NS Military Worldbuilding Thread No. 12

[The Corparation]

TBF, all of those dumb exotic basing methods were invented simply to make the Racetrack look good in comparison, rather than any practical security or engineering concerns.

Yeah the report this is from is explicitly designed to explain why they went with racetrack for MX. It's peppered with proposals that are clearly BS and seem like they were thrown in as filler. I think the only one that had seen any serious work done at the time besides race track was burying the missiles in deep underground tunnels (which got at least as far as the USAF playing with a tunnel boring machine). Off road trucks and Midgetman are both mentioned but they're listed separately from each other, so I think the report predates Midgetman becoming a serious project fielded in such a manner.

[Gallia-]

Reverse slope granite basing made sense if you could find a big enough plateau to hide behind.

At least until the Soviets figure out the MaRV then it's lame.

[Cossack Peoples]

Is everything alright with this write-up for a diesel-electric sub? Any typos, missing details, or major flaws? I feel like I might've phrased or understood the propulsion system incorrectly. Also have no clue how a torp tube-launched cruise missile gets out of the water.

[New Vihenia]

Is everything alright with this write-up for a diesel-electric sub? Any typos, missing details, or major flaws? I feel like I might've phrased or understood the propulsion system incorrectly. Also have no clue how a torp tube-launched cruise missile gets out of the water.

I'm curious where the titanium part goes.

Submarine building, for hull it is made out of same material, be it double or single hull to prevent material related cathodic corrosion. Considering your sub is single hulled, there likely no real place for titanium to go with. Your pressure hull would made up the biggest chunk of material in the sub. Titanium can perhaps go for top "casing" material to provide structure or hydrodynamic shape to cover externally mounted stuff like your AIP's liquid oxygen tank if it's outside or mountings for side sonar. But still you would run into corrossion problem where the titanium meet the steel hull. So a thinner steel is used. These top casing are usually FF (Free Flooding) Volume where it is not contribute to buoyancy, so it may not have to withstand diving pressure.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

What age are young people too young to do undercover intelligence gathering?
(I don't mean being an analyst or officer or whatever I just mean literally spying or going undercover)

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

What age are young people too young to do undercover intelligence gathering?
(I don't mean being an analyst or officer or whatever I just mean literally spying or going undercover)

I think at 16 they would probably be old enough for operational requirements to be met. The risk against them would be high but in Sharifistan the age of majority is 16,
What do you guys think about this?

[Cossack Peoples]

Well, how many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll Tootsie Pop?

[Gallia-]

Lewd.

[Immoren]

What age are young people too young to do undercover intelligence gathering?
(I don't mean being an analyst or officer or whatever I just mean literally spying or going undercover)

If they are old enough to attend comprehensive school they're old enough for intelligence gathering.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

What age are young people too young to do undercover intelligence gathering?
(I don't mean being an analyst or officer or whatever I just mean literally spying or going undercover)

If they are old enough to attend comprehensive school they're old enough for intelligence gathering.

Thanks.

[United Earthlings]

I am having some difficulty figuring out how specialised conscripts (i.e. specialised into corps—infantry, cavalry, artillery &c.) then are funnelled to a sort of generalist militia for home and civil defence. You'd have militia troops comprised of men from the infantry, the engineers, the cavalry, the artillery &c. This is good I think, since it would result in a varied skill set which is important for local defence. It just seems a bit confusing if they'd just lose all of their regimental/corps distinctions upon “continuing” into the militia.

Thought of a simple, but elegant solution to the highlighted part of your statement. Just drop the distinctions down a level or two. So regimental/corps distinctions for the regular army and dedicated battalion/company distinctions noted for said prior service in the militia.

Until Brezhnev got jealous of the new US Ohio-class with the claimed capabilities of the new Trident missiles and demanded a solid-fuel missile boat, which became Project 941 (Typhoon). This design shows how far behind the Soviets were in solid-fuel technology: despite being absolutely gigantic (more than twice the mass of Trident I), the R-39 missiles were barely better, and in turn required an absolutely gigantic submarine that still carried fewer missiles than the Ohios. And R-39 was far inferior to Trident II. The Soviets were well aware of these shortcomings though and continued producing Delta-class submarines carrying their normal liquid-fuel missiles at the same time as they were building the Typhoons.

Interesting little side note, the Soviet's did develop a solid-fuel SLBM in the form of the R-31 missile. The Soviets just never could make that leap like the Americans did in mastering solid-fuel technology that was cost-effective and capable. This explains why the R-39 is such a massive and inferior missile to boot, when you have to borrow the first stage design from a land based missile to make your sea based design work, that's never a good thing. So, a winning check definitely goes to the democratic capitalist system there.

