by Kyavan » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:49 am
by Wawakanatote » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:51 am
OOC Factbook
Pro: Marxism-Leninism
Anti: Capitalism, Fascism
We do not exist under communism, but under the
primary stage of socialist development (nep/state capitalism)
Please adjust accordingly
Full Nation Name: Supranational Union of Socialist Republics
Government: Federal Intergovernmental P&E Union
Political Leaders: C.Song Liyuan, V.C.Lev Bronshtein
National Anthem: "Hymn of the Union"
by Kyavan » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:54 am
by Wawakanatote » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:54 am
OOC Factbook
Pro: Marxism-Leninism
Anti: Capitalism, Fascism
We do not exist under communism, but under the
primary stage of socialist development (nep/state capitalism)
Please adjust accordingly
Full Nation Name: Supranational Union of Socialist Republics
Government: Federal Intergovernmental P&E Union
Political Leaders: C.Song Liyuan, V.C.Lev Bronshtein
National Anthem: "Hymn of the Union"
by Kyavan » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:58 am
by Autarkheia » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:59 am
by Kyavan » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:01 pm
Autarkheia wrote:IC, my nation would be against both, but probably more a fan of socialism because it's compatible with a strong nation-state, whereas communism (in theory anyway) is not. Communist regimes like the PRC would be seen as admirable for their orderly economic development and social control. Stalinism would be seen as misguided in its goals, but its authoritarian methods would be seen as ideal.
As for democratic or libertarian socialism, our nation is very against it because we reject all forms of egalitarianism. We believe in strict hierarchy and preserving the class system. We think abolishing private property and money is a ridiculous and unworkable goal, and abolishing the state is even more ridiculous, so we are also against anarchism.
by Wawakanatote » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:12 pm
Kyavan wrote:Wawakanatote wrote:
Well, you're wrong. You're likely confusing socialism for social democracy which is a common thing. But socialism is a process which eventually leads to communism as a bridge between capitalism and communism.
In the defense of the difference between the two. In socialism, workers earn wages they can spend as they choose, while the government, not citizens, owns and operates the means for production. While in communism, the working class owns everything, and everyone works toward the same communal goal. There are no wealthy or poor people -- all are equal.
OOC Factbook
Pro: Marxism-Leninism
Anti: Capitalism, Fascism
We do not exist under communism, but under the
primary stage of socialist development (nep/state capitalism)
Please adjust accordingly
Full Nation Name: Supranational Union of Socialist Republics
Government: Federal Intergovernmental P&E Union
Political Leaders: C.Song Liyuan, V.C.Lev Bronshtein
National Anthem: "Hymn of the Union"
by Kyavan » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:16 pm
Wawakanatote wrote:Kyavan wrote:
In the defense of the difference between the two. In socialism, workers earn wages they can spend as they choose, while the government, not citizens, owns and operates the means for production. While in communism, the working class owns everything, and everyone works toward the same communal goal. There are no wealthy or poor people -- all are equal.
The differences between socialism and communism is not meant to declare which side is "better" because they are meant to work towards he same goal, which is communism. The biggest examples of socialist countries are the USSR and China both of which improved the lives of their people greatly over their previous predecessors.
by Autarkheia » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:18 pm
by Kyavan » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:21 pm
Autarkheia wrote:The terms "socialism" and "communism" can mean different things and the way they are used in Marxism is not the same way everyone uses them. Important thing to keep in mind when discussing this.
by Wawakanatote » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:25 pm
Kyavan wrote:Wawakanatote wrote:
The differences between socialism and communism is not meant to declare which side is "better" because they are meant to work towards he same goal, which is communism. The biggest examples of socialist countries are the USSR and China both of which improved the lives of their people greatly over their previous predecessors.
Perhaps in the short term. Under Lenin, the USSR prospered greatly under a communist regime but once he died. It was that same regime that caused mass poverty across the whole of Russia. Socialism; especially democratic socialism is every successful in countries like Norway and Sweden.Countries I might add, that haven't even explored the idea of communism.
OOC Factbook
Pro: Marxism-Leninism
Anti: Capitalism, Fascism
We do not exist under communism, but under the
primary stage of socialist development (nep/state capitalism)
Please adjust accordingly
Full Nation Name: Supranational Union of Socialist Republics
Government: Federal Intergovernmental P&E Union
Political Leaders: C.Song Liyuan, V.C.Lev Bronshtein
National Anthem: "Hymn of the Union"
by Kyavan » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:26 pm
Wawakanatote wrote:Kyavan wrote:
Perhaps in the short term. Under Lenin, the USSR prospered greatly under a communist regime but once he died. It was that same regime that caused mass poverty across the whole of Russia. Socialism; especially democratic socialism is every successful in countries like Norway and Sweden.Countries I might add, that haven't even explored the idea of communism.
I F*CKING KNEW IT! I knew you were going to call social democracies,"democratic socialist" (a term used to describe Allende and Maduro). Neither Sweden nor Norway have a socialist economy, nor do they have a socialist market economy like China. Also, you do realize that most of the prosperity that happened in the USSR happened under Stalin's time right? Lenin's USSR was nowhere near being a prosperous nation by the time he died as his time was filled mostly by war and restructuring the USSR after civil war. Stalin's USSR (a socialist state) was the one of the only countries that didn't feel the effects of the great depression while also becoming a world superpower in around 20 years.
by Kremlinian Russia » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:29 pm
Kyavan wrote:Perhaps in the short term. Under Lenin, the USSR prospered greatly under a communist regime but once he died. It was that same regime that caused mass poverty across the whole of Russia. Socialism; especially democratic socialism is every successful in countries like Norway and Sweden.Countries I might add, that haven't even explored the idea of communism.
Kyavan wrote:Wawakanatote wrote:
I F*CKING KNEW IT! I knew you were going to call social democracies,"democratic socialist" (a term used to describe Allende and Maduro). Neither Sweden nor Norway have a socialist economy, nor do they have a socialist market economy like China. Also, you do realize that most of the prosperity that happened in the USSR happened under Stalin's time right? Lenin's USSR was nowhere near being a prosperous nation by the time he died as his time was filled mostly by war and restructuring the USSR after civil war. Stalin's USSR (a socialist state) was the one of the only countries that didn't feel the effects of the great depression while also becoming a world superpower in around 20 years.
Because under Stalin, the USSR was already in a depression!
by Picentia » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:30 pm
by Nilrahrarfan » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:36 pm
by Kyrusia » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:44 pm
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