Your Nation's Air Force [MKI]

[Crookfur]

Thank you for the help, I'll probably go with the IRIS-T since the Meteor is just to new.

IRIS-T isn't a replacement for Meteor though. IRIS-T is a SRAAM, while Meteor is a BVRAAM. So you still need some kind of BVRAAM, of which the only other modern one on the list is the AIM-120. That's what's so odd about the list; it has no fewer than three SRAAMs (AIM-9, IRIS-T, and MICA), two modern BVRAAMs (AIM-120 and Meteor), and one outdated MRAAM (Skyflash).

technically thats 3 BVRAAMs if we include the BVR perfromance of MICA RF.



On the MiG-29 none of the upgrades really solve the short lifespan issues which are only compounded by the rather major porduction issues and outright fraud MiG have been involved with. Its about the only high end jet that i'm aware of where a big ticket customer has gone to the trouble of flat out rejecting all of thier new aircraft.

The MiG-29 is nice enough but despite all the new stuff they keep cramming into it it still has its notable limitations.

[French Guyane]

Reposting. The French Guyane Air-Force currently utilises the Rafale and Mirage 2000 as fighter aircraft.

[Souriya Al-Assad]

Our most important fighters as well as their numbers:

Sukhoi PAK FA - 20x
MiG-29SMT - 80x
Chengdu J-20 - 20x
Shenyang J-31/F-60 - 20x
Qaher-313 (assuming that by 2021 in-game it should be finalised for serial production) - 5x
Yakolev Yak-130 - 35x
Sukhoi Su-35 - 25x
MiG-35 - 25x
Soko J-22 'Orao' - 25x
Sukhoi Su-34 - 25x
Sukhoi Su-30 - 25x
Sukhoi Su-22M5 - 25x
Aero L-39 - 25x
Sukhoi Su-25s (of the Su-25KM, Su-25SM, Su-25TM (Su-39), Su-25T, Su-25BM variants) - 50x
The rest of our aerial power numbers is in our armed forces information sheet

Under construction in underground Deir ez-Zor factories (previously classified project of building a new force that was commenced back in 2015, to be rolled out in Decembre 2021; currently its the end of September/early November approximately 2021 in the in-game conflict role play):

MiG-31E interceptors - 30x
Su-47/S-37s - 30x
Yugoslav Novi Avion Project - 20x
Qaher-313SY (Syrian edition of Qaher-313) - 25x
Sukhoi Su-33 - 35x
MiG-29K - 40x

On-Going (Under-Development) Project from the Bear being watched by Mukhabarat officials interested in procuring it for Souriya once released: Sukhoi Su-60

Specialised Note: Our naval based fighters shall be mounted upon the three Type 089 Liaoning class as well as three Ulyanovsk class carriers, which are under slow construction in Tartous (commenced back in 2015, intended to be completed for 2022).

[The Akasha Colony]

Our most important fighters as well as their numbers:

Sukhoi PAK FA - 20x
MiG-29SMT - 80x
Chengdu J-20 - 20x
Shenyang J-31/F-60 - 20x
Qaher-313 (assuming that by 2021 in-game it should be finalised for serial production) - 5x
Yakolev Yak-130 - 35x
Sukhoi Su-35 - 25x
MiG-35 - 25x
Soko J-22 'Orao' - 25x
Sukhoi Su-34 - 25x
Sukhoi Su-30 - 25x
Sukhoi Su-22M5 - 25x
Aero L-39 - 25x
Sukhoi Su-25s (of the Su-25KM, Su-25SM, Su-25TM (Su-39), Su-25T, Su-25BM variants) - 50x
The rest of our aerial power numbers is in our armed forces information sheet

Under construction in underground Deir ez-Zor factories (previously classified project of building a new force that was commenced back in 2015, to be rolled out in Decembre 2021; currently its the end of September/early November approximately 2021 in the in-game conflict role play):

MiG-31E interceptors - 30x
Su-47/S-37s - 30x
Yugoslav Novi Avion Project - 20x
Qaher-313SY (Syrian edition of Qaher-313) - 25x
Sukhoi Su-33 - 35x
MiG-29K - 40x

On-Going (Under-Development) Project from the Bear being watched by Mukhabarat officials interested in procuring it for Souriya once released: Sukhoi Su-60

Specialised Note: Our naval based fighters shall be mounted upon the three Type 089 Liaoning class as well as three Ulyanovsk class carriers, which are under slow construction in Tartous (commenced back in 2015, intended to be completed for 2022).

