NS Military Realism Consultation Thread Vol. 11.0

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

I meant one person physically dodging them the way they might dodge bullets or a sword.

...

...I...really don't know what is happening here. It's as pointless and silly a statement as "can someone do backflips over a tank?"

The answer is no isn't it?
I got into an argument about this.

Also random civvy can't fight off half of an entire Army can they?
I know it's a silly question but involuntary Munk for life ( the Munkcestrian Republic) says they can.

[Munkcestrian RepubIic]

1.Can anyone dodge nukes?

this was never actually tried out, and i never stated they were able to dodge nukes

2. Can one man take on 2 police forces and half an entire Army?

two police forces and half an entire army? where were they mentioned?

3. Is it realistic ban citizens of certain nations that are not even your enemy from becoming mercenaries?

just because i didn't want to make a thread for mercenary recruitment does not mean that it does not happen. you would be the only applicant so there's no point even if i did want to make one. and all your nations would be counted as enemies anyway.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

two police forces and half an entire army? where were they mentioned?

Dude what did you think would happen? He just gets sent 1 SWAT team?
After the fecking moronic streak that leads to 3 innocent public officials dying in court?!

Do you think Sharifistan and Saranidia have no strategy because they're armies with conscription or are you just racist?

[Spirit of Hope]

This sounds like an RP debate, which we are not in the business of solving for people. If you have an actual question about military realism, then we can give you help there. I suggest you try and work this out in TG or just don't RP with one another.

[The New California Republic]

...

...I...really don't know what is happening here. It's as pointless and silly a statement as "can someone do backflips over a tank?"

The answer is no isn't it?

The question is impossible to answer, because its very premise is so utterly fucking absurd that it is impossible to parse it in order to give an answer in the first place.

[Theodosiya]

This sounds like an RP debate, which we are not in the business of solving for people. If you have an actual question about military realism, then we can give you help there. I suggest you try and work this out in TG or just don't RP with one another.

Since you're a Marine, lemme ask. Do you think a more composite structure is better than ad hoc structure for USMC? Example, organically Marine Regiments are pure artillery or infantry. Why not have Army BCT style? And, what could be done to salvage Indonesian Marine Corps structure?

[Spirit of Hope]

This sounds like an RP debate, which we are not in the business of solving for people. If you have an actual question about military realism, then we can give you help there. I suggest you try and work this out in TG or just don't RP with one another.

Since you're a Marine, lemme ask. Do you think a more composite structure is better than ad hoc structure for USMC? Example, organically Marine Regiments are pure artillery or infantry. Why not have Army BCT style? And, what could be done to salvage Indonesian Marine Corps structure?

The USMC does do ad hoc structures, we call it task organization, take a look at how a MEU is organized. An infantry battalion will have artillery, tanks, and AAVs attached to it, then the infantry battalion, a logistics battalion, and a task organized air unit will be placed under the command of a MEU commander. The MEU then combines with an Amphibious Ready Group (ARG), the naval ships carrying the Marines, and the commander of the ARG/MEU is either the MEU commander or the ARG commander depending on circumstances.

As to the Indonesian Marines, I don't know enough to say anything. So long as you have competent commanders, who understand how to pass units between them, formal structure can be almost whatever you want.

[Theodosiya]

Since you're a Marine, lemme ask. Do you think a more composite structure is better than ad hoc structure for USMC? Example, organically Marine Regiments are pure artillery or infantry. Why not have Army BCT style? And, what could be done to salvage Indonesian Marine Corps structure?

The USMC does do ad hoc structures, we call it task organization, take a look at how a MEU is organized. An infantry battalion will have artillery, tanks, and AAVs attached to it, then the infantry battalion, a logistics battalion, and a task organized air unit will be placed under the command of a MEU commander. The MEU then combines with an Amphibious Ready Group (ARG), the naval ships carrying the Marines, and the commander of the ARG/MEU is either the MEU commander or the ARG commander depending on circumstances.

As to the Indonesian Marines, I don't know enough to say anything. So long as you have competent commanders, who understand how to pass units between them, formal structure can be almost whatever you want.

