NS Military Worldbuilding Thread No. 12

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

MBT-80 requires a different everything than UK tbf.

You mean one who can both find its balls and its wallet at the same time? <.<

[Gallia-]

I'm not sure STAMPLAR or the super Perkins engine were doable in the late 1970's or early 80's when it was being considered for production. It would have probably appeared in the 1990's but it would have cost as much as Challenger 1 and Challenger 2 put together, plus a bit extra maybe, and you'd still be using Chieftains in 1988. If you kept pumping money into it you would have spent 10 years making a tank, it would have been quite alright for its time, like the CR2, assuming everything works. And if they did all that it would be a good tank for the late 80's or early '90's but it was a bit ambitious and they knew it was ambitious so they went with a much safer option.

CR1 was a stopgap before a "real" Special Armor tank, which was CR2. MBT-80 would have been trying to make a late 80's MBT in the late '70's, which is what America did with MBT-70 and failed.

If the UK was wanting to make a MBT-80 it would probably have Super Stillbrew Chieftains or something though. Or Mist has suggested slapping CR1 turrets on a Chieftain but I like the idea of Sovietized Dorchester where it's a Chiffly with a saucer turret and Burlington/Dorchester panels on a brick.

Or Romor-A (Remora) ERA for that real Soviet style:



For Galla's "Greater Yorkshire"/Yngland:

'20's to '50's: Gallan export tanks until Centurion.
'60's: Merkava is built to replace Centurion; forward engine handles hollow charge.
'70's: Chieftain/Shir 1 built to handle 120mm gun (replaces the Gallan 4"/101mm with an indigenous design rifled gun) and imported LRS/digital FCS.
mid-'90's: Challenger 2 rejected as too heavy for then-standard railways. Challenger PIP built instead to take advantage of the Perkins CV12 1,200 engine, while a 1,500 HP transmission is trialed. Late 80's to early 90's. Has TOGS. Periodically upgraded with new armor.
late '10's to early '20's: Infrastructure investments mean bigger tanks. MBT-80 2 is built with a larger hull than the PIP, automatic loader, Perkins CV16 uprated to 1,800 HP, with a indigenous transmission (either imported for early batches but built proper indigenous in latter ones, or all indig), proper armor ("CR3" eqv) and a smoothbore 140mm gun. Has STAMPLAR, a CITV, a chain loader-rammer, and three crewmen. It's basically an M1 with a big boi gun like M1 Thumper but generally just chonkier and faster.
mid '40's: Robotic tank is developed roughly the size of Challenger PIP, with the 140mm gun, and a much smaller engine. Maximum combat weight of 55 tons (as opposed to the 65-70 tons of the MBT-80 2).

These all have names starting with "C".

Centurion (duh).
Chariot (duh).
Charlemagne (Chieftain).
Cockchafer (Challenger PIP).
Cataphract (MBT-80 2).
Compulsor (OMFV CR-PIP).

By 2049 units the Yeomanry have Chariots and Charlemagnes, Cockchafers are pushed into heavy cavalry units and some infantry battalions of the regulars. Charlemagnes are also used by infantry battalions in rear areas. Cataphracts are used by the Ynglisc Army of the Foss (YAF) with 140mm guns on the Frisian border, and some upgraded Cockchafers, while 120mm Cockchafers and Charlemagnes are used by Hunnic border troops of the Ynglisc Army of the Skell (YAS). All Charlemagnes have Remora ERA packages or Cockburn Special Armor applique available for wartime use, while Chariots have Special Armor in new turrets. Cockchafers have the Amberjack or Remora ERA. Compulsor has Trevally ERA and Cockburn Special Armor.

Names of ERA by generation, which are named for gamefish:

Remora - Heavy, for battle tanks. Basically identical to ROMOR-A. Periodically improved with different materials.
Amberjack - Light ERA. Similar to ERAWA-2, mostly stops cannon rounds, but requires a substantial amount of back armor to catch residual.
Trevally - Light ERA, similar to CERAWA. Has similar performance against SC/cannons but requires less armor. It's substantially bulkier.

Names of Special Armor by generation, which are named for towns that the development staff at the FVRDE Wetwood find have amusing names:

Climping Special Armor - 1st generation similar to Burlington. From the '80's. Indigenous. Not used anymore.
Diddling Special Armor - 2nd generation similar to M1A1(HA). From the '90's. Developed with help from Gallia. Used on Cockchafer and Charlemagne's base armor packages in the Yeomanry.
Giggleswick Special Armor - 3rd generation similar to M1A2SEP. From the '10's. Indigenous but derived from Diddling. Used on Cataphract's base armor packages and some Cockchafers have been upgraded with it.
Cockburn Special Armor - 4th generation Special Armor from the early '30's. Available as applique for most YAF Cataphract and some YAS Charlemagnes. Used in the Compulsor. A handful of Cataphracts have been upgraded with it in modified "long" turrets.
Piddle - Not really a generation, it's used in side plates and belly plates where volume efficiency is important, and mostly stops EFPs. All tanks have Piddle, although anything before Cataphract have it as an addon plate on the belly to stop EFP mines.

