NS Military Worldbuilding Thread No. 12

[Danternoust]

I might just antagonize the entirety of the globe by just having "an ineffectual space program" when in reality all launches were successful in distributing debris and its doubtful many will see it coming

Wait, Kim Jong Un is playing multidimensional chess?

I still would think it would be simpler to have a satellite that was able to play revolutionary tunes using a nuclear thermocouple and a flash drive for eternity...

instead of space debris that everyone tracks as spinning out of control

[Hrstrovokia]

Is there any point attaching Kornet ATGM launchers onto the turret of a T-72 variant tank?

Is there any reason not to use Refleks ?

Why not both?

The Kornet-M/EM versions outrange Refleks and have better penetration values. Kornet also comes in a thermobaric version.

[Gallia-]

It's also a tube on the side of a tank.

[New Vihenia]

Why not both?

The Kornet-M/EM versions outrange Refleks and have better penetration values. Kornet also comes in a thermobaric version.

But the optics on T-72's may not necessarily support it or do you intend to put new one. and The T-72's General Purpose HE can serve same as Thermobaric version.

[The Akasha Colony]

Is there any reason not to use Refleks ?

Why not both?

The Kornet-M/EM versions outrange Refleks and have better penetration values. Kornet also comes in a thermobaric version.

The T-72 already has this thing called a "gun" that does everything you need it to do.

A lack of range is not a particular shortcoming that T-72 or MBTs in general suffer from. Nor is a lack of penetration, since HEAT tends not to be the weapon of choice for defeating heavily armored targets if APFSDS is available.

[Danternoust]

So smart bullets exist. How about fireable homing beacons. This simplifies aiming for targets slightly, one could fire a homing dart of some kind, scoot, and wait for smart artillery shells to blanket the target.

[Purpelia]

So smart bullets exist. How about fireable homing beacons. This simplifies aiming for targets slightly, one could fire a homing dart of some kind, scoot, and wait for smart artillery shells to blanket the target.

Just use a laser designator and a normal smart shell.

[New Vihenia]

I guess my Ramjet powered guided shell can have anti radiation mission.

Give it compatibility to all 152mm Howitzer and every battery can have SEAD capability.

[Purpelia]

But can it fit in the same warhead as a nuke?

[Gallia-]

needs company boilers for turning dry legume and oats/rice into food tho

[Cossack Peoples]

If an enemy aircraft employs energy-based countermeasures via laser (maybe phrased that wrong; they use laser to bazap projectile), would it generally be effective to equip fighters with dazzlers to render the countermeasure (presumably arranged in a small turret or pod of some sort) moot before engaging?

[Austrasien]

If an enemy aircraft employs energy-based countermeasures via laser (maybe phrased that wrong; they use laser to bazap projectile), would it generally be effective to equip fighters with dazzlers to render the countermeasure (presumably arranged in a small turret or pod of some sort) moot before engaging?

I might be misunderstanding but, pointing a laser at a laser isn't a useful thing to do.

[Cossack Peoples]

If an enemy aircraft employs energy-based countermeasures via laser (maybe phrased that wrong; they use laser to bazap projectile), would it generally be effective to equip fighters with dazzlers to render the countermeasure (presumably arranged in a small turret or pod of some sort) moot before engaging?

I might be misunderstanding but, pointing a laser at a laser isn't a useful thing to do.

Yeah, there's not too much information on how the laser countermeasure works, but apparently it can stop thrown grenades (but not underbarrel grenade launchers, despite the obvious) to tank shells and missiles. I was thinking along the lines of a laser being able to point at the machinery to disable it (mixing up infrared dazzlers/DIRCM and the scrambling of IR seekers), but now I'm starting to edge away from that for obvious reasons and assume that jamming an aircraft will also prevent a hypothetical MMW radar from tracking incoming missiles.

[Austrasien]

Yeah, there's not too much information on how the laser countermeasure works, but apparently it can stop thrown grenades (but not underbarrel grenade launchers, despite the obvious) to tank shells and missiles. I was thinking along the lines of a laser being able to point at the machinery to disable it (mixing up infrared dazzlers/DIRCM and the scrambling of IR seekers), but now I'm starting to edge away from that for obvious reasons and assume that jamming an aircraft will also prevent a hypothetical MMW radar from tracking incoming missiles.

You are probably reading a very mangled description of something. Laser countermeasures are effective against non-imaging IR seekers and optical SACLOS or MCLOS missiles. Pointing a laser at a laser weapon simply won't do anything, it's not logical.

Non-imaging IR seekers are susceptible to jamming because they are modulated in space and time, they find targets by observing portions of their field-of-view in a predetermined pattern so that the time a target is detected corresponds to a particular angle. There are many ways of doing this but they all amount to the same thing; and likewise, all IR jammers are variations on the same. Illuminate the missile with a particular strobe pattern so that it registers targets as existing at times and so angles they do not.

Optical command line of sight missiles see something on the back of the missile, a beacon usually but sometimes the engine or just the missile itself, and track that within the field of view. Jammers either create a dummy beacon and attempt to confuse the controller or dazzle the tracker so it cannot track the missile.

