NS Military Realism Consultation Thread Vol. 11.0

[Purpelia]

The country in the RP has limited fuel but lots of industrial capacity, so I believe that light tanks are suitable in this case.

For every tank you have in your army you are going to have roughly:
- 1 APC/IFV/Truck as tanks like having infantry around.
- Many trucks for command, radio and other personnel.
- Several trucks to tow your artillery, assuming it's not mechanized as well. Which it might be, thus consuming even more fuel.
- Many trucks to supply all of that with food, water, ammo etc. So much that this point becomes recursive. Truck to supply the supply trucks that supply your supplies.
And that's just on the basic unit level, like a battalion at most. Higher up things only get worse. So really, saving on the tanks isn't much of a saving at all.

If you really really want to use light tanks and want to find a justification for them just make something up like say your country has large areas of marshland where regular tanks can't pass or you want to have amphibious/airborne landing troops that need tanks. Something like that.

[Republic of Penguinian Astronautia]

Okay, so my MT-PMT country has much of its residential areas organized in a sort of communal Oglethorpe plan, with each housing block having all adults 25-55 who aren't criminals or severly disabled serving as a militia. This leads to about 20 militia members per block, with 4 blocks per ward. I am thinking of the standard weapon being based around the scout rifle concept, (a do-anything rifle following those parameters) perhaps semi-auto w/10-20 round mag, and firing a lighter, cartridge than the .308, with less recoil but still good enough for hunting. Any suggestions on this or organization?

[Purpelia]

Okay, so my MT-PMT country has much of its residential areas organized in a sort of communal Oglethorpe plan, with each housing block having all adults 25-55 who aren't criminals or severly disabled serving as a militia. This leads to about 20 militia members per block, with 4 blocks per ward. I am thinking of the standard weapon being based around the scout rifle concept, (a do-anything rifle following those parameters) perhaps semi-auto w/10-20 round mag, and firing a lighter, cartridge than the .308, with less recoil but still good enough for hunting. Any suggestions on this or organization?

Buy AK's.

[Republic of Penguinian Astronautia]

Okay, so my MT-PMT country has much of its residential areas organized in a sort of communal Oglethorpe plan, with each housing block having all adults 25-55 who aren't criminals or severly disabled serving as a militia. This leads to about 20 militia members per block, with 4 blocks per ward. I am thinking of the standard weapon being based around the scout rifle concept, (a do-anything rifle following those parameters) perhaps semi-auto w/10-20 round mag, and firing a lighter, cartridge than the .308, with less recoil but still good enough for hunting. Any suggestions on this or organization?

Buy AK's.

But everyone does that!

[Purpelia]

Buy AK's.

But everyone does that!

Which only proves it is the best way, the only way. As I suggest.

[Theodosiya]

What about deploying Light Tanks to supplement forces that are meant to be airmobile/too light/not meant to deploy MBT on its level? I mean, you won't see SBCT and IBCT with tanks, will you? But SBCT do have MGS. So, 105mm Gun IFV Company for Mechanized Battalion? (Think of it like, 105mm gun wheeled for Motorized and maybe everything else meant to be airborne , tracked for Mechanized. Armored and Heavy Armored goes straight to MBT)

[Amidia-]

The same comparisons of performance hold true in that scenario, the light tank is just constrained by the fact it has to be thrown out of a plane. It will use less fuel and be more susceptible from stuff like IEDs. The mgs also contends with being much taller because it's a death truck and height is the most important dimension in trying to reduce silhouette, so it's easier to spot.

[Austrasien]

I mean, you won't see SBCT and IBCT with tanks, will you?

The major reasons you would not want to integrate tanks with a motorized infantry unit are:
1. Tracked vehicles and wheeled vehicles tend to separate when marching or in combat; wheeled vehicles sustain a much higher pace during road marches while tracks are considerably faster off-road.
2. The number of tanks is often insufficient.

There is not a distinct niche for a "fire support vehicle" though especially not one which is uniquely suited for light tanks. Pretending wheeled tanks are not tanks is also naught but a word game.