[Somerania]

The Rapier won't be able to stop everything

In 2021 Rapier will be able to stop exactly jack shit. It's even inferior to a MANPADS these days.

Upgraded chieftain is called challenger and finally properly fixed chieftain of the 90s is challenger 2.

Where is MBT-80?

True
Stuff as fast as mach 4 and beyond are being made by global powers
Rapier is old

[New Vihenia]

Time to swim.

[Gallia-]

tfw mpc got even bigger o:

[Shanghai industrial complex]

Time to swim.


(Image)

looks great!Is this a reference to the design of vn-1?

[Shanghai industrial complex]

Upgraded chieftain is called challenger and finally properly fixed chieftain of the 90s is challenger 2.

Where is MBT-80?

It died too early

[Shanghai industrial complex]

Does homosexuality help or harm troop performance? Is it completely unrelated?

Oh!The great Sacred Band of Thebes!

[Gallia-]

Ostmark the mainlanders are triple posting.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Ostmark the mainlanders are triple posting.

You know I wish I could do something.

[Kassaran]

Then we must man the guns and post back at quadruple the speed! Quick, everyone begin explaining how you intend to quarter troops in times of global crisis if, say, an extinction-level event was nigh.

I've actually done a bit of thinking about how the military would actually function if society were to begin breaking down across the world in the event of a zombie pandemic. The first situation, an actual pandemic-lite situation in which the viral agent became widespread. Most people assume that bases would begin taking in all civilians as a means of establishing refuges and safe-spaces, but I would counter by saying that military bases would probably shelter in place and follow a three-stage isolation plan based upon the level of interactions the public have with them.

This first stage would involve actual withdrawal of all military forces on training exercises, and otherwise not deployed overseas, to within the confines of the base perimeter. A public announcement across easily accessible news television and radio channels would issue the general quarantine alert and only members of the national guard would be mobilized to liaison with the public at ready. A designated entry-point on one side of the base would be established, with National Guard checkpoints along the approach route to ensure security and crowd-control, while a designated exit-point on the opposite side would additionally be established. The exit would likely have a basic guard rotation that would ensure it could be held against potential incursion attempts by rioters/looters/refugees while the entry point would become more heavily fortified. Local infantry forces would begin periodic inspections of the perimeter fencing and all green-spaces to ensure no incursions, while Military Police would step-up actual patrols of major roadways and all inspections of buildings and guard/duty shifts. Those found on-base without proper authorization would most likely be detained, inspected for contraband, and then evicted via the designated exit-control-point (ECP).

This second stage would be the most conflictive and likely demoralizing to local forces. Military bases are not supposed to be refuges, they're defensible locations built with the idea of sheltering military personnel, equipment, and sites within them. This means, should mass public unrest begin to result in increased attempts (successful or otherwise) at incursion, the base would follow the standard ROE for escalation-of-force. From what I know, EOF requires a four-step process:
1. Shout
2. Show
3. Shove
4. Shoot

The first two steps have already been accomplished, by the establishing of public announcements stating that the base is going into lockdown SHOUT has been accomplished. The checkpoints and increased security posture taken up by the garrisoned forces would then SHOW. Those found to be violating, or attempting to violate the perimeter of the base becoming subject to the SHOVE step. But when things escalate, the ECP's have no doubt been issued the standing orders to utilize force to ensure the safety of the base. SHOOT is finally fallen back upon if shows of physical force and the displayed use of power in evicting unauthorized persons from the base is not heeded. The base commander would likely only authorize such measures be unilaterally taken if rate-of-incursion exceeds a manageable amount (say, if MP's are arresting more-and-more trespassers, and fence patrols are finding more incursion sites and attempted trespassers). Once SHOOT is authorized, it will not be revoked as it is a last-ditch effort to hold the base.

SHOOT, which is a call that can only be made by the base commander, has a no-holds-barred approach to a situation, and would indicate desperation and lack of government authority through use of law. Thus only execution of force can establish that authority. Commanders have NO jurisdiction outside of their bases, but have a responsibility to hold and protect everything and everyone within to the best of their ability. At the end of the day, only the chain of command can intercede, but the National Guard likely represents the only weak-point in the whole structure.

No doubt, Stage 3 is indicative of what happens should a base hold out long enough to turn the tide of looters, rioters, and any other threats presented by the crisis which initiated the threat. It requires the reacquisition of lost military hardware, personnel, and locations. Not every base would likely hold, but each base would still represent a potential link and holding point for military forces intending to maintain their hold in a region. Bases that have consolidated power long enough and have received authorization to begin expanding their power by use of the appropriate chain of command or contingencies (say, one month without contact from a higher echelon), would do so by first engaging in reconnaissance efforts to establish communications with other nearby bases. Upon successful interaction with another base, the chain-of-command is reestablished as seen fit and will continue to expand as need be. In the event of unsuccessful interactions or rogue hardware, personnel, or sites operating outside the chain-of-command or established contingencies, then we enter the Conquer stage, where a military operation to reclaim the errant property is planned and executed.

