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NS MilReal Consultation Thread No. 12

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Sibauk
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 11
Founded: Mar 25, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Sibauk » Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:34 am

Would AShM TELs based on islands just 1700 and 600 km2 in size be too easy to find to be worth having? For comparison these islands would have roughly 20% and 10% of the coastline of Taiwan (which has AShMs on TELs) respectively.

Attack by nuclear weapons is not a consideration BTW.

Edit: Perhaps Singapore, a 700 km2 island nation that only fields ship and air-launched Harpoons is a better comparison.
Last edited by Sibauk on Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Champagne Socialist Sharifistan
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Founded: Dec 08, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Champagne Socialist Sharifistan » Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:09 am

Champagne Socialist Sharifistan wrote:Could you design an Army uniform including a cloak (with trackpants covering the legs and body armour underneath)?
Would it be effective as uniform for medics and logistics soldiers?

Could you?
A nation which partly represents my views.
Founder of the Traditionalist Military Alliance:https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=493756
The Turkish War of Independence and everything before along with 2014 modernisation are set in stone.
Everything else is subject to change

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Puzikas
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10911
Founded: Nov 24, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Puzikas » Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:29 am

Could you not repeat your question every other post?

What makes you think a cloak isn't part of historical uniforms?
What makes you think that a uniform is meaningfully better or worse for a medic or a logistical troop than it would be for a line infantryman?
What makes you think that track pants are coveralls?
What makes you think ANY of these things you ask?

Sibauk wrote:Would AShM TELs based on islands just 1700 and 600 km2 in size be too easy to find to be worth having? For comparison these islands would have roughly 20% and 10% of the coastline of Taiwan (which has AShMs on TELs) respectively.

Attack by nuclear weapons is not a consideration BTW.

Edit: Perhaps Singapore, a 700 km2 island nation that only fields ship and air-launched Harpoons is a better comparison.


Nah you can hide TELs for AShMs pretty easily it's just a matter of how developed an island of that size is and if you can construct competent earthworks and camouflage for them
Last edited by Puzikas on Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Romextly
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Founded: Nov 10, 2018
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Romextly » Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:31 am

Quick question. Is the T-34 a better tank than the M4 Sherman?

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The Manticoran Empire
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Founded: Aug 21, 2015
Anarchy

Postby The Manticoran Empire » Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:09 am

Romextly wrote:Quick question. Is the T-34 a better tank than the M4 Sherman?

Depends on the metric. For the Soviet Union, it was. T-34s were cheaper and easier to manufacture than the Sherman. However, for the US, the T-34 would be absolutely the most useless pile of junk in the history of armored warfare. The T-34 worked for the Russians because they built it with planned obsolesence in mind and had rail lines to the factories. The US had to ship everything overseas. As such, while the Russians were alright in reducing the lifespan of a vehicle to reduce its cost and complexity, the US could not make that sacrifice. Anything that would be sent overseas HAD to be able to fight anywhere in the world for prolonged periods of time with the only maintenance facilities being a tent with a mud floor.
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The Manticoran Empire
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Anarchy

Postby The Manticoran Empire » Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:10 am

Champagne Socialist Sharifistan wrote:
Champagne Socialist Sharifistan wrote:Could you design an Army uniform including a cloak (with trackpants covering the legs and body armour underneath)?
Would it be effective as uniform for medics and logistics soldiers?

Could you?

You could but why would you? Medics and logistics guys still have to be in the field running the risk of being blown up. It is cheaper to issue everyone the same uniform.
For: Israel, Palestine, Kurdistan, American Nationalism, American citizens of Guam, American Samoa, Puerto Rico, Northern Mariana Islands, and US Virgin Islands receiving a congressional vote and being allowed to vote for president, military, veterans before refugees, guns, pro choice, LGBT marriage, plural marriage, US Constitution, World Peace, Global Unity.

Against: Communism, Socialism, Fascism, Liberalism, Theocracy, Corporatocracy.


By the Blood of our Fathers, By the Blood of our Sons, we fight, we die, we sacrifice for the Good of the Empire.

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Romextly
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Romextly » Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:11 am

The Manticoran Empire wrote:
Romextly wrote:Quick question. Is the T-34 a better tank than the M4 Sherman?