Any reason there are so many different types?

[Souriya Al-Assad]

Our most important fighters as well as their numbers:

Sukhoi PAK FA - 20x
MiG-29SMT - 80x
Chengdu J-20 - 20x
Shenyang J-31/F-60 - 20x
Qaher-313 (assuming that by 2021 in-game it should be finalised for serial production) - 5x
Yakolev Yak-130 - 35x
Sukhoi Su-35 - 25x
MiG-35 - 25x
Soko J-22 'Orao' - 25x
Sukhoi Su-34 - 25x
Sukhoi Su-30 - 25x
Sukhoi Su-22M5 - 25x
Aero L-39 - 25x
Sukhoi Su-25s (of the Su-25KM, Su-25SM, Su-25TM (Su-39), Su-25T, Su-25BM variants) - 50x
The rest of our aerial power numbers is in our armed forces information sheet

Under construction in underground Deir ez-Zor factories (previously classified project of building a new force that was commenced back in 2015, to be rolled out in Decembre 2021; currently its the end of September/early November approximately 2021 in the in-game conflict role play):

MiG-31E interceptors - 30x
Su-47/S-37s - 30x
Yugoslav Novi Avion Project - 20x
Qaher-313SY (Syrian edition of Qaher-313) - 25x
Sukhoi Su-33 - 35x
MiG-29K - 40x

On-Going (Under-Development) Project from the Bear being watched by Mukhabarat officials interested in procuring it for Souriya once released: Sukhoi Su-60

Specialised Note: Our naval based fighters shall be mounted upon the three Type 089 Liaoning class as well as three Ulyanovsk class carriers, which are under slow construction in Tartous (commenced back in 2015, intended to be completed for 2022).

Any reason there are so many different types?

The air force command was divided as to what sort of main fighter would they maintain the most of, thus they ordered a variety to test their effectiveness in the conflict before deciding which one they would officially adopt as the principle fighter model.

[San-Silvacian]

Our most important fighters as well as their numbers:

Sukhoi PAK FA - 20x
MiG-29SMT - 80x
Chengdu J-20 - 20x
Shenyang J-31/F-60 - 20x
Qaher-313 (assuming that by 2021 in-game it should be finalised for serial production) - 5x
Yakolev Yak-130 - 35x
Sukhoi Su-35 - 25x
MiG-35 - 25x
Soko J-22 'Orao' - 25x
Sukhoi Su-34 - 25x
Sukhoi Su-30 - 25x
Sukhoi Su-22M5 - 25x
Aero L-39 - 25x
Sukhoi Su-25s (of the Su-25KM, Su-25SM, Su-25TM (Su-39), Su-25T, Su-25BM variants) - 50x
The rest of our aerial power numbers is in our armed forces information sheet

Under construction in underground Deir ez-Zor factories (previously classified project of building a new force that was commenced back in 2015, to be rolled out in Decembre 2021; currently its the end of September/early November approximately 2021 in the in-game conflict role play):

MiG-31E interceptors - 30x
Su-47/S-37s - 30x
Yugoslav Novi Avion Project - 20x
Qaher-313SY (Syrian edition of Qaher-313) - 25x
Sukhoi Su-33 - 35x
MiG-29K - 40x

On-Going (Under-Development) Project from the Bear being watched by Mukhabarat officials interested in procuring it for Souriya once released: Sukhoi Su-60

Specialised Note: Our naval based fighters shall be mounted upon the three Type 089 Liaoning class as well as three Ulyanovsk class carriers, which are under slow construction in Tartous (commenced back in 2015, intended to be completed for 2022).

sell all of your iranian and chinese 'stealth' fighters and buy more PAK-FAs.

They are 1000% better than whatever the Chinese and Iranians produce.

