NationStates

Gallia- wrote:Buying F-35 or S-400 is quite literally a "political issue". That's the whole point.

South Korea got KM-SAM because Russia owned them oodles of money from the Cold War. They got two battalions worth of T-80/BMP-3 that they use for aggressor training in 1995 and 2005. They got an IRBM made for them (Hyunmoo-2), and some helicopters (Ka-32s), and could have potentially got an attack helicopter (I think it was a development of Ka-50) too. The USA has very few problems, if any, with selling F-35 to ROKAF because it produces its own equipment and it's not very likely to run off and sell it to the Russians in exchange for industrial assistance. The South Koreans would be helping the Russians with their industry, like they did in the Cold War, and like what got the Russians so indebted to the USSR/Russia in the first place. Now Russia is trying to act like ROK is India and squeeze them for more contracts but the line of debit seems to be running dry.

OTOH Turkey is probably more likely to sell a single F-35 to Russia, and then take F-35 apart and make their own F-35 with hookers and blow.

Langenia wrote:

New Vihenia wrote:The problem between S-400 and F-35 is mainly political in nature than technical. Same problem happened here in my country, where Su-35 would supposedly live happily together with AMRAAM's and upgraded F-16's which US doesnt like to see.

It's really just because it's Turkey I imagine.

USA has no problems selling F-35 to ROKAF who operate plenty of Russian systems since they were able to get a lot of work for Russian firms in exchange for debt relief in the late 1990's. KM-SAM, the entire BMP-3/T-80U OPFOR battalion (and some replacement parts in 2005), and a few other things are the result. Really makes you think how much the Russians owe Korea.

So you're telling me, that if I went "Forget what the US thinks," somehow managed to get both systems and theoretically avoided the political issues, I could have both systems?

Gallia- wrote:That's incredibly trivial yes.

Again, South Korea has no troubles operating Russian and American equipment in the same airspace lol. For that matter, neither does Poland, Romania, or Czechia, if we want to talk about MiG-29 and MiG-21.

Gallia- wrote:SAMs are so typically useless they could not fire a single missile and no one would notice.

Rosmana wrote:Just curious here, but why would my country, The Netherlands, need a jet like the F-35, when we do not even have MBT,s?

Not judging, I just can not follow the logic.....

Romextly wrote:

Rosmana wrote:Just curious here, but why would my country, The Netherlands, need a jet like the F-35, when we do not even have MBT,s?

Not judging, I just can not follow the logic.....

Well right now there really isnt a use for mbts in western europe

Rosmana wrote:

Romextly wrote:Well right now there really isnt a use for mbts in western europe

Really, with all those the Russians have?, what are going to stop them with?

Romextly wrote:

Rosmana wrote:Really, with all those the Russians have?, what are going to stop them with?

Well an attempt by the russians is unlikely and mostly only large nations and eastern European coubtries really need it

Rosmana wrote:

Romextly wrote:Well an attempt by the russians is unlikely and mostly only large nations and eastern European coubtries really need it

Then why does the Netherlands, an insignificant speck, have equipment like the F-35, which is WAY more expensive?

Romextly wrote:

Rosmana wrote:Then why does the Netherlands, an insignificant speck, have equipment like the F-35, which is WAY more expensive?

Its more useful in modern warfare

Rosmana wrote:

Romextly wrote:Its more useful in modern warfare

Yes, for larger nations, why does the Netherlands need them?

The Manticoran Empire wrote:

Rosmana wrote:Yes, for larger nations, why does the Netherlands need them?

The Netherlands apparently believes that F-35 is worth the cost.

Rosmana wrote:

The Manticoran Empire wrote:The Netherlands apparently believes that F-35 is worth the cost.

It was hardly a choice though, if they said no it would have cost them even more, we have Dutch word for that.

Wurgcontract, meaning they where forced.

The Manticoran Empire wrote:

Rosmana wrote:It was hardly a choice though, if they said no it would have cost them even more, we have Dutch word for that.

Wurgcontract, meaning they where forced.

I'm not Dutch, rather I'm an American. As such, I'm not very familiar with the strategic questions asked by the Dutch government. However, what I can say is that the F-35 offers a substantially wider array of capabilities. It's low radar signature increases survivability, which is important considering NATOs apparent shift towards great power competion again. It is also an aircraft being employed by several NATO countries, which likely improves the logistical question, making it more appealing. Furthermore, it is by most accounts a very good aircraft to fly, as well as one with considerable tactical flexibility. When one adds that to the fact that the other fighters the Netherlands operates are over 30 years old, it makes sense that the Netherlands would seek a modern replacement aircraft.

Rosmana wrote:Sure, but it's not just about the Dutch government, they were clearly forced into it, like during the Lockheed scandal, when they bribed prince Bernhard, but I doubt you have heard about that, since, well, we are rather small and unimportant, and there are plenty of other planes, like the Grippen.

An why would the Netherlands need such an advanced jet, when other, bigger countries, with better economies, have refused?

Dayganistan wrote:

Rosmana wrote:Sure, but it's not just about the Dutch government, they were clearly forced into it, like during the Lockheed scandal, when they bribed prince Bernhard, but I doubt you have heard about that, since, well, we are rather small and unimportant, and there are plenty of other planes, like the Grippen.

An why would the Netherlands need such an advanced jet, when other, bigger countries, with better economies, have refused?

The whole point of NATO, at least in theory, is so its members can contribute to common defense. The Netherlands obviously feels it can contribute to that mission better with the F-35. As do other smaller NATO members like Belgium and Norway.

The F-35 is also probably going to become the next F-16, which was also exported to a huge number of NATO countries when it was still new cutting edge tech in the 80s.

Rosmana wrote:
And you make it sound like it was a choice by the Netherlands, and really, I doubt that very much.

Dayganistan wrote:

Rosmana wrote:
And you make it sound like it was a choice by the Netherlands, and really, I doubt that very much.

Nobody went to the Netherlands and said "buy F-35 or get out of NATO." My country, Canada, is also looking to purchase new fighters and the US isn't hovering over us forcing us to buy the F-35, or even an American made aircraft in general.

Triplebaconation wrote:Lockheed has a more sophisticated method than bribing these days. By sourcing parts from Dutch industry it ensures there's always internal political pressure to procure F-35s.