But these are both very specific to the functions of the guidance systems they are attacking. There is no general-purpose optical jammer. It is very nearly impossible to perform any kind of angle deception on an imaging seeker because it resolves light sources in its field of view in angle. This is what it means to image something. A light source coming from a particular angle cannot appear to come from any other angle except under very specific conditions, certain telescopes may have stray reflections for example or optical imperfections in lenses and mirrors may cause them to focus light in unintended ways, but this does not generalize and would generally occur only at very specific angles even when it is relevant.

It simply is not possible to put a light source on a plane (or anything else) and somehow contrive a way to point it at a camera and make it seem its light is coming from anywhere except the plane its physically attached to, without removing it from the vehicle its protecting and physically separating it. This means the best that can be hoped for in the way of jamming is to prevent an optical sensor like a laser rangefinder from measuring the range (by washing out the reflected light) or preventing things in the close (angular as seen from the camera being dazzled, not physical) vicinity from being tracked separately from the dazzler. Which is relevant to SACLOS type missiles but not much else.

[Cossack Peoples]

Sorry about the vagueness-- I was referring to radar jamming, thus removing the countermeasure's turret to track incoming projectiles (assuming said countermeasure I know very little about uses something along the lines of MMW radar, though it is just as likely to use infrared tracking.)

[The Akasha Colony]

Sorry about the vagueness-- I was referring to radar jamming, thus removing the countermeasure's turret to track incoming projectiles (assuming said countermeasure I know very little about uses something along the lines of MMW radar, though it is just as likely to use infrared tracking.)

Now I'm really not sure what exactly you're trying to describe.

[New Vihenia]

Whaddya guys think about recoilles gun with guided Guided hypervelocity munition ?

So it's a recoilles gun, with some guided Kinetic payload, with a laser receiver on its butt. One possible advantage is during launch, most of the "plume" would have been dispersed already at breech, of course it would means that this thing cannot be fired on enclosed room. But it offers simple Laser beamrider guidance improved laser propagation environment as the plume which would block the laser may not or only have little presence within the weapon's field of view.

It is of course a specific tank killing weapon but think it worth considering.

[Radictistan]

Isn't a hypervelocity recoilless gun completely impossible because physics?

[Gallia-]

It's the opposite lol.

[New Vihenia]

Isn't a hypervelocity recoilless gun completely impossible because physics?

err which Newton's law exactly ? As the burned propellant gas is vented and balances out the momentum from the projectile. It will cancel out

[Gallia-]

I guess he thinks the recoilless breech is "taking" velocity from the projectile instead of tapping gas at different times during the projectile's movement.

Since a normal recoilless rifle taps immediately after the ignition of the projectile, and they aren't particularly high pressure to begin with (since they're supposed to be physically lightweight), which I guess gives you that impression if you don't know how it works and just assume it's something innate to the mechanism rather than a quirk of a few competing design requirements. There's no reason you can't make a delayed blowback recoilless cannon though. It would be heavier than a normal recoilless rifle because it has to delay the opening of the breech by hydraulic springs, or a massive bolt, but that's it. Certainly not something a person could carry but fine for an armored vehicle.

As far as the projectile is concerned as long as you open up the breech at a point where it won't be caught by the decreasing gas pressure in the tube, it'll be pushed upon by the same amount of gas pressure it started with.

Cue Manokan somehow confusing Kepler's Laws with Newton's to "explain" that because Mars has a retrograde orbit that the projectile will slow down anyway or something I guess.

[Radictistan]

So the low velocity of recoilless guns is by choice?

[Gallia-]

No, but a bazooka doesn't need to be high velocity. I'm not really sure if it could be, although people have made hypervelocity bazookas before they always seem to lose to slower ones, except for that one. No one probably notices if a 3-4" diameter explosive shell lands at 600 meters in 2 seconds of 0.5 seconds. And all the hypervelocity weapons have acceleration phases of like 300-500 meters anyway.

The low velocity of a Carl Gustaf or something is mostly because it's a short range weapon intended for a rifle squad or a platoon to plink at a house sized target with. You can make it longer but at that point you'll end up shooting it like a jingal or something, because to give a projectile sufficient rotation and velocity you'd want a longer barrel. Grg48 and friends are already quite long and heavy for a person to carry. You'd start needing to put it on a tripod and M40 isn't exactly slow: it's a supersonic projectile and about 2/3rd's the velocity of the 90mm HEAT projectile used by the M47/M48 tanks. Besides that there's also overpressure concerns, and going supersonic out of a barrel is pretty gnarly for anyone standing next to the bore or breech. You might burst your eardrums or something.

This is a quirk of the recoilless rifle opening the breech immediately after cartridge ignition. Which was done to make the lightest possible cannon to be carried by people.

Lengthening the barrel is the ordinary method of squeezing more velocity out of a recoilless gun because any other option requires an extremely massive bolt or a gas delayed breech opening or both. Neither are conductive to be carried by Sven and Ole. Maybe Tore can heft it but he's an actual 7 foot troll who is like 450 lbs of lean muscles and is all bone from neck up.

Also I literally linked you a recoilless gun that shoots 35mm Oerlikon shells at full velocity. It would work with 105mm if you wanted to make a gun big enough I guess, since it was supposed to go on Stryker but the US Army decided to reuse XM35 instead of make a new gun.

[Radictistan]

I asked a question. There's no reason to be like that.

[Gallia-]

lolok