Your Nation's Air Force [MKI]

[Vorkova]

Something happened in the development and service of the Tu-22 that for the "M" variant they completely redesigned it.
This implies some sort of significant failing within the Tu-22's design.

Fair point. I'll scrap what I have left then.

[Spirit of Hope]

Something happened in the development and service of the Tu-22 that for the "M" variant they completely redesigned it.
This implies some sort of significant failing within the Tu-22's design.

Playing devils advocate here, but it could also point to a change in design priorities, not necessarily a flaw in the design.

[Imperializt Russia]

Something happened in the development and service of the Tu-22 that for the "M" variant they completely redesigned it.
This implies some sort of significant failing within the Tu-22's design.

Fair point. I'll scrap what I have left then.

I just recall that fact from the Tu-22M's article. Looking at the Tu-22's article, the modifications to allow the Tu-22K to carry the Kh-22 missile was described as a "safety hazard". I'm unsure if the engine positioning was an issue in itself, but the Tu-22M had them repositioned for a reason, and will have presumably been redesigned around improved capability in carrying the Kh-22 missile.

[The Soodean Imperium]

Something happened in the development and service of the Tu-22 that for the "M" variant they completely redesigned it.
This implies some sort of significant failing within the Tu-22's design.

Playing devils advocate here, but it could also point to a change in design priorities, not necessarily a flaw in the design.

I vaguely remember hearing something about the Tu-22 having trouble during takeoffs and landings, but I don't remember the details off the top of my head. It did have an unusually high number of crashes and other accidents, though, which suggests some set of technical problems.

[Imperializt Russia]

Wiki claims that "top-rate" pilots of Tu-16 aircraft, those initially selected for conversion to Tu-22, did little piloting. Flight of the aircraft was apparently delegated to the co-pilot in a Tu-16, with takeoff and landing conducted by these top pilots.
As such, when stripped of their co-pilot and stuck in a more complex cockpit, they apparently had no idea what they were doing and supposedly Su-17 pilots were selected for conversion instead.

Something happened in the development and service of the Tu-22 that for the "M" variant they completely redesigned it.
This implies some sort of significant failing within the Tu-22's design.

Playing devils advocate here, but it could also point to a change in design priorities, not necessarily a flaw in the design.

Wiki cites a Russian-sounding book dated 1998 for "safety hazard". Wiki and FAS both note pilot crashes, intensive maintenance requirements and insufficient capabilities of the Tu-22, all improved upon by the Tu-22M (and, if you believe the Americans, it's actually called the Tu-26).

[Vorkova]

Wiki claims that "top-rate" pilots of Tu-16 aircraft, those initially selected for conversion to Tu-22, did little piloting. Flight of the aircraft was apparently delegated to the co-pilot in a Tu-16, with takeoff and landing conducted by these top pilots.
As such, when stripped of their co-pilot and stuck in a more complex cockpit, they apparently had no idea what they were doing and supposedly Su-17 pilots were selected for conversion instead.

Playing devils advocate here, but it could also point to a change in design priorities, not necessarily a flaw in the design.

Wiki cites a Russian-sounding book dated 1998 for "safety hazard". Wiki and FAS both note pilot crashes, intensive maintenance requirements and insufficient capabilities of the Tu-22, all improved upon by the Tu-22M (and, if you believe the Americans, it's actually called the Tu-26).

Iraq didn't seem to have much luck with the TU-22, but then Iraqi military didn't have much luck with anything. I'll take your advice anyway and scrap them in favour of something better, probably one of the upgraded TU-95 models.

[Imperializt Russia]

The Tu-22M standard will offer you a highly capable aircraft. I say simply retcon your Tu-22/M fleet to consist mostly of Tu-22Ms with possibly some Tu-22s knocking about from earlier days.