Why not try to compare both? Ours are too light, in my opinion. And yeah, the task organization. Dunno why, but I prefer to organically mix things at brigade/regiment and then do task organization on the field.

[Ochenea]

Are there any guides or post for things like how to design a mt military or how to rp guerilla warfare? Where do I start?

[Spirit of Hope]

Are there any guides or post for things like how to design a mt military or how to rp guerilla warfare? Where do I start?

Guerrilla Warfare - A Primer for Nationstates Players by Allanea

Designing a full military is hard, the easiest way would be to look at a RL nation with a similar military situation (i.e. size, money, goals, and enemies) and then tweak to fit your desire. If you have a rough idea what your nation has available as resources and what your strategic situation is we can give you pointers with it.

[Gallia-]

Since you're a Marine, lemme ask. Do you think a more composite structure is better than ad hoc structure for USMC? Example, organically Marine Regiments are pure artillery or infantry. Why not have Army BCT style? And, what could be done to salvage Indonesian Marine Corps structure?

The USMC does do ad hoc structures, we call it task organization, take a look at how a MEU is organized. An infantry battalion will have artillery, tanks, and AAVs attached to it, then the infantry battalion, a logistics battalion, and a task organized air unit will be placed under the command of a MEU commander. The MEU then combines with an Amphibious Ready Group (ARG), the naval ships carrying the Marines, and the commander of the ARG/MEU is either the MEU commander or the ARG commander depending on circumstances.

As to the Indonesian Marines, I don't know enough to say anything. So long as you have competent commanders, who understand how to pass units between them, formal structure can be almost whatever you want.

"Indonesia" and "competence" are words that shouldn't be used in the same sentence tbh. We're talking about dudes who outnumbered an enemy nearly 8:1 in population (and thus, potentially, economic output) and were still severely stressed by the presence of two dozen mostly non-functional fighter-bombers (Hawker Hunter F.4s) and a pair of anti-submarine frigates. Putting it another, this is the same society that had an airborne assault defeated by a P2V Neptune. There might be minor competence in the Kopassus, but since they are effectively a Third World genocide squad in armored cars and Hueys (and thus, perhaps not dissimilar to the recent Great Elite Green Beret Commando Raiders who tried to kidnap Maduro before being stopped by the police before they could hurt themselves), I would expect them to be outweighed in tactical prowess by a experienced US Marines battalion.

The main combat experiences of the Indonesian military is "losing to a dead empire's backwater colonial troops mostly by accident" and "killing unarmed villagers with machine guns in a way that would make the hardest Dutch colonials blush [and not in a good way]" after all.

[Theodosiya]

The USMC does do ad hoc structures, we call it task organization, take a look at how a MEU is organized. An infantry battalion will have artillery, tanks, and AAVs attached to it, then the infantry battalion, a logistics battalion, and a task organized air unit will be placed under the command of a MEU commander. The MEU then combines with an Amphibious Ready Group (ARG), the naval ships carrying the Marines, and the commander of the ARG/MEU is either the MEU commander or the ARG commander depending on circumstances.

As to the Indonesian Marines, I don't know enough to say anything. So long as you have competent commanders, who understand how to pass units between them, formal structure can be almost whatever you want.

"Indonesia" and "competence" are words that shouldn't be used in the same sentence tbh. We're talking about dudes who outnumbered an enemy nearly 8:1 in population (and thus, potentially, economic output) and were still severely stressed by the presence of two dozen mostly non-functional fighter-bombers (Hawker Hunter F.4s) and a pair of anti-submarine frigates. Putting it another, this is the same society that had an airborne assault defeated by a P2V Neptune. There might be minor competence in the Kopassus, but since they are effectively a Third World genocide squad in armored cars and Hueys (and thus, perhaps not dissimilar to the recent Great Elite Green Beret Commando Raiders who tried to kidnap Maduro before being stopped by the police before they could hurt themselves), I would expect them to be outweighed in tactical prowess by a experienced US Marines battalion.