So if we have a large capital ship without any air cover or protection from a sub, that ship is a sitting duck for target practice, right?

Even with air cover and protection, a large vessel can still be a sitting duck for target practice to where not even the safety of a port harbor is safe.

Best just to accept your probably going to lose the large capital ship at some point and had the wisdom to build a spare.

Well, how many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll Tootsie Pop?

Thanks for the weird nostalgic childhood memories, I guess. Sometimes I forget I've remember a bunch of useless crap over my lifetime that just sits there.

[Arkandros]

Is everything alright with this write-up for a diesel-electric sub? Any typos, missing details, or major flaws? I feel like I might've phrased or understood the propulsion system incorrectly. Also have no clue how a torp tube-launched cruise missile gets out of the water.

Since it seems like you largely drew from the Type 212/214, I'll only comment on the differences I consider unusual or unreasonable.
Propulsion:
Your engines are significantly smaller for some reason, trading in the 214's 2x1900kw diesels and 1000kw of APU for 2x1000kw engines. This should be rectified, or your speed should be significantly reduced to account for this. Additionally, your shaft horsepower (which you describe as ship horsepower) should be at the very least double, if not higher, to attain your claimed speeds. It would also be better and clearer to describe the "noise dampening materials surrounding the diesels" as a floating or vibration dampening mount. Also, while I don't disagree with your use of a pumpjet, you will have to have higher RPM to achieve the same thrust as an equivalent mass shrouded propeller, which presents its own noise concerns.
Hull:
Already covered by New Vihenia. You will see an increase in draft due to your increase in beam and mass, and still see magnetic returns as long as your hull is metal, so you may want to mention degaussing.
Electronics:
Could use further fleshing out, but I will not comment further.
Armament:
The choice to shift to 2 different size tubes is, IMO, an extremely poor decision. I recommend picking one or the other, with removable liners if you absolutely insist on using two sizes of weapons. Additionally, your 670mm torpedo is implied to be pure wake homing, which is a terrible design, especially when you have already discussed that your 533mm torpedo is capable of wire guidance and active sonar. 30 is also a lot of torpedoes, especially for what you're describing as a territorial defense sub.

[The Akasha Colony]

Is everything alright with this write-up for a diesel-electric sub? Any typos, missing details, or major flaws? I feel like I might've phrased or understood the propulsion system incorrectly. Also have no clue how a torp tube-launched cruise missile gets out of the water.

Pump jets have not been favored for diesel-electric boats because they are less efficient at lower speeds and add weight to the design, which is a drawback for diesel-electric boats which are optimized for maximum propulsive efficiency at low speeds. This doesn't mean that they're impossible to implement, but most modern boats like Type 212/214, Sōryū, Lada, S-80+ etc. have retained conventional propellers though the new Australian Attack-class are planned to use pump-jets. This may be because the design is ultimately just a diesel version of the nuclear Barracuda-class.

I also second Arkandros' comments about the armament. Diesel boats tend to have very limited space and splitting armament types between two torpedo calibers is not advisable. 30 weapons is a lot given that other boats in this size class carry around 18 weapons and even much larger nuclear submarines like Los Angeles and Virginia carry fewer than 30 weapons for their torpedo tubes.

I think some of the wording in places is a little awkward though the point is probably understood. For instance, "diesel engines with an air-independent propulsion system, supplemented with hydrogen fuel cells" sounds a little odd to me because as far as I am aware, the fuel cells are the AIP system, not a supplementary piece of equipment. I also assume that the diesels do not "directly" drive the propeller shaft, because diesel-electric boats connect their diesels to electric generators and this electricity is then used to power the shaft, recharge the batteries, run hotel loads, or whatever else the ship needs. The diesels are not directly connected to the shaft.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

Would 16 year old males generally be too weak for artillery roles?

[Gallia-]

lmao two 16 year olds just to lift one xm1299 supercharge

[Husseinarti]

Would 16 year old males generally be too weak for artillery roles?

yeh nah

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

What's a suitable military age for active service (in a cultural that values physical exercise for the youth and where youth obesity rates are low)?

in Sharifistan it's 16 for gunners, HUMINT soldiers, KP people, and female logistics drivers (on the logic that the female personnel would drive safely), 17 for infantry soldiers, male logistics drivers and female tank drivers (same logic) and 18 for Sergeants, male tank drivers and special forces soldiers. Officers need degrees (followed by one year training) unless commissioned from the ranks so the youngest officers are in their early twenties. Those commissioned from the ranks will soon be more common. These people will be in their late twenties to early thirties on average.

