NS Military Realism Consultation Thread Vol. 11.0

[New Vihenia]

I guess even at this time and technology, a Vertical gun that exclusively fire guided munitions are still not wanted ?

[Gallia-]

CRT display, LCD or LED?

CRT or FED for color depth.

[United Muscovite Nations]

you can reconfigure what they do by making them change seats

it's faster and easier

That's:
1. Boring
2. Problematic if one is wounded, dying, sleeping or just has horrible diarrhea
3. Not future enough

>basing logistical decisions around rule of cool

[New Vihenia]

For anyone wanting a read on SFRJ (Solid Fueled RamJet) projectile.

https://id.scribd.com/document/45261802 ... Projectile

[Purpelia]

That's:
1. Boring
2. Problematic if one is wounded, dying, sleeping or just has horrible diarrhea
3. Not future enough

>basing logistical decisions around rule of cool

It's a 2010-something tank that's realistically not going to be functionally in service for another decade or two. Such projects always tend to revolve around rule of cool until they inevitably morph into something useful or get canceled. See MBT-70.
Especially since my focus now is the period between 1890 and 1930 in terms of my lore and kit. Although rule of cool is in force there as well, but in a different way. Think 20mm belt fed machine gun on a wheeled platform like that of the 25mm AT guns France and Switzerland had lying around. That thing is going to remain relevant throughout the war in some way, shape or form. It's actually useful. And it's cool as all hell.

[Kassaran]

So, on the topic of the current worldwide pandemic underway, what are some of the NBC/CBRN units ya'll got going and what are your general setups and doctrine for employing them? Do they act in support of civilian infrastructure through using additional mobile field hospitals and medical units? Or do you enable for civilian hospitals and clinics to utilize additional facilities provided by the military on their own bases? I for one am expecting to be seeing what the US Army's containment measures are in the coming weeks and likely modelling my own nation's units off of the strengths and weaknesses I see in their conduct. For one, I'm seriously considering additionally writing a white-paper in review of what has appeared to be an abysmal policy made to combat the spread of the virus.

[Purpelia]

I suspect that this is going to heavily depend on the country in question.

[Danternoust]

I have decided it is cheaper for my country to use aluminum foam body armor, which is more durable and longer lasting than ceramics.

[Scott Bakula From Quantum Leap]

Yeah, so I need some help filling in the missing parts of my military, here's my military Factbook so far.

Thoughts?

[The Manticoran Empire]

Is the ROAD structure from the 1970s still a viable structure for armored and mechanized divisions? Is it a structure that can absorb the advancements in C4ISR technologies?

[Austrasien]

I guess even at this time and technology, a Vertical gun that exclusively fire guided munitions are still not wanted ?

Long-range guided gun projectiles don't have any significant advantage over guided missiles except you can fire them from existing cannons.

But a brand new cannon that cannot fire anything else? Why bother? A box of VLS cells is much cheaper.

[Purpelia]

Long-range guided gun projectiles don't have any significant advantage over guided missiles except you can fire them from existing cannons.

But a brand new cannon that cannot fire anything else? Why bother? A box of VLS cells is much cheaper.

Don't they have a much smaller initial signature than proper missiles? I mean, theoretically a GLM could turn its engine on many meters away from the launch platform. And presumably the gun flash of a tank, giant as it is is still less than a missile isn't it?

[Gallia-]

Either can be seen from orbit so it's not exactly low signature lol.

[Austrasien]

Don't they have a much smaller initial signature than proper missiles? I mean, theoretically a GLM could turn its engine on many meters away from the launch platform. And presumably the gun flash of a tank, giant as it is is still less than a missile isn't it?

Potentially, but rocket launchers which shoot and scoot have shown themselves to be highly survivable.

When covertness is essential other methods of delivery like FOG missiles/loitering weapons/small UAVs are much more promising options than guns which, though they have lower signatures than rockets, are not low signature weapons.

[New Vihenia]

Long-range guided gun projectiles don't have any significant advantage over guided missiles except you can fire them from existing cannons.

But a brand new cannon that cannot fire anything else? Why bother? A box of VLS cells is much cheaper.

So would be better to make a guided projectile that can be fired from a standard cannon.

Then i guess Ramjet become seriously attractive as it appears something like LRLAP might be difficult to support for something like M109.

[Gallia-]

There are similar rounds for existing 5" guns like Vulcano.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

My country has to deal with the threat of the world's two largest military groups at the same time.The socialist camp calls us heresy, while the bourgeois camp calls us enemy.The prairies and plains in the north are easy for large-scale tank groups to attack.The eastern coast is blocked by the military bases of the capitalist camp. Multiple carrier battle groups threaten our port at any time.The vast rainforest in the southwest makes it easy for special forces to infiltrate.In addition to this, our country is a large number of mountain areas with poor transportation.This makes our population very concentrated. We have to face the threat of nuclear attack from the world's two superpowers.Relatively backward industry, weak trade channel and encouraged international environment.Capable of building tanks, missiles, airplanes, rockets and nuclear bombs. But 10 to 20 years behind the international mainstream.Basically no navy

I would like to hear your views on military construction under such circumstances.

[New Vihenia]

Nukes, many of them for deterrence.

[Gallia-]

literally

[Shanghai industrial complex]

Nukes, many of them for deterrence.