[Kazarogkai]

Okay, so my MT-PMT country has much of its residential areas organized in a sort of communal Oglethorpe plan, with each housing block having all adults 25-55 who aren't criminals or severly disabled serving as a militia. This leads to about 20 militia members per block, with 4 blocks per ward. I am thinking of the standard weapon being based around the scout rifle concept, (a do-anything rifle following those parameters) perhaps semi-auto w/10-20 round mag, and firing a lighter, cartridge than the .308, with less recoil but still good enough for hunting. Any suggestions on this or organization?

Buy AK's.

Shotguns would also be pretty solid. Simple to train with, cheap to buy/produce, and very effective and useful for hunting and defense.

[Austrasien]

Okay, so my MT-PMT country has much of its residential areas organized in a sort of communal Oglethorpe plan, with each housing block having all adults 25-55 who aren't criminals or severly disabled serving as a militia. This leads to about 20 militia members per block, with 4 blocks per ward. I am thinking of the standard weapon being based around the scout rifle concept, (a do-anything rifle following those parameters) perhaps semi-auto w/10-20 round mag, and firing a lighter, cartridge than the .308, with less recoil but still good enough for hunting. Any suggestions on this or organization?

Need more explosives.

[Purpelia]

Buy AK's.

Shotguns would also be pretty solid. Simple to train with, cheap to buy/produce, and very effective and useful for hunting and defense.

Except they will be next to useless once his enemies come with rifles in hand. What he should do is have a small professional force backed by this conscript horde of his. That professional force maintains stockpiles of real weapons such as tanks, aircraft etc. And than just get every conscript an AK/AR and have them report to an armory for further equipment. A war can not be won with small arms alone, at least not in the modern day.

[Immoren]

Allotment system where people of street, or group of streets, choose single person from their amidst to be equipped and upkept up by allotment group as a soldier.

[Crookfur]

Okay, so my MT-PMT country has much of its residential areas organized in a sort of communal Oglethorpe plan, with each housing block having all adults 25-55 who aren't criminals or severly disabled serving as a militia. This leads to about 20 militia members per block, with 4 blocks per ward. I am thinking of the standard weapon being based around the scout rifle concept, (a do-anything rifle following those parameters) perhaps semi-auto w/10-20 round mag, and firing a lighter, cartridge than the .308, with less recoil but still good enough for hunting. Any suggestions on this or organization?

Just issue your service rifle or if you are super worried a semi auto only version with no bayonet lug(or whatever features your politicians think ebil child speaking assault weapon glocks have).
No real point in coming up with anything special.

[Theodosiya]

Then how to explain Mobile Gun System usage?

[Gallia-]

Okay, so my MT-PMT country has much of its residential areas organized in a sort of communal Oglethorpe plan, with each housing block having all adults 25-55 who aren't criminals or severly disabled serving as a militia. This leads to about 20 militia members per block, with 4 blocks per ward. I am thinking of the standard weapon being based around the scout rifle concept, (a do-anything rifle following those parameters) perhaps semi-auto w/10-20 round mag, and firing a lighter, cartridge than the .308, with less recoil but still good enough for hunting. Any suggestions on this or organization?

Every three men are trained in the use of the anti-tank guided weapon.

https://books.google.com/books?id=dlgok ... ne&f=false

[Republic of Penguinian Astronautia]

Okay, so my MT-PMT country has much of its residential areas organized in a sort of communal Oglethorpe plan, with each housing block having all adults 25-55 who aren't criminals or severly disabled serving as a militia. This leads to about 20 militia members per block, with 4 blocks per ward. I am thinking of the standard weapon being based around the scout rifle concept, (a do-anything rifle following those parameters) perhaps semi-auto w/10-20 round mag, and firing a lighter, cartridge than the .308, with less recoil but still good enough for hunting. Any suggestions on this or organization?

Need more explosives.

What would you recommend for that?

[Purpelia]

Need more explosives.

What would you recommend for that?

Rockets, bombs, grenades, tank cannon, artillery... And since this is PMT probably power armored troops wielding fully automatic rocket propelled grenade launchers.

[Gallia-]

Armed militia weren't useful when the most powerful weapon on the battlefield could be rendered inoperable with a damp rain.

Some nerds with a chemistry set and a bathtub of fingernail polish remover, on the other hand, have continually defeated the most powerful militaries in the world in all spheres: physically, morally, and politically.