[Souriya Al-Assad]

Our most important fighters as well as their numbers:

Sukhoi PAK FA - 20x
MiG-29SMT - 80x
Chengdu J-20 - 20x
Shenyang J-31/F-60 - 20x
Qaher-313 (assuming that by 2021 in-game it should be finalised for serial production) - 5x
Yakolev Yak-130 - 35x
Sukhoi Su-35 - 25x
MiG-35 - 25x
Soko J-22 'Orao' - 25x
Sukhoi Su-34 - 25x
Sukhoi Su-30 - 25x
Sukhoi Su-22M5 - 25x
Aero L-39 - 25x
Sukhoi Su-25s (of the Su-25KM, Su-25SM, Su-25TM (Su-39), Su-25T, Su-25BM variants) - 50x
The rest of our aerial power numbers is in our armed forces information sheet

Under construction in underground Deir ez-Zor factories (previously classified project of building a new force that was commenced back in 2015, to be rolled out in Decembre 2021; currently its the end of September/early November approximately 2021 in the in-game conflict role play):

MiG-31E interceptors - 30x
Su-47/S-37s - 30x
Yugoslav Novi Avion Project - 20x
Qaher-313SY (Syrian edition of Qaher-313) - 25x
Sukhoi Su-33 - 35x
MiG-29K - 40x

On-Going (Under-Development) Project from the Bear being watched by Mukhabarat officials interested in procuring it for Souriya once released: Sukhoi Su-60

Specialised Note: Our naval based fighters shall be mounted upon the three Type 089 Liaoning class as well as three Ulyanovsk class carriers, which are under slow construction in Tartous (commenced back in 2015, intended to be completed for 2022).

sell all of your iranian and chinese 'stealth' fighters and buy more PAK-FAs.

They are 1000% better than whatever the Chinese and Iranians produce.

I disagree about that.

The J-20 as well as F-60 projects in their current stage in China have proven to be far more sophisticated then they originally looked whence they initialised these projects at first.

Iran has made gigantic strides in attempting their self-sufficient defence industry. The Zolfiqar III, the Mobarez, the numerous drones they conceived, the small arms they designed (including the Shaher sniper rifle), as well as the missile designs Iran has conceived, are quite impressive. Let us not forget that the Iranians are technically reviving their former joint Iranian-Soviet stealth fighter M-ATF project, utilising the technologies of said project to materialise their on-going under development modules.

The M-ATF in turn derived from the MiG 1,44 project, which is almost similar to the PAK FA.

[The Akasha Colony]

I disagree about that.

The J-20 as well as F-60 projects in their current stage in China have proven to be far more sophisticated then they originally looked whence they initialised these projects at first.

Iran has made gigantic strides in attempting their self-sufficient defence industry. The Zolfiqar III, the Mobarez, the numerous drones they conceived, the small arms they designed (including the Shaher sniper rifle), as well as the missile designs Iran has conceived, are quite impressive. Let us not forget that the Iranians are technically reviving their former joint Iranian-Soviet stealth fighter M-ATF project, utilising the technologies of said project to materialise their on-going under development modules.

The M-ATF in turn derived from the MiG 1,44 project, which is almost similar to the PAK FA.

Qaher-313 however is almost certainly a fake, and this can be determined by even a basic inspection of the design. It's far too small to be a viable fighter, and actual cockpit photos show nothing but cheap civilian grade electronics. Even if these are just stand-ins for the actual electronics (which would not need to be hidden so long as they were powered off), the frame is tiny. While Iran is almost certainly investing in developing stealth technology, Qaher-313 isn't it. A ruse and nothing more, or at best just a scale model of the finished design, indicating just how far down the line the actual product is from flying. For comparison, the US had full-size prototypes of the F-22 flying in 1997, but the plane didn't enter service until 2005. Russia started flying the PAK FA in 2010 but doesn't expect to introduce it until 2016. I would imagine the development schedule for a nation just developing its stealth industry would be even longer unless corners are cut.

[Pacifornia]

Thanks to having taken over the air force bases in California, our nation was able to improve on the F-4 Phantom, F-14 Tomcat and F-22 Raptor (which is aging by 2028), making them suitable for combat in the 2020s. We are also thankful to the Russian government for selling some of their aircraft to us after the Second American Civil War, like the MiG-29SMT

Sorry, I don't have pics since most of them are too large and I'm pretty sleepy

[Souriya Al-Assad]

I disagree about that.