Depends on the metric. For the Soviet Union, it was. T-34s were cheaper and easier to manufacture than the Sherman. However, for the US, the T-34 would be absolutely the most useless pile of junk in the history of armored warfare. The T-34 worked for the Russians because they built it with planned obsolesence in mind and had rail lines to the factories. The US had to ship everything overseas. As such, while the Russians were alright in reducing the lifespan of a vehicle to reduce its cost and complexity, the US could not make that sacrifice. Anything that would be sent overseas HAD to be able to fight anywhere in the world for prolonged periods of time with the only maintenance facilities being a tent with a mud floor.

But in a fight tank v. tank, with all other variables considered, which would win?


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Romextly
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Romextly » Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:18 am

Korva wrote:Whoever shoots first.

So it's fair game?

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Champagne Socialist Sharifistan
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Founded: Dec 08, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Champagne Socialist Sharifistan » Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:20 am

The Manticoran Empire wrote:
Champagne Socialist Sharifistan wrote:Could you?

You could but why would you? Medics and logistics guys still have to be in the field running the risk of being blown up. It is cheaper to issue everyone the same uniform.

Thanks. You would for cultural reasons. TG me if you want more info.
A nation which partly represents my views.
Founder of the Traditionalist Military Alliance:https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=493756
The Turkish War of Independence and everything before along with 2014 modernisation are set in stone.
Everything else is subject to change

Black Lives Matter!

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The Manticoran Empire
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Founded: Aug 21, 2015
Anarchy

Postby The Manticoran Empire » Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:27 am

Romextly wrote:
The Manticoran Empire wrote:Depends on the metric. For the Soviet Union, it was. T-34s were cheaper and easier to manufacture than the Sherman. However, for the US, the T-34 would be absolutely the most useless pile of junk in the history of armored warfare. The T-34 worked for the Russians because they built it with planned obsolesence in mind and had rail lines to the factories. The US had to ship everything overseas. As such, while the Russians were alright in reducing the lifespan of a vehicle to reduce its cost and complexity, the US could not make that sacrifice. Anything that would be sent overseas HAD to be able to fight anywhere in the world for prolonged periods of time with the only maintenance facilities being a tent with a mud floor.

But in a fight tank v. tank, with all other variables considered, which would win?

According to a US Army study from World War 2, the tank that shoots first usually wins.
For: Israel, Palestine, Kurdistan, American Nationalism, American citizens of Guam, American Samoa, Puerto Rico, Northern Mariana Islands, and US Virgin Islands receiving a congressional vote and being allowed to vote for president, military, veterans before refugees, guns, pro choice, LGBT marriage, plural marriage, US Constitution, World Peace, Global Unity.

Against: Communism, Socialism, Fascism, Liberalism, Theocracy, Corporatocracy.


By the Blood of our Fathers, By the Blood of our Sons, we fight, we die, we sacrifice for the Good of the Empire.

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Dayganistan
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Posts: 1199
Founded: May 02, 2016
Father Knows Best State

Postby Dayganistan » Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:56 am

Champagne Socialist Sharifistan wrote:Thanks. You would for cultural reasons. TG me if you want more info.

Real world armed forces issue the exact same uniform to everyone regardless of any cultural reasons. The only difference might be a different camo pattern for a different branch. For field uniforms, just be normal and give everyone the same BDU. For parade uniforms, go nuts with the cultural attire.

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Triplebaconation
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Founded: Feb 22, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Triplebaconation » Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:10 pm

Ah, the traditional cultural costume of track suit and cape.

Gallia- wrote:
United Earthlings wrote:Assume arable land and water exist within the vast interior of the supercontinent.


Not very Pangea then.


Yes, "climate levels" are in part determined by the shape of the continents. The interiors of these landmasses may not necessarily be a giant desert but they will tend to be arid with extreme latitudinal and seasonal temperature differences due to a lack of moderating ocean currents.

Even today the vast majority of people live near the coast, I'm not sure how he expects this would change.
Proverbs 23:9.

Things are a bit larger than you appear to think, my friend.

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Crookfur
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Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Crookfur » Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:23 pm

2 of the Heroic Logisticians of the Sharifstani Logistics Corps reassuring the mother of one of thier brave new recruits:

Image
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Your ordinary everyday scotiodanavian freedom loving utopia!

And yes I do like big old guns, why do you ask?

