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by Gallia- » Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:31 am
by Manokan Republic » Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:58 am
Gallia- wrote:the us army used tons of conscripts in korea and vietnam as infantry
it's one of the major reasons it lost both wars lol (not because of conscripts per se, but because the conscription system was easily gamed)
by Albynau » Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:04 pm
by Spirit of Hope » Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:02 pm
Albynau wrote:
2) Is utilizing towed artillery in a conflict with a near-peer adversary suicidal? If you know you're going to receive counter-battery fire and you have to shoot and scoot in order to survive, how do you even do that with towed artillery?
3) I can understand the usage of light/medium mortars at the company level and below by being reasonably man portable and being quick to deliver support. I can understand the efficiency of 155mm howitzers at high levels of organizations. I'm having a harder time understanding the artillery in between the two extremes, like 105mm howitzers or 120mm mortars. If 155 does everything that 105 does except at a larger logistical footprint, wouldn't you just be better off with more 155s and getting rid of 105s entirely? What situation is there where you want to shoot a 105mm howitzer at something versus a 155mm?
I can kind of see a niche for 120mm mortars since you can mount it on a vehicle that has the same footprint as a 81mm mortar carrier, but similar to the above question, if all your mortars except for the light 60mm ones are going to be driven around in vehicles, why bother having a 81mm at all when you could have a 120mm one?
4) Tracks versus wheels for artillery? I understand that tracked is more expensive but has better terrain crossing capability, but I'm not sure how that translates to artillery. How often is artillery supposed to be going into rough terrain? Does it affect their ability to displace after shooting? I imagine wheeled is faster when actually moving, but don't a lot of these vehicles need to deploy ground supports in order to fire which tracked vehicles don't need to do? What kind of military would select something like a Panzerhaubitze 2000 over a CAESAR or vice versa?
5) Do dedicated reconnaissance aircraft like a RF-4E have much of a point nowadays when satellites and drones exist?
6) I don't really know how to word this question so I'll give a scenario.
Nation A is preparing for a Fulda Gap type scenario against a much stronger Nation B. Once hostilities starts it is likely Nation A's air force will be unable to hit Nation B's airfields and other strategic sites or contribute much to the ground fighting and would instead be solely devoting its attention to surviving and contesting the air space over the battlefield. Consequently, once hostilities start, instead of the air force trying to suicidally attack enemy strategic assets, the plan is just to lob as many tactical ballistic missiles at their airfields/harbors/supply depots.
I'm just basing this entirely on the idea that the missiles on the ground in hiding are less vulnerable to being blown away than aircraft trying to get through an air defense network and lots of enemy aircraft.
Thank you in advance.
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by Gallia- » Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:08 pm
by Purpelia » Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:25 am
Gallia- wrote:Towed artillery is harder to kill (in terms of both weapons lost and crew injured or killed) than self-propelled artillery.
This is probably because there are fewer things to actually break on a towed piece (anything can tow a 155mm, even a Humvee, less a 5-ton or whatever, while a Paladin can only tow itself) and the crew is spatially separated and can be better protected against fire (in theory every crewman of a towed gun can have a dugout with overhead protection against bomblets at the least, whereas even the best protected self-propelled piece is limited by tonnage and probably won't stop high penetration warheads like TGSM without significant capital investment). You can also make towed artillery much harder to kill than self propelled guns (in theory, again, because its armor isn't limited by chassis tonnage, as the Chinese PVA proved in Korea when it produced towed artillery firing positions with significant overhead cover capable of resisting 155mm hits).
It is the optimal "high intensity war" artillery, provided you have enough hours (a couple days, at least) to prepare the fighting positions and aren't afraid of limited gun traverse, anyway.
Self propelled guns are either a crutch for wimps who can't use shovels or the arch representation of the cult of shoot and scoot. Towed artillery just finds a good spot and wails away at maximum fire rate, stopping only when the counter fire gets so heavy it starts to damage the piece's fighting position.
by Immoren » Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:39 am
discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there
by Purpelia » Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:40 am
Immoren wrote:Simplest way (towed) artillery battalion can protect itself against enemy counter-battery fire is to simply practice spreading out over so wide geographic area that each enemy fire mission can't stop more than single section functioning.Also you should just replace 60mm with 81mm in all troops that matter and give 60mm as fog dispenser for home guard or special forces or somethnig.
by Velkanika » Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:57 am
Manokan Republic wrote:Gallia- wrote:the us army used tons of conscripts in korea and vietnam as infantry
it's one of the major reasons it lost both wars lol (not because of conscripts per se, but because the conscription system was easily gamed)
Well in Vietnam and Korea, the number of draftees was about half that of WWII, or roughly a third, and most were not in infantry positions that were drafted.