The main combat experiences of the Indonesian military is "losing to a dead empire's backwater colonial troops mostly by accident" and "killing unarmed villagers with machine guns in a way that would make the hardest Dutch colonials blush [and not in a good way]" after all.

Yeah, yeah. Whatever. Any idea to jumpstart/whip up? No matter the cost.

[Spirit of Hope]

From my understanding it's a culture issue in the armed forces, which isn't something you can fix with money. You would need strong pressure, preferably internal and external, for change. It would be pressure that would take a long time to start having effects and even longer to get everything done, and during this time the pressure can't stop.

You could try things like sending officers to foreign schools, but then they return to the old army and its culture.

[The Manticoran Empire]

The USMC does do ad hoc structures, we call it task organization, take a look at how a MEU is organized. An infantry battalion will have artillery, tanks, and AAVs attached to it, then the infantry battalion, a logistics battalion, and a task organized air unit will be placed under the command of a MEU commander. The MEU then combines with an Amphibious Ready Group (ARG), the naval ships carrying the Marines, and the commander of the ARG/MEU is either the MEU commander or the ARG commander depending on circumstances.

As to the Indonesian Marines, I don't know enough to say anything. So long as you have competent commanders, who understand how to pass units between them, formal structure can be almost whatever you want.

Why not try to compare both? Ours are too light, in my opinion. And yeah, the task organization. Dunno why, but I prefer to organically mix things at brigade/regiment and then do task organization on the field.

That's how the Army did it until they switched to the BCT. There is nothing stopping you from doing it that way.

[The Manticoran Empire]

some guy,
Thinks the answers to all these questions is yes!
1.Can anyone dodge nukes?

2. Can one man take on 2 police forces and half an entire Army?

3. Is it realistic ban citizens of certain nations that are not even your enemy from becoming mercenaries?

4. Could a civilian teach themselves to be a one-man special forces unit?
the answer is no,
Right?
am I actually losing my mind?
Am I being gas-lighted?

1. Uh...probably not.
2. Depends on exactly how large the police forces and army are and how you define "taking on". One man stopped a column of tanks in Tiananmen in 1989 so there is that.

3. Yes. Nations can bar companies from hiring foreign fighters for a number of reasons, including security concerns or a desire to protect domestic mercenary companies.

4. Yes. It would require dedication but it is doable. Not easy, but doable.

Then again, this is NationStates so there is a level of absurdity in everything.

[Gallia-]

"Indonesia" and "competence" are words that shouldn't be used in the same sentence tbh. We're talking about dudes who outnumbered an enemy nearly 8:1 in population (and thus, potentially, economic output) and were still severely stressed by the presence of two dozen mostly non-functional fighter-bombers (Hawker Hunter F.4s) and a pair of anti-submarine frigates. Putting it another, this is the same society that had an airborne assault defeated by a P2V Neptune. There might be minor competence in the Kopassus, but since they are effectively a Third World genocide squad in armored cars and Hueys (and thus, perhaps not dissimilar to the recent Great Elite Green Beret Commando Raiders who tried to kidnap Maduro before being stopped by the police before they could hurt themselves), I would expect them to be outweighed in tactical prowess by a experienced US Marines battalion.

The main combat experiences of the Indonesian military is "losing to a dead empire's backwater colonial troops mostly by accident" and "killing unarmed villagers with machine guns in a way that would make the hardest Dutch colonials blush [and not in a good way]" after all.

Yeah, yeah. Whatever. Any idea to jumpstart/whip up? No matter the cost.

As I've said before, let the Dutch run the place again. Since you said no matter the cost, the cost is probably going to be the concept of the Javanese nation and people. It's a toxic influence to running Indonesia "properly", at least until Javanese become the outright majority and have exterminated all non-Javanese. Which if Slobodan's attempts to do the same shows, is likely to incite someone's wrath eventually.