Up until this point, all military operations that have been engaged have been limited to one-to-three day's foot march from the base-of-operations. This is done to limit expenditure of Liquids and Ammunitions, while reducing Casualties, and loss of Equipment. But when engaging rogue elements or equipment, the commander would need to utilize large amounts of fuel and munitions. This would also likely be the only times we see use of non-communications-based electronic equipment and power-generators. This would fuel military vehicles such as helicopters and trucks for cargo-lift/personnel transport respectively. This would see perhaps some of the most devastating shows of force in the post-apocalyptic world of whatever/whenever/wherever this is happening, but I believe it'd be effective in maintaining some sense of government after most of it falls apart.

[Gallia-]

Actual extinction event: Don't do anything because we're all about to die.
A big flu: Quarantine people in nearby hotels for a week after moving posts, and make them wear masks like it's hay fever season, or whatever.
A cough: Lmao just go outside it's not out in the field.

[Cossack Peoples]

So I was reading about the AN/MPQ-64 Sentinel radar, and it states that the system is anti-radiation missile resistant-- how is that possible, considering if the radar outputs radar waves, the passive systems of an ARM would track it? Does that mean it just is able to turn itself off quick?

[Gallia-]

It has a lower sidelobe than its predecessor because it's a phased array rather than a parabolic antenna.

Sidelobes are probably weak enough that very old ARMs wouldn't really be able to sustain a lock at the same distances as the FAAR.

[Manokan Republic]

I've come to the conclusion that a supersonic twin-engine cargo vertical lift-off aircraft would be easier than I originally thought. For the F-35, the fan size is actually quite small given that it can only be a few square meters, as the aircraft itself needs to remain quite small, however, in a large aircraft, the fanblades could be 2 or even 3 times bigger, and so, greater lift for vertical lift-off could be achieved. It was only this small so regular variants of the aircraft without it wouldn't need to be ultra wide, when based on the same chassis. But, it's not like it couldn't be more efficient if this fan blade size was far larger. I mean you don't have to go crazy, but, twice as wide, which means 4 times the surface area would be easily doable.

[Feyrisshire]

What's the advantages of having a volunteer army in contrast to a conscript army?

[The Manticoran Empire]

What's the advantages of having a volunteer army in contrast to a conscript army?

Volunteers tend to be more willing to fight and have higher morale. A conscript basically doesn't have choice so he or she really doesn't care. They just want to do their time and get out. Plus, conscripts usually have much shorter service lengths than volunteers, only about two years, compared to a volunteer who is likely to serve for five or more.

[Austrasien]

What's the advantages of having a volunteer army in contrast to a conscript army?

Less drag on the economy. Conscripts have to perform a lot of nearly free work and most of what most conscripts do is of extremely low value. What they could be doing is often but not always more valuable.

Guarding disconnected telephones vs. Stocking Shelves. The latter at least serve some purpose.

[Austrasien]

Volunteers tend to be more willing to fight and have higher morale. A conscript basically doesn't have choice so he or she really doesn't care.

This is the opposite of true. Conscription, militarism and expansionism all correlate very strongly.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

Volunteers tend to be more willing to fight and have higher morale. A conscript basically doesn't have choice so he or she really doesn't care.

This is the opposite of true. Conscription, militarism and expansionism all correlate very strongly.

He means all else being equal.

[Gallia-]

What's the advantages of having a volunteer army in contrast to a conscript army?

Volunteers tend to be more willing to fight and have higher morale.

Lol.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

Volunteers tend to be more willing to fight and have higher morale.

Lol.

With respect, you’re picking one example and not controlling for other factors. My friend, what are you studying at university? Evidently not a science subject, social or physical.

[Dayganistan]

To be honest almost all armed forces have low morale regardless if they're conscripts or volunteers. Conscripts are forced to be there doing dumb, semi pointless things. Volunteers initially want to be there but want to GTFO once they're in and forced to do the same dumb semi pointless things conscripts would be forced to do.

[Austrasien]

He means all else being equal.

I know. It is a common enough belief. It dovetails with modern western cultural biases. It isn't clear how it can be reconciled with actual military history though.

[Spirit of Hope]

Lol.

With respect, you’re picking one example and not controlling for other factors. My friend, what are you studying at university? Evidently not a science subject, social or physical.

There is basically no evidence to support the idea that conscription causes soldiers to be less motivated than a volunteer force. It is a common saying, but just because people say it doesn't make it true.

Note that WW1 and WW2 were fought by conscription on all sides. It is hard to argue any of the sides suffered moral problems because they were using conscription.

What's the advantages of having a volunteer army in contrast to a conscript army?

The main advantages are political and economic. Conscription generally saves money on low end soldiers, since they are forced to be there you don't have to pay them competitively to the open job market. However you also have to have the political will to enforce conscription, which can be hard in the face of unpopular wars or engagements. The nation's that still maintain conscription generally have the political will because they face existential threats, see South Korea and Israel.

Further consideration is that while conscription will fill out lower ranks there can be a struggle to get quality personnel to stick around and become NCOs. But that is a struggle a volunteer force can face as well.

A final consideration is how many people are being conscripted and how you are choosing them, all adults when they hit a certain age, only men, only a percentage of, etc.