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Champagne Socialist Sharifistan
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Founded: Dec 08, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Champagne Socialist Sharifistan » Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:35 pm

Crookfur wrote:2 of the Heroic Logisticians of the Sharifstani Logistics Corps reassuring the mother of one of thier brave new recruits:

(Image)

They're also issued a bayonet in case someone tries to grab their cloak
A nation which partly represents my views.
Founder of the Traditionalist Military Alliance:https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=493756
The Turkish War of Independence and everything before along with 2014 modernisation are set in stone.
Everything else is subject to change

Black Lives Matter!


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Triplebaconation
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Founded: Feb 22, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Triplebaconation » Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:36 pm

"Don't worry, ma'am, in the 80% likely event your 17.5-year-old 5' 12" son dies delivering this load of track pants his wife and mistress will receive a generous pension in addition to their salary at the cape factory. Are you chaste and devout enough to join my wives and me for dinner this evening?"
Proverbs 23:9.

Things are a bit larger than you appear to think, my friend.

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Champagne Socialist Sharifistan
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Founded: Dec 08, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Champagne Socialist Sharifistan » Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:37 pm

Korva wrote:Yes, but which one is the atheist living in a theocracy whose parents are 3rd cousins of different faiths?

Will he make a good soldier?

I know it's a joke but realistically the atheist would join a Marxist faction.
A nation which partly represents my views.
Founder of the Traditionalist Military Alliance:https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=493756
The Turkish War of Independence and everything before along with 2014 modernisation are set in stone.
Everything else is subject to change

Black Lives Matter!

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Champagne Socialist Sharifistan
Senator
 
Posts: 4471
Founded: Dec 08, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Champagne Socialist Sharifistan » Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:39 pm

Triplebaconation wrote:"Don't worry, ma'am, in the 80% likely event your 17.5-year-old 5' 12" son dies delivering this load of track pants his wife and mistress will receive a generous pension in addition to their salary at the cape factory. Are you chaste and devout enough to join my wives and me for dinner this evening?"

LOL.
A nation which partly represents my views.
Founder of the Traditionalist Military Alliance:https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=493756
The Turkish War of Independence and everything before along with 2014 modernisation are set in stone.
Everything else is subject to change

Black Lives Matter!

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Immoren
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 64047
Founded: Mar 20, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Immoren » Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:30 pm

Why do some militaries use cardinal numbers for units instead of ordinal numbers.
Like 2 parachute regiment instead of 2nd parachute regiment?
Is it because it ordinal numbering implies seniority between those units?
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Triplebaconation
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Founded: Feb 22, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Triplebaconation » Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:04 pm

No, the British put much more emphasis on seniority even though they use ordinal numbers. It's just a language thing.
Proverbs 23:9.

Things are a bit larger than you appear to think, my friend.

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United Earthlings
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Posts: 2003
Founded: Aug 17, 2004
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby United Earthlings » Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:56 pm

Romextly wrote:Quick question. Is the T-34 a better tank than the M4 Sherman?


When you have to build 1.7 T-34s to equal 1 Sherman and your own soldiers think the lend-lease Sherman tanks their getting are better overall, that should tell you something. So, yes the T-34 is indeed the better tank, but only because I'm bias and I like the look of the T-34 better. :D

Triplebaconation wrote:Even today the vast majority of people live near the coast, I'm not sure how he expects this would change.


Someone forgot to do their research, because last I checked, less than 40% didn't make a majority, but then what do I know, I only live in this alternate reality. :roll:
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Husseinarti
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Husseinarti » Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:17 pm

Romextly wrote:Quick question. Is the T-34 a better tank than the M4 Sherman?


Depends.

Both the T-34 and M4 Sherman on paper were very much so "good" tanks. They did their job and did them well.

The USSR had sent some early T-34 models to the US not to long after war were declared in 1941, and the US had good things to say about gunnery optics and a few other things, while also being aggravated at a few others.

"Quality" and "Quantity" are two things you balance in mass-production, when you find yourself fighting a war of survival against a nation that seeks to unironically wipe your race off the face of the Earth, and has launched the largest ground offensive in the world to do it. You end up focusing on quantity over quality. As well, the Soviet industrial system suffered from a lack of "unified" production standards across the various tank factories, which themselves had to be moved sometimes thousands of miles further into the USSR as to avoid their capture by the Nazis. Not just the factory, but the entire infrastructure that was supposed to support it was moved deep into the USSR.