The J-20 as well as F-60 projects in their current stage in China have proven to be far more sophisticated then they originally looked whence they initialised these projects at first.

Iran has made gigantic strides in attempting their self-sufficient defence industry. The Zolfiqar III, the Mobarez, the numerous drones they conceived, the small arms they designed (including the Shaher sniper rifle), as well as the missile designs Iran has conceived, are quite impressive. Let us not forget that the Iranians are technically reviving their former joint Iranian-Soviet stealth fighter M-ATF project, utilising the technologies of said project to materialise their on-going under development modules.

The M-ATF in turn derived from the MiG 1,44 project, which is almost similar to the PAK FA.

Qaher-313 however is almost certainly a fake, and this can be determined by even a basic inspection of the design. It's far too small to be a viable fighter, and actual cockpit photos show nothing but cheap civilian grade electronics. Even if these are just stand-ins for the actual electronics (which would not need to be hidden so long as they were powered off), the frame is tiny. While Iran is almost certainly investing in developing stealth technology, Qaher-313 isn't it. A ruse and nothing more, or at best just a scale model of the finished design, indicating just how far down the line the actual product is from flying. For comparison, the US had full-size prototypes of the F-22 flying in 1997, but the plane didn't enter service until 2005. Russia started flying the PAK FA in 2010 but doesn't expect to introduce it until 2016. I would imagine the development schedule for a nation just developing its stealth industry would be even longer unless corners are cut.

In my opinion I do believe this one was a drone edition of the fighter. Similar to the Chinese Anjiang programme of building a stealthy drone fighter aircraft. Perhaps the bigger manned version will come out later in the year or by 2015, as some Iranian sources I read speculated.

[Pharthan]

In my opinion I do believe this one was a drone edition of the fighter. Similar to the Chinese Anjiang programme of building a stealthy drone fighter aircraft. Perhaps the bigger manned version will come out later in the year or by 2015, as some Iranian sources I read speculated.

No one's really ever done a drone-and-fighter combination as their original design; it isn't logical to produce two different scales of the same fighter, even if one is to be a drone and the other manned. It would require a large amount of different parts and maintenance requirements, completely negating the factor of having a similar fighter unless you're simply so incompetent that you can't design more than one shape that actually flies. The only reason to design a fighter and drone of the same shape, including the cockpit area, is because you need a cheap drone and don't really need the best possible performance out of it - you just need something that flies (or you're going up against an enemy who can't hope to match it at all - like if the US were to make a drone out of the F-35.)

Really, the best I can chalk this up to is a proof-of-concept. Proof the thing actually flies and maneuvers, garner support, et cetera. Get your politicians on board with it, put on a show and do something pretty. You don't try to pass it off as a working fighter. You tell the truth, maybe fluff up the facts a little bit, but not nearly as much as Iran has saying it can carry weapons. They were called on their bluff and starting saying "Oh, yeah, that's what we meant... just a sub-sized model..."

No, this is far more typical of your usual Iranian bullcrap. They realized that they were they laughing stock of the defense community (only to be beaten by North Korea) and had nothing more than insane ideology and old F-14s that the Americans sold them over 30 years ago (and if those are running, my hats off to whoever made the replacement parts from scratch and manged to maintain them, because that's darn near impossible.), and since they don't recognize that they are insane at times, all they view as having really is those old F-14s and perhaps a bit of courage.
They also realized that photoshop wasn't going to work, not with 12-year-olds using it, no, this time they needed something real. So they threw together a small team to make a mock-up. To their credit, it actually looks something like a fighter, it's just way too small. They dutifully removed anything around it for proper size-comparison and maybe even as far as a wind-tunnel test to see if it would actually fly.

Iran is that one kid in school who gets angry at the slightest thing and then claims he's going to beat you up with his twenty different martial arts that he learned and that he once beat up a couple of Navy SEALs, or that one kid on Nationstates who claims he is a Navy SEAL just so you'll stop laughing at him only to realize later that's just an example of the real reason you're laughing at him at all.

