Your Nation's Air Force [MKI]

[Amerikians]

It argued that the Raptor won't be needed all that much in this century. I think that it could be needed, but I also think the F-35 will be more valuabe since it has more ground attack abilities and pretty good air-to-air combat abilities.

I'm not sure if either the F-15, F-16, F-22, or F-35 are superior to the MiG-35, T-50, or SU-47.

I would bet the F-35 would outclass the Mig in almost any combat senario, and those are some pretty costly soviet fighters, it's doubtful that any of our viable enemies would be able to get the funding for such aircraft in any numbers that could be considered a threat.
The F-35 is most certainly a good choice for a 5th gen. multirole fighter (also what my nation uses ) As it CAN be equipped for almost any possible combat situation, for a relatively cheap cost (for a stealth aircraft)

And Amreikans, in versatility, it is vastly better than the F-22. Practically, the only thing an F-22A would be able to do better than an F-35 is air-air combat.

F-35 costs double the Raptor and has half if not a quarter of the ability. It is not better it is worse; much much worse.

[Minnysota]

Did...Someone just say that F-35 is superior to the F-22? Really?

I said it could turn out to be more valuable than an F-22.

[Licana]

And Amreikans, in versatility, it is vastly better than the F-22. Practically, the only thing an F-22A would be able to do better than an F-35 is air-air combat.

Recon?

I could see that, lower observability and higher speed and all...

I was incorrect on the cost, but 33% more =/= double the cost.
Unit costs for the Raptor are approximated around 150 million while unit costs of the F-35 are around 190 million. I assume, that when you said "The F35 has half if not quarter the ability of the Raptor" That you meant in terms of performance (speed and turning capability and the like), but the F-22 is a dedicated fighter that can't do much else, while the F-35 is acceptable as a modern fighter, but can also function quite effectively in other roles. It even has STOVL and carrier born variants. The F-35 may not be a superior fighter, but it is a superior military aircraft, in my humble opinion.

[Ramsetia]

Okay, finalised Kirin with statblock! If anything that isn't wing arrangement needs fixing or seems out of place, tell me please.

General characteristics

Crew: 1
Length: 24.5 m
Wingspan: 15.5 m to 17 m
Height: 6.0 m
Wing area: 66 m²
Empty weight: 17,000kg
Loaded weight: 28,000kg
Max takeoff weight: 36,000 kg
Powerplant: 2× High-power Afterburning turbofans
* 2-dimensional Thrust vectoring: ±30° at ~15° per second, depending on thrust level
* Dry thrust: 108 kN each
* Thrust with afterburner: 156 kN each

Performance

Maximum speed: Mach 1.9
* At sea level: Mach 1.23
* Cruise speed: 945 km/h (Mach .765) on dry thrust, 2,364 km/h on full thrust
* Range: 2,900 km
* Service ceiling: 18,000 m
* Rate of climb: 249 m/s

Pilot Interface

Situational Awareness: Hod's Eyes EUD, cockpit canopy HUD for EUD-less flight
Seating: Ejector seat reclined at (45-60 degrees?), adjustable forward-back up-down by ground crew.
Interface: Low-transfer right side control stick, left side throttle control with separate afterburn lever. Integrated keyboard for maintenance crew troubleshooting. Voice control integrated in EUD helmet.
Instrumentation: 'Glass' cockpit with four low-glare screens.
*Central screen provides most heads-down instrumentation
*left screen displays diagnostic readout, colour-coded for status
*right screen provides armament status
*lower 'crotch view' screen provides feed from standoff missile cameras, transmitted video and images, or strategic map.
*HUD provides speed, directional compass, altimeter, horizon and attitude, simplified fuel level, active weapon. Printed on front most segment of canopy. Offlines if EUD is detected.
*EUD provides HUD information, as well as Radar contacts in complete arc around the fighter. Plug-and-play compatible.

Armament

3 body compartments, 8 hardpoints total.
*2x 2 Hardpoint compartments, located outside turbine assemblies.
*1x4 Hardpoint compartment, located between cockpit and turbines.
6 under wing hardpoints with removable pylons.
4 conformal underbody hardpoints
1 EW-dedicated hardpoint, ventral surface under scorpion tail assembly

Pumped dorsal ports on back of aircraft for conformal fuel range extension tanks. Up to 8,000 Kg fuel.