[The Manticoran Empire]

What's a suitable military age for active service (in a cultural that values physical exercise for the youth and where youth obesity rates are low)?

in Sharifistan it's 16 for gunners, HUMINT soldiers, KP people, and female logistics drivers (on the logic that the female personnel would drive safely), 17 for infantry soldiers, male logistics drivers and female tank drivers (same logic) and 18 for Sergeants, male tank drivers and special forces soldiers. Officers need degrees (followed by one year training) unless commissioned from the ranks so the youngest officers are in their early twenties. Those commissioned from the ranks will soon be more common. These people will be in their late twenties to early thirties on average.

20 to 21 seems to be the modern norm. 16 year olds are effectively still children so they often make decisions without considering the consequences.

[Gallia-]

Signing an enlistment contract is one of those decisions though.

[Cossack Peoples]

But sixteen-year-olds fit in them coffins so good though

Pack em two at a time

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

What's a suitable military age for active service (in a cultural that values physical exercise for the youth and where youth obesity rates are low)?

in Sharifistan it's 16 for gunners, HUMINT soldiers, KP people, and female logistics drivers (on the logic that the female personnel would drive safely), 17 for infantry soldiers, male logistics drivers and female tank drivers (same logic) and 18 for Sergeants, male tank drivers and special forces soldiers. Officers need degrees (followed by one year training) unless commissioned from the ranks so the youngest officers are in their early twenties. Those commissioned from the ranks will soon be more common. These people will be in their late twenties to early thirties on average.

20 to 21 seems to be the modern norm. 16 year olds are effectively still children so they often make decisions without considering the consequences.

In which countries is it 20 to 21?

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

Signing an enlistment contract is one of those decisions though.

But in a culture where most people believe in heaven doesn't that suggest that thinking about the long-term consequences is actually good? "If you live you get glory and go to heaven when you're old, if you die it's scary but you still get to heaven?"

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

What's a suitable military age for active service (in a cultural that values physical exercise for the youth and where youth obesity rates are low)?

in Sharifistan it's 16 for gunners, HUMINT soldiers, KP people, and female logistics drivers (on the logic that the female personnel would drive safely), 17 for infantry soldiers, male logistics drivers and female tank drivers (same logic) and 18 for Sergeants, male tank drivers and special forces soldiers. Officers need degrees (followed by one year training) unless commissioned from the ranks so the youngest officers are in their early twenties. Those commissioned from the ranks will soon be more common. These people will be in their late twenties to early thirties on average.

20 to 21 seems to be the modern norm. 16 year olds are effectively still children so they often make decisions without considering the consequences.

Googled a list of minimum military ages. It's only twenty in Morocco, Gabon and one other place. It's not 21 anywhere in the world.

[Arkandros]

Is everything alright with this write-up for a diesel-electric sub? Any typos, missing details, or major flaws? I feel like I might've phrased or understood the propulsion system incorrectly. Also have no clue how a torp tube-launched cruise missile gets out of the water.

Pump jets have not been favored for diesel-electric boats because they are less efficient at lower speeds and add weight to the design, which is a drawback for diesel-electric boats which are optimized for maximum propulsive efficiency at low speeds. This doesn't mean that they're impossible to implement, but most modern boats like Type 212/214, Sōryū, Lada, S-80+ etc. have retained conventional propellers though the new Australian Attack-class are planned to use pump-jets. This may be because the design is ultimately just a diesel version of the nuclear Barracuda-class.

I also second Arkandros' comments about the armament. Diesel boats tend to have very limited space and splitting armament types between two torpedo calibers is not advisable. 30 weapons is a lot given that other boats in this size class carry around 18 weapons and even much larger nuclear submarines like Los Angeles and Virginia carry fewer than 30 weapons for their torpedo tubes.

I think some of the wording in places is a little awkward though the point is probably understood. For instance, "diesel engines with an air-independent propulsion system, supplemented with hydrogen fuel cells" sounds a little odd to me because as far as I am aware, the fuel cells are the AIP system, not a supplementary piece of equipment. I also assume that the diesels do not "directly" drive the propeller shaft, because diesel-electric boats connect their diesels to electric generators and this electricity is then used to power the shaft, recharge the batteries, run hotel loads, or whatever else the ship needs. The diesels are not directly connected to the shaft.

AIP, at least for the purpose of the 212/214s, is separate from the fuel cells. It is functionally additional air flasks that allow running the diesel while submerged and without the snorkel, to recharge the fuel cells or provide a short distance sprint while submerged.

[Triplebaconation]

Also "low efficiency at low speeds" doesn't really seem to be an inherent quality of pumpjets (in fact it seems implausible to me). Even if it's true it doesn't make automatically make them a bad choice depending on the submarine and its operating environment. Probably see more on future large diesels intended for the Pacific.