Iran and North Korea both are notorious for trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes and failing miserably. Hell, North Korea built a fake city to make South Korea think they were awesome. Iran Photoshopped a missile fire to cover up the fact that they suck at operating their equipment. Why do they suck so hard? Much of the Middle East is sexist as hell. Cleaning is a "woman's job," so when it comes time for an all-male military to clean their equipment, they suck at it. Liaisons who I've run into in my line of work say that Middle Eastern Navies make the dirtiest, crappiest American Naval vessel that hasn't been cleaned in weeks look like it might as well have been painted chrome and cleaned by an army of Martha Stewarts. Needless to say, for a military trying to go digital trying to keep up with everyone else, electronics need to stay clean. American Vessels in the gulf have dust/sand problems as it is, let alone anyone actually staying there continuously or on land for what it's for.
They simply suck. It's why so many Middle Eastern countries use the AK-47. Apart from being not-too-bad of a weapon and cheap-as-hell, it doesn't really need to stay all that clean by comparison... which is great when you're in the field and whatnot... or if you just suck at cleaning because you're not used to it and have a general disdain for it.

[Souriya Al-Assad]

In my opinion I do believe this one was a drone edition of the fighter. Similar to the Chinese Anjiang programme of building a stealthy drone fighter aircraft. Perhaps the bigger manned version will come out later in the year or by 2015, as some Iranian sources I read speculated.

No one's really ever done a drone-and-fighter combination as their original design; it isn't logical to produce two different scales of the same fighter, even if one is to be a drone and the other manned. It would require a large amount of different parts and maintenance requirements, completely negating the factor of having a similar fighter unless you're simply so incompetent that you can't design more than one shape that actually flies. The only reason to design a fighter and drone of the same shape, including the cockpit area, is because you need a cheap drone and don't really need the best possible performance out of it - you just need something that flies (or you're going up against an enemy who can't hope to match it at all - like if the US were to make a drone out of the F-35.)

Really, the best I can chalk this up to is a proof-of-concept. Proof the thing actually flies and maneuvers, garner support, et cetera. Get your politicians on board with it, put on a show and do something pretty. You don't try to pass it off as a working fighter. You tell the truth, maybe fluff up the facts a little bit, but not nearly as much as Iran has saying it can carry weapons. They were called on their bluff and starting saying "Oh, yeah, that's what we meant... just a sub-sized model..."

No, this is far more typical of your usual Iranian bullcrap. They realized that they were they laughing stock of the defense community (only to be beaten by North Korea) and had nothing more than insane ideology and old F-14s that the Americans sold them over 30 years ago (and if those are running, my hats off to whoever made the replacement parts from scratch and manged to maintain them, because that's darn near impossible.), and since they don't recognize that they are insane at times, all they view as having really is those old F-14s and perhaps a bit of courage.
They also realized that photoshop wasn't going to work, not with 12-year-olds using it, no, this time they needed something real. So they threw together a small team to make a mock-up. To their credit, it actually looks something like a fighter, it's just way too small. They dutifully removed anything around it for proper size-comparison and maybe even as far as a wind-tunnel test to see if it would actually fly.

Iran is that one kid in school who gets angry at the slightest thing and then claims he's going to beat you up with his twenty different martial arts that he learned and that he once beat up a couple of Navy SEALs, or that one kid on Nationstates who claims he is a Navy SEAL just so you'll stop laughing at him only to realize later that's just an example of the real reason you're laughing at him at all.

Iran and North Korea both are notorious for trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes and failing miserably. Hell, North Korea built a fake city to make South Korea think they were awesome. Iran Photoshopped a missile fire to cover up the fact that they suck at operating their equipment. Why do they suck so hard? Much of the Middle East is sexist as hell. Cleaning is a "woman's job," so when it comes time for an all-male military to clean their equipment, they suck at it. Liaisons who I've run into in my line of work say that Middle Eastern Navies make the dirtiest, crappiest American Naval vessel that hasn't been cleaned in weeks look like it might as well have been painted chrome and cleaned by an army of Martha Stewarts. Needless to say, for a military trying to go digital trying to keep up with everyone else, electronics need to stay clean. American Vessels in the gulf have dust/sand problems as it is, let alone anyone actually staying there continuously or on land for what it's for.
They simply suck. It's why so many Middle Eastern countries use the AK-47. Apart from being not-too-bad of a weapon and cheap-as-hell, it doesn't really need to stay all that clean by comparison... which is great when you're in the field and whatnot... or if you just suck at cleaning because you're not used to it and have a general disdain for it.