Guns: 1 × 22 mm rotary autocannon with 230 rounds. Optional external gunpods, Underwing
Missiles: assorted medium- and short-range guided missiles of LASER-TV, active, semi-active and heat-seeking variants mounted underwing and internal.
Long-range and standoff missiles of remote controlled or guided models on conformal underbody points.
Electronic Warfare: ECM or ECCM.

[The Corparation]

USAF has three fighters. F-15, F-16, and F-22

Four; F-15, F-16, F-22, F-35[ew].

15 and 16 are dead because Gates made sure of that; as is Raptor.

F-35 is still in development.

Also F-16 and F-15 are anything but dead. F-16 is still in production (Just not for the US) and F-15s are constantly getting upgradess of some sort. F-22s though yeah Gates is killing them, he also trying to kill most of the F-35s planned. If he has his way the USAF will still be flying what we have today in fifty years.He wants our B-52s to last another 30 years. Our current bombers are all over fifty years old. He wants them to work until their 80.

[Licana]

Other than that weird ventral stabilizer, nothing I can find.

[Minnysota]

Four; F-15, F-16, F-22, F-35[ew].

15 and 16 are dead because Gates made sure of that; as is Raptor.

F-35 is still in development.

Also F-16 and F-15 are anything but dead. F-16 is still in production (Just not for the US) and F-15s are constantly getting upgradess of some sort. F-22s though yeah Gates is killing them, he also trying to kill most of the F-35s planned. If he has his way the USAF will still be flying what we have today in fifty years.He wants our B-52s to last another 30 years. Our current bombers are all over fifty years old. He wants them to work until their 80.

We should make the Bomber of 2036 the bomber of 2016

Another thing, if we want stealth air superiority fighters, why don't we invest in the F-15 Silent Eagle?

[ServoDroid Inc]

A Vulture Droid in fighter Mode

[The Corparation]

F-35 is still in development.

Also F-16 and F-15 are anything but dead. F-16 is still in production (Just not for the US) and F-15s are constantly getting upgradess of some sort. F-22s though yeah Gates is killing them, he also trying to kill most of the F-35s planned. If he has his way the USAF will still be flying what we have today in fifty years.He wants our B-52s to last another 30 years. Our current bombers are all over fifty years old. He wants them to work until their 80.

We should make the Bomber of 2036 the bomber of 2016

Another thing, if we want stealth air superiority fighters, why don't we invest in the F-15 Silent Eagle?

Because the Silent Eagle isn't stealth.

For the bomber for 2016 I still can't see why they don't just pull the F-23 out of the warehouse and turn it into a bomber, its been proposed and there aren't any problems that would keep it from working

[Minnysota]

The F-15SE has some stealth features (not as many as the F-22), is cheaper, and is still a great Air Superiority Fighter.. I would assume the latest versions of the F-15 could take on the best Russian aircraft.

[The Grand World Order]

The F-15SE has some stealth features (not as many as the F-22), is cheaper, and is still a great Air Superiority Fighter.. I would assume the latest versions of the F-15 could take on the best Russian aircraft.

PAK-FA?

That's what I'm afraid of. We need the F-22 if we're going to be able to compete with those...

[Minnysota]

The F-15SE has some stealth features (not as many as the F-22), is cheaper, and is still a great Air Superiority Fighter.. I would assume the latest versions of the F-15 could take on the best Russian aircraft.

PAK-FA?

That's what I'm afraid of. We need the F-22 if we're going to be able to compete with those...

I know this is probably wrong, and I've never taken the time to actually prove this, but I have heard that the F-35 could beat out a PAK-FA

[The Corparation]

The F-15SE has some stealth features (not as many as the F-22), is cheaper, and is still a great Air Superiority Fighter.. I would assume the latest versions of the F-15 could take on the best Russian aircraft.

PAK-FA?

That's what I'm afraid of. We need the F-22 if we're going to be able to compete with those...

Exactly. Even if we don't face down Russia (Unlikely) or India (Very Unlikely) we probably will end up facing down someone elso who buys Fighters from Russia. Like N. Korea, China, and possibly Iran.