Also I would argue we won both wars, the only issue with Vietnam was pulling out, which lead to South Vietnam being swarmed and civilians being mass murdered, until 1986 when the new government via a CIA back coup was put in to power.
The necessity of a navy, in the restricted sense of the word, springs, therefore, from the existence of a peaceful shipping, and disappears with it, except in the case of a nation which has aggressive tendencies, and keeps up a navy merely as a branch of the military establishment. 1
by Champagne Socialist Sharifistan » Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:15 am
by Somerania » Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:27 am
Somerania wrote:I need some advice
Is the new M84AS1 better than the M84D in anyway? If so can I improve the M84D by adding the better parts of the M84AS1 in it? (I am a democratic Yugoslavia btw)
by Kassaran » Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:26 am
Zarkenis Ultima wrote:Tristan noticed footsteps behind him and looked there, only to see Eric approaching and then pointing his sword at the girl. He just blinked a few times at this before speaking.
"Put that down, Mr. Eric." He said. "She's obviously not a chicken."
by Immoren » Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:49 am
discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there
by Gallia- » Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:59 am
Kassaran wrote:Whomever is more willing to fight. Married soldiers and single soldiers don't differ in their discipline or morale in any particular ways. Age is probably the bigger part in it all and for the job you want to boot.
by Triplebaconation » Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:00 am
Gallia- wrote:the us army used tons of conscripts in korea and vietnam as infantry
it's one of the major reasons it lost both wars lol (not because of conscripts per se, but because the conscription system was easily gamed)
by United Earthlings » Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:02 am
by Gallia- » Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:07 am
Triplebaconation wrote:Gallia- wrote:the us army used tons of conscripts in korea and vietnam as infantry
it's one of the major reasons it lost both wars lol (not because of conscripts per se, but because the conscription system was easily gamed)
The US conscription system wouldn't have worked if draftees got cushy assignments - one of its main purposes was to terrify kids into longer-term voluntary enlistment.
by New Vihenia » Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:08 am
by Immoren » Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:40 am
discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there
by Triplebaconation » Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:47 am
Gallia- wrote:Triplebaconation wrote:
The US conscription system wouldn't have worked if draftees got cushy assignments - one of its main purposes was to terrify kids into longer-term voluntary enlistment.
Very wholesome.
I just meant draft deferments for university students vs. Moron Corps conscription in VN though.
Should have been reversed: deferments for morons and automatic drafting of anyone who scores >50 percentile on SAT or ACT scores. Too easily gamed so the best potential infantrymen who won't die as much in combat end up evading infantry service through a variety of deferments while the worst have to be brought in to fill in the gaps and end up breaking in combat and leading to entire platoons routing or whatever.
by The Army of DxD » Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:58 am
by Gallia- » Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:00 am
Triplebaconation wrote:Gallia- wrote:
Very wholesome.
I just meant draft deferments for university students vs. Moron Corps conscription in VN though.
Should have been reversed: deferments for morons and automatic drafting of anyone who scores >50 percentile on SAT or ACT scores. Too easily gamed so the best potential infantrymen who won't die as much in combat end up evading infantry service through a variety of deferments while the worst have to be brought in to fill in the gaps and end up breaking in combat and leading to entire platoons routing or whatever.
Guys with college deferments actually eventually served in higher proportion than those without them. Of course they were far more likely to be sent to specialist schools and spend their terms in Hawaii or somewhere and a college degree lowered your chances of dying in combat by ten or twenty times.
by Champagne Socialist Sharifistan » Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:10 am
Gallia- wrote:Triplebaconation wrote:
The US conscription system wouldn't have worked if draftees got cushy assignments - one of its main purposes was to terrify kids into longer-term voluntary enlistment.
Very wholesome.
I just meant draft deferments for university students vs. Moron Corps conscription in VN though.
Should have been reversed: deferments for morons and automatic drafting of anyone who scores >50 percentile on SAT or ACT scores. Too easily gamed so the best potential infantrymen who won't die as much in combat end up evading infantry service through a variety of deferments while the worst have to be brought in to fill in the gaps and end up breaking in combat and leading to entire platoons routing or whatever.
by Taihei Tengoku » Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:09 am
by Gallia- » Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:15 am
Taihei Tengoku wrote:The Vietnam problem was that the USA elite fraction was discovered to be entirely disloyal and had no intention of winning Vietnam. A large fraction explicitly wanted to lose Vietnam so they could win the USA internal conflict (e.g. Harvard Crimson Khmer Rouge editorials). Any possible draft scheme would have to go through a disloyal designer rather than a national HOI4 AI.
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