Not quite. Compared to North Korea, Iran during the Iraq-Iran conflict went around to get Soviet, Chinese, as well as Brazilian assistance in initialising its domestic, self sufficient defence industry.

Said nations collaborated with engineers to help Iran reverse engineer much of their equipment to commence manufacturing parts on its own. If Iranian equipment were so bleak as you stereotypically want to depict them, the Iraq-Iran war would have been a defeat for Iran, whilst a good majority of them would be dead after Saddam's anti Shi'a genocide project was completed. This is not the case. In fact, North Korea too helped Iran fight the war, so did Libya as well as Syria. In the end, Iran gave Saddam (back then a good NATO/GCC puppet similar to the Shah in loyalty as well as brutality) a bloody nose he was never going to recover from.

As for the Qaher-313, Iran made a small version for evaluating reasons. It's a prototype for the time being.

As for generalising the entire region as if they were all Khawarji/Qutbist-Wahhab yoke like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Kuwaiti regimes (our governments in the West's allies by the way), is a foolish notion. Iran is nowhere close to the flagrant madness of the Gulf petrol Kings, Syria & Lebanon are nowhere close to being such blokes, nor is Algeria ever going to be, nor was the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya before it was neo colonised two years ago.

Is Morocco? Yes, their régime is very much Khawarji in some characteristics, including the gruesom manner they carried out their ethnic cleansing attempts on the Saharui peoples. Is Ghannouchi in Tunisia a Khawarji in behaviour? His government has the tendency to lean into that zone. Is Sudan? Likely. Is Al Qaeda in general? Definitely. Is Egypt? If you are thinking about Ikhwan or the SCAF or Mubarak then yes they have some Khawarji tendencies. Is Jordan? The régime there leans very much to following the Gulf for an example, which is not a good example at all. Is Iraq? Al Qaeda, Al Badr do have Khawarji behaviour, especially seen in their barbarianism in Syria, ISIS.

Syria, Lebanon, Armenia, Iran, Nargono-Karabakh, Kurdistan, Algeria are never going to allow themselves to become Gulf or Erdogan pet projects. It's not their thing to be thus.

[San-Silvacian]

sell all of your iranian and chinese 'stealth' fighters and buy more PAK-FAs.

They are 1000% better than whatever the Chinese and Iranians produce.

I disagree about that.

The J-20 as well as F-60 projects in their current stage in China have proven to be far more sophisticated then they originally looked whence they initialised these projects at first.

Iran has made gigantic strides in attempting their self-sufficient defence industry. The Zolfiqar III, the Mobarez, the numerous drones they conceived, the small arms they designed (including the Shaher sniper rifle), as well as the missile designs Iran has conceived, are quite impressive. Let us not forget that the Iranians are technically reviving their former joint Iranian-Soviet stealth fighter M-ATF project, utilising the technologies of said project to materialise their on-going under development modules.

The M-ATF in turn derived from the MiG 1,44 project, which is almost similar to the PAK FA.

Russia has been in the stealth game since the 1980s. The US has been in the game since the 1970s.

I think China actually thinks it can market its notF-22 when the Russians easily have a better platform thats more advanced and so on.

LOL @ Iran's Zionist killing machine, thats a rly silly thing.

[Souriya Al-Assad]

I disagree about that.

The J-20 as well as F-60 projects in their current stage in China have proven to be far more sophisticated then they originally looked whence they initialised these projects at first.

Iran has made gigantic strides in attempting their self-sufficient defence industry. The Zolfiqar III, the Mobarez, the numerous drones they conceived, the small arms they designed (including the Shaher sniper rifle), as well as the missile designs Iran has conceived, are quite impressive. Let us not forget that the Iranians are technically reviving their former joint Iranian-Soviet stealth fighter M-ATF project, utilising the technologies of said project to materialise their on-going under development modules.

The M-ATF in turn derived from the MiG 1,44 project, which is almost similar to the PAK FA.

Russia has been in the stealth game since the 1980s. The US has been in the game since the 1970s.

I think China actually think it can market its notF-22 when the Russians easily have a better platform thats more advanced and so on.

LOL @ Iran's Zionist killing machine, thats a rly silly thing.