[Transnapastain]

Wiki claims that "top-rate" pilots of Tu-16 aircraft, those initially selected for conversion to Tu-22, did little piloting. Flight of the aircraft was apparently delegated to the co-pilot in a Tu-16, with takeoff and landing conducted by these top pilots.
As such, when stripped of their co-pilot and stuck in a more complex cockpit, they apparently had no idea what they were doing and supposedly Su-17 pilots were selected for conversion instead.
Wiki cites a Russian-sounding book dated 1998 for "safety hazard". Wiki and FAS both note pilot crashes, intensive maintenance requirements and insufficient capabilities of the Tu-22, all improved upon by the Tu-22M (and, if you believe the Americans, it's actually called the Tu-26).

Iraq didn't seem to have much luck with the TU-22, but then Iraqi military didn't have much luck with anything. I'll take your advice anyway and scrap them in favour of something better, probably one of the upgraded TU-95 models.

Seems to me that the Tu-95 and the Tu-22 serve a different role entirely? Aside from both being bombers, of course.

Why are you not considering replacing them with Tu-22M's? For that matter, didn't you mention you were looking into Blackjacks earlier? Couldn't you simply save yourself some money, personal, and maintenance time by scrapping or selling your Tu-22's, and possibly increasing your Tu-160 fleet?

If you want to me all crazy...theres the Sukhoi T-4. I'm not...really saying its the most practical solution, mind you.

[Imperializt Russia]

To be honest, having seen it from looking up these things about the Tu-22 Blinder, I think that Su-17 Fitter is a pretty sexy and perfectly capable airframe. The Su-22M5 upgrade package sounds lovely.

[Vorkova]

Seems to me that the Tu-95 and the Tu-22 serve a different role entirely? Aside from both being bombers, of course.

Both the TU-95 and TU-22 can carry the Kh-22 so I assumed the roles would be interchangeable.

Why are you not considering replacing them with Tu-22M's?

I really like the look of them and I thought they could be of some use. I'm not a fan of the USSR's practice of keeping old weapons around, but I thought I could drop it in this case.

For that matter, didn't you mention you were looking into Blackjacks earlier? Couldn't you simply save yourself some money, personal, and maintenance time by scrapping or selling your Tu-22's, and possibly increasing your Tu-160 fleet?

That's probably the best idea. The TU-160 is a spectacular aircraft, both in look and capabilities.

If you want to me all crazy...theres the Sukhoi T-4. I'm not...really saying its the most practical solution, mind you.

Oooh, I really like the look of this one. I might consider it as a specialised bomber, maybe.

[Imperializt Russia]

The Tu-95 is better used as a patrol aircraft whilst the Tu-22M is a strike aircraft.

The Tu-95 has loiter capability, range, good operating capability and a large payload and sensor capability.
The Tu-22M has excellent reaction time.

[Oaledonia]

The Tu-95 is better used as a patrol aircraft whilst the Tu-22M is a strike aircraft.

The Tu-95 has loiter capability, range, good operating capability and a large payload and sensor capability.
The Tu-22M has excellent reaction time.

I'm using the Spruce Bear

[Imperializt Russia]

The Tu-95 is better used as a patrol aircraft whilst the Tu-22M is a strike aircraft.

The Tu-95 has loiter capability, range, good operating capability and a large payload and sensor capability.
The Tu-22M has excellent reaction time.

I'm using the Spruce Bear

Spruce Bear of ALVAMA fame?
Fuck all the things, witness the majesty of a picture I didn't draw.

[Vorkova]

How effective would something like this have actually been? I can see the obvious issues with using a nuclear reactor to power an aircraft, but the possible range increase seems interesting.

[Imperializt Russia]

Reactor-powered aircraft have a poor power-to-weight ratio and obvious political issues though. They shouldn't pose significant actual safety risks - though the B-36 nuclear project features insufficient shielding, the colossal CL-1201 proposal (weighing five thousand tons and lofting a 2.3GWe reactor) is often claimed to have been able to withstand being slammed into a mountain and have its reactor recovered.
I mean, we have nuclear fuel cases that are completely indestructible, why not reactor housings?