You'll never press that button unless you find a nuclear bomb heading for you

[New Vihenia]

You'll never press that button unless you find a nuclear bomb heading for you

Not if you let them know you can Bite back. Go nuclear too.

2nd option is be a client state of 1 and let them do the fighting.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

You'll never press that button unless you find a nuclear bomb heading for you

Not if you let them know you can Bite back. Go nuclear too.

2nd option is be a client state of 1 and let them do the fighting.

Ok,In fact, I support the maintenance of a nuclear arsenal of the necessary size.After the Korean War, there was no large-scale fighting in major countries.This should be the credit of nuclear weapons.
Everyone uses negotiation to solve the problem.congratulations!

[New Vihenia]

So, to justify the cost and reduction of payload of precision munitions like guided shell. There is accuracy argument where the amount of the munitions expended per targets can be reduced. The issue is to put it into some quantities one can see.

One way to address it is by using the SSKP (Single Shot Kill Probability). The equation is basically developed for nuclear exchange but hey.. despite the difference in how it generate explosion, the blast principles remains the same. So in order to calculate the "benefit" of precision munition's accuracy vs how many rounds to be expended.

So here is the bit of a result, could be suitable for well anyone advertising munitions.

So we have long range M549 RAP (Rocket Assisted Projectile) shell, lobbed to 30 Km.. will have CEP of 267 m. It has like 15 Kg of explosive filler. Assuming 5 PSI target hardness which is a typical house and 15 Kg of filler which in turn equivalent to about 19.5 Kg of TNT.

The conventional artillery with that shell have like 0.054% of Single shot kill probability against that target. and to get the amount of rounds required to be expended i divided 100% or 1 with that percentage. So it would be like :

R=1/0.00054
R=1846

So 1846 rounds have to be expended to kill that target.

In the other hand we have precision munition, which half of it are seeker and GPS, the fillings are reduced to mere 3 Kg, of same composition which would mean it would yield about the same as 3.9 Kg of TNT. With 3 m CEP which should be what it's like when it has laser illuminating the target. The SSKP would be 76 %. So at most only 2 rounds need to be expended for every target.

But i wonder if there is a better method.

[The Manticoran Empire]

So, to justify the cost and reduction of payload of precision munitions like guided shell. There is accuracy argument where the amount of the munitions expended per targets can be reduced. The issue is to put it into some quantities one can see.

One way to address it is by using the SSKP (Single Shot Kill Probability). The equation is basically developed for nuclear exchange but hey.. despite the difference in how it generate explosion, the blast principles remains the same. So in order to calculate the "benefit" of precision munition's accuracy vs how many rounds to be expended.

So here is the bit of a result, could be suitable for well anyone advertising munitions.

So we have long range M549 RAP (Rocket Assisted Projectile) shell, lobbed to 30 Km.. will have CEP of 267 m. It has like 15 Kg of explosive filler. Assuming 5 PSI target hardness which is a typical house and 15 Kg of filler which in turn equivalent to about 19.5 Kg of TNT.

The conventional artillery with that shell have like 0.054% of Single shot kill probability against that target. and to get the amount of rounds required to be expended i divided 100% or 1 with that percentage. So it would be like :

R=1/0.00054
R=1846

So 1846 rounds have to be expended to kill that target.

In the other hand we have precision munition, which half of it are seeker and GPS, the fillings are reduced to mere 3 Kg, of same composition which would mean it would yield about the same as 3.9 Kg of TNT. With 3 m CEP which should be what it's like when it has laser illuminating the target. The SSKP would be 76 %. So at most only 2 rounds need to be expended for every target.

But i wonder if there is a better method.

This is all well and good against a house but artillery isn't just used against building. When it comes to attacking enemy positions, artillery has a number of uses, including suppression of enemy troops. For those missions, the cheaper, less accurate, but more powerful traditional shells are sufficient.

[Gallia-]

So, to justify the cost and reduction of payload of precision munitions like guided shell. There is accuracy argument where the amount of the munitions expended per targets can be reduced. The issue is to put it into some quantities one can see.

One way to address it is by using the SSKP (Single Shot Kill Probability). The equation is basically developed for nuclear exchange but hey.. despite the difference in how it generate explosion, the blast principles remains the same. So in order to calculate the "benefit" of precision munition's accuracy vs how many rounds to be expended.

So here is the bit of a result, could be suitable for well anyone advertising munitions.

So we have long range M549 RAP (Rocket Assisted Projectile) shell, lobbed to 30 Km.. will have CEP of 267 m. It has like 15 Kg of explosive filler. Assuming 5 PSI target hardness which is a typical house and 15 Kg of filler which in turn equivalent to about 19.5 Kg of TNT.

The conventional artillery with that shell have like 0.054% of Single shot kill probability against that target. and to get the amount of rounds required to be expended i divided 100% or 1 with that percentage. So it would be like :

R=1/0.00054
R=1846

So 1846 rounds have to be expended to kill that target.

In the other hand we have precision munition, which half of it are seeker and GPS, the fillings are reduced to mere 3 Kg, of same composition which would mean it would yield about the same as 3.9 Kg of TNT. With 3 m CEP which should be what it's like when it has laser illuminating the target. The SSKP would be 76 %. So at most only 2 rounds need to be expended for every target.

But i wonder if there is a better method.

You can always use a bigger gun for the PGM but this is pretty much the case.