Iran punted Saddam down to the sewage pipes during the Iraq - Iran conflict. Saddam during said war was being armed by Western, Pro NATO Latin American juntas, Israel to a certain extent, Turkey, as well as the Gulf Kings whom encouraged him into the war to commence with. Iran gave this Iraqi version of Pahlavi a bloody nose in combat. Iran gained much combat experience from that war, as well as fierceness. It passed its résistance prowess on to Syria, The Lebanese Resistance, etcetera.

Iran should not be shoved aside as insignificant, whence in truth, history remembers well how this determined to survive nation, prevailed.

As for China, it has been into researching stealth since the 1990s. It's an ally to Russia, an ally to Iran too, whom very much used to work with Moscow on a stealth fighter project that was only cancelled in the 1990s whence the USSR went into prolonged hibernation. Then they have their own military engineers. Then they have their cyber warfare units. Who is to say she could not achieve an accelerated programme?

[Vitaphone Racing]

I want to know where people get their opinions on the J-20's sophisticated-ness from when the fucker has barely flown and none of it's avionics are ready yet. It's a product of an indigenous aviation industry that's never even tried build a cutting-edge fighter from the ground up before using components from one of the youngest avionics industries in the world. Doesn't paint a pretty picture.

[Grand Britannia]

Wasn't Iran armed with American planes during the Iran-Iraq war?

[Vitaphone Racing]

Wasn't Iran armed with American planes during the Iran-Iraq war?

Tomcats.

[The Corparation]

Wasn't Iran armed with American planes during the Iran-Iraq war?

Tomcats.

Also a sizeable number of F-5s. The bulk of their inventory was stuff that the US sold to the Shaw.

[Souriya Al-Assad]

Tomcats.

Also a sizeable number of F-5s. The bulk of their inventory was stuff that the US sold to the Shaw.

Yes, these planes were given before the war. During the war it was Saddam that was the client of our Western governments as well as corporations.

Iran nonetheless beated the living cesspool out of Saddam with Soviet, Chinese, DPRK, in addition to (interestingly) Brazilian assistance during the conflict. Syria as well as Libya provided ground combat support with their troops on a level too, whilst the Libyan war industry was also helping manufacturing missiles for Iran to utilise, amongst other artillery.

[Souriya Al-Assad]

I want to know where people get their opinions on the J-20's sophisticated-ness from when the fucker has barely flown and none of it's avionics are ready yet. It's a product of an indigenous aviation industry that's never even tried build a cutting-edge fighter from the ground up before using components from one of the youngest avionics industries in the world. Doesn't paint a pretty picture.

You are slightly late on that. The J-20 has flown five times thus far I believe. Whilst some photographs of its cockpit with avionics were also shown online.

[Vitaphone Racing]

I want to know where people get their opinions on the J-20's sophisticated-ness from when the fucker has barely flown and none of it's avionics are ready yet. It's a product of an indigenous aviation industry that's never even tried build a cutting-edge fighter from the ground up before using components from one of the youngest avionics industries in the world. Doesn't paint a pretty picture.

You are slightly late on that. The J-20 has flown five times thus far I believe.

Woah!

Whilst some photographs of its cockpit with avionics were also shown online.

They're fake mockups of the cockpit displaying demonstrational software. Do you really think the J-20 will be operational with avionic equipment ten years out of date?

[Elan Valleys]

Also a sizeable number of F-5s. The bulk of their inventory was stuff that the US sold to the Shaw.

Yes, these planes were given before the war. During the war it was Saddam that was the client of our Western governments as well as corporations.

Iran nonetheless beated the living cesspool out of Saddam with Soviet, Chinese, DPRK, in addition to (interestingly) Brazilian assistance during the conflict. Syria as well as Libya provided ground combat support with their troops on a level too, whilst the Libyan war industry was also helping manufacturing missiles for Iran to utilise, amongst other artillery.

Not to mention the liberal use of child soldiers as suicide squads!

[The Akasha Colony]

I want to know where people get their opinions on the J-20's sophisticated-ness from when the fucker has barely flown and none of it's avionics are ready yet. It's a product of an indigenous aviation industry that's never even tried build a cutting-edge fighter from the ground up before using components from one of the youngest avionics industries in the world. Doesn't paint a pretty picture.