An anti tank missile militia is probably too high IQ for any army to do right now (maybe "PMT" changes this?) but bomb making networks and TATP or mining explosives like Semtex are fine and dandy.

[Republic of Penguinian Astronautia]

Just FYI, this isn't my entire army, there is large and well trained professional force, this militia is there to supplement that, especially in frontier and border regions. That is why the weapon is supposed to be versatile, it needs to guard against dangerous wildlife. (The service rifle is basically a more advanced OICW type weapon, not really fit for these applications.)

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Just FYI, this isn't my entire army, there is large and well trained professional force, this militia is there to supplement that, especially in frontier and border regions. That is why the weapon is supposed to be versatile, it needs to guard against dangerous wildlife. (The service rifle is basically a more advanced OICW type weapon, not really fit for these applications.)

AKM.
Alternatively M14 in 6.5 mm Swedish or Arisaka.

[Gallia-]

Just FYI, this isn't my entire army, there is large and well trained professional force, this militia is there to supplement that, especially in frontier and border regions. That is why the weapon is supposed to be versatile, it needs to guard against dangerous wildlife. (The service rifle is basically a more advanced OICW type weapon, not really fit for these applications.)

Tanks are dangerous wildlife.

You need to bring dangerous weapons.

A gun isn't going to protect you against a mechanized infantry platoon, because the platoon will just kill you with the laser guided, FLIR sighted, stabilized, belt-fed, bulletproof machine gun/sniper rifle that are their "fighting vehicles". An few IEDs might kill a couple IFVs and the people inside, forcing the platoon to retire from that combat, though. Soldiers are also poorly trained and poorly equipped to hunt down bomb/rocket-making networks and can generally only react in retaliation by bombing firing sites and raiding one or two workshops a year. A gun is much easier to find because it cannot be disguised as a piece of plumbing equipment, a necessary component of automobile repair, or important agricultural products.

Insurgents didn't kick America out of Iraq with Mosin Nagants and random farmers shooting down Apache helicopters didn't stop the USA from taking over the land of the country.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Just FYI, this isn't my entire army, there is large and well trained professional force, this militia is there to supplement that, especially in frontier and border regions. That is why the weapon is supposed to be versatile, it needs to guard against dangerous wildlife. (The service rifle is basically a more advanced OICW type weapon, not really fit for these applications.)

AKM.
Alternatively M14 in 6.5 mm Swedish or Arisaka.

Alternatively like most second line forces... your previous service rifle.

[Purpelia]

Just FYI, this isn't my entire army, there is large and well trained professional force, this militia is there to supplement that, especially in frontier and border regions. That is why the weapon is supposed to be versatile, it needs to guard against dangerous wildlife. (The service rifle is basically a more advanced OICW type weapon, not really fit for these applications.)

If your troops routinely run into things that a burst of 5.56/5.45/7.62 can't put down you just need to train them to shoot again. A squad of infantry with modern rifles and hand grenades on hand is going to stop anything including an elephant.

[Austrasien]

What would you recommend for that?

Bomb-making cell.

[Kazarogkai]

Shotguns would also be pretty solid. Simple to train with, cheap to buy/produce, and very effective and useful for hunting and defense.

Except they will be next to useless once his enemies come with rifles in hand. What he should do is have a small professional force backed by this conscript horde of his. That professional force maintains stockpiles of real weapons such as tanks, aircraft etc. And than just get every conscript an AK/AR and have them report to an armory for further equipment. A war can not be won with small arms alone, at least not in the modern day.

His militia by all appearances considering his inspiration from the Oglethorpe plan is probably mostly an urban focused force hence shotguns are fine in such scenarios,; quite honestly that is the area where they excel the most if where to be honest. There is a reason why their quite loved by guerrilla's like Che for a reason. Their cheap, easy to train with, deadly against unarmored opponents, plus it's a lot easier to convince the entire population to have a shotgun in their home's than an assault rifle comparably assuming a rather western like society.

Also to add onto your next point a conscript militia for all intents and purposes is basically just a universal conscript system with extra flavor. The only big difference being militias tend to only be used for defense rather than external aggression in theory. Hence like any other conscript system it can generally be assumed his forces would maintain a small force of professional and semi-professional troops meant to function as a sorta skeleton force from which to build units for his army to form around so meh. Just saying.