This, combined with the issues of a "unified" production standard and rapid need for vehicles after the loss of what, 60% of its pre-war tank inventory is little over a month or so, meant the USSR really didn't always have time to focus in the niceties of manufacturing its tanks. It did have however a similar system of mass-production the US had, as they had contracted US industrial developers to assist them in such endeavors pre-war. In short, they produced allot of "bad" to "passable" tanks, fighting the largest land war in history. Comparing a T-34 built in 1942 vs an M4 Sherman in 1942 isn't wrong, but it needs context. On paper its much more even between the two.

The M4 Sherman was a tank designed to go thousands of miles to fight somewhere. Much like the Japanese, the USA knew its wars wouldn't be fought on its soil and needed to come up with a tank that could be supported thousands of miles away with minimal hassle. The M4 throughout the war maintained a very high standard of production as you know. The US factories didn't have to move thousands of miles, the factories had decades of manufacturing experience already, and they weren't being bombed or risked blown up.

United Earthlings wrote:
Romextly wrote:Quick question. Is the T-34 a better tank than the M4 Sherman?


When you have to build 1.7 T-34s to equal 1 Sherman and your own soldiers think the lend-lease Sherman tanks their getting are better overall, that should tell you something. So, yes the T-34 is indeed the better tank, but only because I'm bias and I like the look of the T-34 better. :D


no
The Manticoran Empire wrote:
Romextly wrote:Quick question. Is the T-34 a better tank than the M4 Sherman?

Depends on the metric. For the Soviet Union, it was. T-34s were cheaper and easier to manufacture than the Sherman. However, for the US, the T-34 would be absolutely the most useless pile of junk in the history of armored warfare. The T-34 worked for the Russians because they built it with planned obsolesence in mind and had rail lines to the factories. The US had to ship everything overseas. As such, while the Russians were alright in reducing the lifespan of a vehicle to reduce its cost and complexity, the US could not make that sacrifice. Anything that would be sent overseas HAD to be able to fight anywhere in the world for prolonged periods of time with the only maintenance facilities being a tent with a mud floor.

The T-34 that fought WW2 wasn't supposed to fight WW2. So you're halfway right
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Triplebaconation
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Founded: Feb 22, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Triplebaconation » Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:44 pm

United Earthlings wrote:but then what do I know


Apparently not that "near" is a relative term. Indeed, if I were to choose some arbitrary distance for near such as two inches, only a small minority of people would live near the ocean!

It's well-established that population density falls off sharply in relation to distance (more precisely distance and elevation due to the influence of navigable rivers) from the ocean. While nobody knows the current exact percentage given the rapid population growth of coastal megacities, a majority of the population almost certainly lives within 200 kilometers of the ocean. You may not consider this "near," but again this a relative term so a semantic argument would be fruitless.

A 66% supermajority is estimated to live within 400 kilometers of the coast.

The relationship between economic activity and distance from the coast is even more pronounced.

What this means for your supercontinents is perhaps best illustrated visually.

Image

The dark purple strip is approximately 200 kilometers at the Equator, while the light purple is 400 kilometers. The majority of the population will live in temperate areas in these strips. The rest will be largely trackless waste, as are the interiors of most continents with the exception of Europe even today.

To answer your question, land warfare probably wouldn't be any different. Why would it? Was land warfare historically more advanced in the Great Plains than in Italy?

Naval warfare would probably be more important than in the real world, particularly in the area around the Tethys Sea and the large rift in Gondwanaland.
Last edited by Triplebaconation on Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:51 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Proverbs 23:9.

Things are a bit larger than you appear to think, my friend.

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Gallia-
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23152
Founded: Oct 09, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gallia- » Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:03 pm

United Earthlings wrote:
Romextly wrote:Quick question. Is the T-34 a better tank than the M4 Sherman?


When you have to build 1.7 T-34s to equal 1 Sherman and your own soldiers think the lend-lease Sherman tanks their getting are better overall, that should tell you something. So, yes the T-34 is indeed the better tank, but only because I'm bias and I like the look of the T-34 better. :D

Triplebaconation wrote:Even today the vast majority of people live near the coast, I'm not sure how he expects this would change.


Someone forgot to do their research, because last I checked, less than 40% didn't make a majority, but then what do I know, I only live in this alternate reality. :roll:


ughhhh

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