You are slightly late on that. The J-20 has flown five times thus far I believe. Whilst some photographs of its cockpit with avionics were also shown online.

Five times is basically nothing, nor does it actually demonstrate anything other than the aircraft's basic ability to take off and remain airborne, which even a sub-$100,000 used Cessna can do. Predecessor airframes for the PAK FA were flying back in 2007, but it didn't even reach prototype stage until 2010. Even Russia, with decades of experience developing high performance fighters, and the Sukhoi Corporation, an experienced aircraft designer going back to the late 1930s, encountered design difficulties that took years to work out. The HAL FGFA, a design based very heavily on the PAK FA, is expected to take an additional 6-8 years to develop. This is to say nothing of the time and expense invested in American projects such as the F-22 and F-35, or the Eurofighter.

And yet here is China, claiming to have developed a stealth fighter almost at the drop of a hat, and people are somehow willing to accept that claim at face value. China's pulled off some pretty impressive feats in the past, although a number have been revealed to have also been frauds (using that Top Gun footage to 'showcase' China's military drills come to mind). Does China have the expertise to develop a stealth fighter? Perhaps. But so do the US and Russia, and it still took them well over a decade to develop such aircraft, and Russia's isn't even in service yet. It'd be one thing if China had an enormous military budget, but it doesn't, and stealth fighters aren't cheap to develop or manufacture regardless of labor costs and purchasing power parity.

In my opinion I do believe this one was a drone edition of the fighter. Similar to the Chinese Anjiang programme of building a stealthy drone fighter aircraft. Perhaps the bigger manned version will come out later in the year or by 2015, as some Iranian sources I read speculated.

The problem is that it's not a useful way to develop a fighter. It takes more to convert a small drone into a big fighter than simply 'making it bigger,' functionally it requires building an entirely new aircraft since it would require building entirely new versions of all of the avionics, the engine, the frame, the cockpit, and the body and then re-testing all of them to ensure they work. For a drone program, there's no point in making a manned aircraft when remote control is already possible as a manned aircraft would basically invalidate any test data (the final product would be so different as to require significant redesign and testing). For a fighter program, there's no point making a small-scale drone as it would not be able to actually test any of the full-scale components. Notice how in every other country's development programs, drones are tested as drones and manned fighters as manned fighters. Scale models may be built for limited wind tunnel testing and RCS analysis, but not for flight testing even in the case of very experimental prototypes like the Su-47.

[San-Silvacian]

tbh iranian is just made that it can't have Mirages.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Russia has been in the stealth game since the 1980s. The US has been in the game since the 1970s.

I think China actually think it can market its notF-22 when the Russians easily have a better platform thats more advanced and so on.

LOL @ Iran's Zionist killing machine, thats a rly silly thing.

Iran punted Saddam down to the sewage pipes during the Iraq - Iran conflict. Saddam during said war was being armed by Western, Pro NATO Latin American juntas, Israel to a certain extent, Turkey, as well as the Gulf Kings whom encouraged him into the war to commence with. Iran gave this Iraqi version of Pahlavi a bloody nose in combat. Iran gained much combat experience from that war, as well as fierceness. It passed its résistance prowess on to Syria, The Lebanese Resistance, etcetera.

Iran should not be shoved aside as insignificant, whence in truth, history remembers well how this determined to survive nation, prevailed.

Of course, the feat of defeating an armed forces that's ill-equipped, ill-trained and all commanded from Saddam himself is something the World never heard of.
Despite Iraqi commanders deferring command unto their clan-leaders and showing almost no initiative whatsoever in 90% of all situations, despite their best tanks being 30-40 year old first generation designs (no, monkey models of monkey model T-72 are not their best tanks), despite substandard training of men and NCO's, Iran-Iraq war turned into a grotesque modern parody of the Somme. It's at best pyrrhic victory.
When your foe is in almost all ways inferior to you and you still fail to achieve anything else but trench warfare then you have lost doctrinally.

On topic, Akasha and Pharthan said most of what I said. I do not know what propaganda people have been deplorably fed but Iran-Iraq war broke pretty much both contestants in dreadful battles of attrition, and was in no way the Glorious Endsieg of the Islamic Republic.