel/range can be traded for weapons, so the limitations probably come in the form of deliberately small wings (the 5k MTOW attack helicopter development of OH-1 with the same OH-1 wings?).

It would need to be bigger than OH-1 I guess?

Or have bigger wings for the EFTs.

[Hrstrovokia]

MiG-21bis any good as a drone hunter?

[Gallia-]

No one knows. Maybe?

RAH-66 is probably more competitive since most drones are slow and low altitude. Or any of the goofy anti-helicopter airplanes like SABA.

[New Vihenia]

MiG-21bis any good as a drone hunter?

too smol nose.

Drones need something bit bigger, maybe something have at least 60 cm in diameter.

[Gallia-]

I'd think that the EL 2032 is adequate for killing RQ-7 Shadows and such.

Maybe not quadcopters though. Longbow might be able to do that.

[Puzikas]

Best drone hunter is very well trained birds

[Gallia-]

ok france

[Fenwick Foundation]

Does anyone have a pdf on how to drive a submarine? I mean like an owner's manual.

[North Rosmana]

Any idea for a mobile, cost effective medium range artillery?, I was thinking Bm-21, but I am open to suggestions.

Thanks in advance.