[Amerikians]

PAK-FA?

That's what I'm afraid of. We need the F-22 if we're going to be able to compete with those...

Exactly. Even if we don't face down Russia (Unlikely) or India (Very Unlikely) we probably will end up facing down someone elso who buys Fighters from Russia. Like N. Korea, China, and possibly Iran.

China makes their own based on Russian designs and they're always shittier.

@ The Other Guy.

F-35 < PAK-FA

[The Corparation]

Exactly. Even if we don't face down Russia (Unlikely) or India (Very Unlikely) we probably will end up facing down someone elso who buys Fighters from Russia. Like N. Korea, China, and possibly Iran.

China makes their own based on Russian designs and they're always shittier.

@ The Other Guy.

F-35 < PAK-FA

They'll still probably try and buy a few so they can revers engineer it.

[Minnysota]

Exactly. Even if we don't face down Russia (Unlikely) or India (Very Unlikely) we probably will end up facing down someone elso who buys Fighters from Russia. Like N. Korea, China, and possibly Iran.

China makes their own based on Russian designs and they're always shittier.

@ The Other Guy.

F-35 < PAK-FA

Shouldn't you factor in that America has better pilots?

[Amerikians]

China makes their own based on Russian designs and they're always shittier.

@ The Other Guy.

F-35 < PAK-FA

Shouldn't you factor in that America has better pilots?

Doesn't matter; F-35 is the whipping boy of suckarse. It's the worst plane ever designed and it's stealth only works against NATO radar. Russian Pilots instantly win because the 'stealth' plane is right bloody there like a christmas tree.

[Minnysota]

So... if it was a PAK-FA vs. a F-22 the F-22 would win?

[Amerikians]

So... if it was a PAK-FA vs. a F-22 the F-22 would win?

I honestly don't know, they're practically equals. Would come down to who screws up first.

[Amerikians]

What about one PAK-FA vs. a flight of F/A-18?

PAK-FA loses if an F/A-18 can get a missile lock in the very short time it takes the PAK to fire it's missiles; which opens up it's hardpoints for like...Two seconds?

[Amerikians]

PAK-FA loses if an F/A-18 can get a missile lock in the very short time it takes the PAK to fire it's missiles; which opens up it's hardpoints for like...Two seconds?

If you've got 4 planes looking for that lock the chances go up a good bit. What about IR locks?

True; and Victory is theirs. @ IR Locks

[The Grand World Order]

So... if it was a PAK-FA vs. a F-22 the F-22 would win?

At the very least, the F-22 wouldn't get absolutely raped.

[Licana]

Shouldn't you factor in that America has better pilots?

Doesn't matter; F-35 is the whipping boy of suckarse. It's the worst plane ever designed and it's stealth only works against NATO radar. Russian Pilots instantly win because the 'stealth' plane is right bloody there like a christmas tree.

I would like a source for this, you know, something that isn't just you bashing the F-35..and even if this were true (which I can't say because my knowledge of the Russian radar systems is limited), than the F-22 Raptor is then pretty much useless as the T-50 pilots would be able to see it first.

[The Corparation]

So... if it was a PAK-FA vs. a F-22 the F-22 would win?

At the very least, the F-22 wouldn't get absolutely raped.

If it came down to a dog fight it could be raped. PAK FA has 3-D Thrust Vectoring. F-22 only has 2-D

[Birkaine]

Doesn't matter; F-35 is the whipping boy of suckarse. It's the worst plane ever designed and it's stealth only works against NATO radar. Russian Pilots instantly win because the 'stealth' plane is right bloody there like a christmas tree.

I would like a source for this, you know, something that isn't just you bashing the F-35..and even if this were true (which I can't say because my knowledge of the Russian radar systems is limited), than the F-22 Raptor is then pretty much useless as the T-50 pilots would be able to see it first.

Also, he was speaking about the F-35, not the F-22, which as far as I've heard has all-aspect stealth on a broader set of frequencies. Additionally, the T-50 uses an inferior radar, so theorically it would get spotted by the Raptor first. Not that it would matter, as by the time it does that they would be in WVR I think.