[Oaledonia]

I'm using the Spruce Bear

Spruce Bear of ALVAMA fame?
Fuck all the things, witness the majesty of a picture I didn't draw.

Yep :3
I added camo, but didn't add my name to the credits. Do I do that even with camo?

[Transnapastain]

How effective would something like this have actually been? I can see the obvious issues with using a nuclear reactor to power an aircraft, but the possible range increase seems interesting.

Weren't we just talking about nuclear powered aircraft?

[Oaledonia]

How effective would something like this have actually been? I can see the obvious issues with using a nuclear reactor to power an aircraft, but the possible range increase seems interesting.

Weren't we just talking about nuclear powered aircraft?

I can't lineart that shit.
Anyone know anybody on shipbucket that will attempt this?

[Imperializt Russia]

Spruce Bear of ALVAMA fame?
Fuck all the things, witness the majesty of a picture I didn't draw.
(Image)

Yep :3
I added camo, but didn't add my name to the credits. Do I do that even with camo?

There is a Spruce Bear with Cuban-style green and blue camo, known as the "Viet-Khung" of Karaia.

With crediting, you would credit ALVAMA, since he drew the aircraft and you just added camo. Broadly speaking, ALVAMA is still the primary artist of that work.

[Oaledonia]

Yep :3
I added camo, but didn't add my name to the credits. Do I do that even with camo?

There is a Spruce Bear with Cuban-style green and blue camo, known as the "Viet-Khung" of Karaia.

With crediting, you would credit ALVAMA, since he drew the aircraft and you just added camo. Broadly speaking, ALVAMA is still the primary artist of that work.

Okay cool.

[The Soodean Imperium]

Yep :3
I added camo, but didn't add my name to the credits. Do I do that even with camo?

There is a Spruce Bear with Cuban-style green and blue camo, known as the "Viet-Khung" of Karaia.

With crediting, you would credit ALVAMA, since he drew the aircraft and you just added camo. Broadly speaking, ALVAMA is still the primary artist of that work.

On that topic, what kind of changes would you have to make before being able to add your name? I.e., for my ORBAT diagrams I took a BMP-2, removed the turret, and added a 2B9 Vasilek mortar (which I made myself); would that merit a "Glorfindel & Soode" caption?

[Morrdh]

You guys hear of the Nazi atomic bomber spaceplane that would be powered by a crudton of V2s?

That, as with 99.9999% of all Nazi related supertech is a urban myth or completely unprofitable. Silbervogel itself would've been incinerated upon reentry in its original design or gotten reinforced heatshields reducing payload to abysmally useless.

On a semi-related note, British Rail filed a patent for a flying saucer in 1970.

[Imperializt Russia]

Yeah, basically.
As I understand it, the original artist is credited first, then a comma, then yourself.

Not sure how "and" flies, because to me it implies a collaboration.

[Oaledonia]

Weren't we just talking about nuclear powered aircraft?

I can't lineart that shit.
Anyone know anybody on shipbucket that will attempt this?

Repost from hell.

[Triplebaconation]

Something happened in the development and service of the Tu-22 that for the "M" variant they completely redesigned it.
This implies some sort of significant failing within the Tu-22's design.

The Tu-22M isn't a variant. That's crazy talk.

The Tu-22 was just a bad plane, with one possible redeeming characteristic.

It crashed a lot because it had poor visibility, a dangerously high stall speed, and the poor pilot couldn't physically reach some of the controls. It was also exhausting to fly because of the insanely high control forces. Tupolev sadistically compounded the problems with downward-ejecting seats.

Fitter pilots were probably picked because they were used to some of the flaws, universal on contemporary Sukhois.

Backfires were also quite bad in some respects, but they had the advantage of a much longer development cycle.

In other news, the only thing worse than a Russian carrier fighter is a Russian carrier bomber. A navalized Su-34 simply isn't feasible.