Indonesia's greatest military victories, to the extent that they were anything, were under the KNIL. Even then, contemporary accounts were that the ethnic Dutch troops were "doughty" but poorly trained and inexperienced, and local troops (Javanese etc.) could essentially only be counted on to surrender or collapse at the first signs of battle. These assertions were proved right when teh Japanese landed and, after about a week of hasty evacuation, the island was secured pretty much single handedly by a regiment under the command MG Toshihige Shoji. Historically, Indonesia is only really successful at plying the heartstrings of guilty former colonial oppressors in the UN. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, since it worked extremely well in the 1960's when otherwise the Indonesians would have lost completely, but it's probably going to be useless in the 2030's or whatever when the main competitors are people like Japan, Australia, China, and USA, who don't care (anymore).

The Dutch Marines have had a string of greater successes in their extremely limited military experience since the end of Netherlands East Indies than the Indonesian Marines have had in the same time, and not just because they're richer or whatever (they aren't). It's because the sole purpose for the Indonesian military at the moment is to genocide non-Javanese Indonesians, which is neither hard nor particularly challenging, since most of them are unarmed farmers or whatever. It's also not particularly conductive to building a robust military from indigenous people.

No one is going to trust the Indonesian government to either 1) promote people who are incompetent based on political loyalties; 2) genocide non-Javanese with tanks and armored cars if they protest this. This is the crux of the issue. You can at least trust the Dutch to genuinely run the country with intent on developing local infrastructure, as they did in the colonial period.

[Vastronia]

"Can anyone dodge nukes?"...? Alright...? Ignoring how fucking clumsy that question is for a moment, and interpreting it rather generously so that I can actually even begin to answer it, it is certainly possible to mitigate to effects of nuclear weapons, yes.

I meant one person physically dodging them the way they might dodge bullets or a sword.

I mean, sure. As long as it wasn't going off and was just being thrown at you, I suppose it would be possible.

[The Manticoran Empire]

"Can anyone dodge nukes?"...? Alright...? Ignoring how fucking clumsy that question is for a moment, and interpreting it rather generously so that I can actually even begin to answer it, it is certainly possible to mitigate to effects of nuclear weapons, yes.

I meant one person physically dodging them the way they might dodge bullets or a sword.

You can't dodge a bullet. It is physically impossible.

[Munkcestrian RepubIic]

I meant one person physically dodging them the way they might dodge bullets or a sword.

You can't dodge a bullet. It is physically impossible.

Neo did it in The Matrix.

[Arroyo-Abeille]

This sounds like an RP debate, which we are not in the business of solving for people. If you have an actual question about military realism, then we can give you help there. I suggest you try and work this out in TG or just don't RP with one another.

And just like that, I AM BACK

[Shanghai industrial complex]

You can't dodge a bullet. It is physically impossible.

Neo did it in The Matrix.

It's in a virtual world.So he didn't violate the physical rules

[Munkcestrian RepubIic]

Neo did it in The Matrix.

It's in a virtual world.So he didn't violate the physical rules

Didn't know that. I only knew about the dodging because a friend told me about it and asked if I had got it from there (I had not).

[Shanghai industrial complex]

It's in a virtual world.So he didn't violate the physical rules

Didn't know that. I only knew about the dodging because a friend told me about it and asked if I had got it from there (I had not).

Then you have to watch this movie series.This is my favorite movie series before high school.I've seen it about six times

[The Manticoran Empire]

You can't dodge a bullet. It is physically impossible.

Neo did it in The Matrix.

Yes. A fictional character in a film set in a virtual realm where the laws of physics can be violated simply by believing that they don't exist. Feel to try and imitate Neo. I'll send some flowers to your wake.

[Crookfur]

Pfffft, Equilibrium had a better basis for an almost feasible bull shit explanation of how to avoid bullets ie don't be where people are shooting at.

Leaving that aside if you can keep moving and low enough you can make yourself a very difficult target. An unpredictable target that is shooting back at CQB range is about the worst possible scenario for accuracy especially if the shooters have been surprised. On the other hand it only takes one bullet from one slightly more alert and capable shooter to put an end to things.

On balance this is something that would have to discussed OOC before hand to decide what would be best for the story.