Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:30 pm
Purpelia wrote:How often do soldiers die in accidents that happen from improper use of their own firearms, grenades and other gear?
Negligent Discharge is more common than you think.
Because sometimes even national leaders just want to hang out
https://forum.nationstates.net/
Purpelia wrote:How often do soldiers die in accidents that happen from improper use of their own firearms, grenades and other gear?
Purpelia wrote:How often do soldiers die in accidents that happen from improper use of their own firearms, grenades and other gear?
Fordorsia wrote:Better and cheaper than wearing glasses
Fordorsia wrote:Cosparia wrote:Especially with open-bolt submachine guns. Carrying a loaded mag in your MP-40 or Sten with the bolt forward was a good way to get shot by your own gun if you weren't careful.
You can't have an open bolt gun with a round in the chamber and the bolt forward. Open bolts are perfectly safe to carry around because they usually have practically indestructible safeties.
Fordorsia wrote:Cosparia wrote:Especially with open-bolt submachine guns. Carrying a loaded mag in your MP-40 or Sten with the bolt forward was a good way to get shot by your own gun if you weren't careful.
You can't have an open bolt gun with a round in the chamber and the bolt forward. Open bolts are perfectly safe to carry around because they usually have practically indestructible safeties.
Purpelia wrote:the gun instantly fires full auto until it runs dry.
And the bad part about it is that if the safety lever AKA the bolt handle gets caught on something and pulled out of alignment the gun instantly fires full auto until it runs dry.
Cosparia wrote:I was referring to the practice of closing the bolt on the empty chamber, then inserting the magazine. That way, all the soldier would need to do was just yank the bolt back and he's ready to send hate downrange. Of course, there were instances where soldiers (usually tank crewmen) did just that, and the charging handle would catch on something, pulling the bolt back just far enough to clear the magazine, but not far enough to catch the sear. Then when the handle was released, it would fly forward, strip a round from the mag, and BANG--something or someone would find a new hole in them.
Fordorsia wrote:Cosparia wrote:I was referring to the practice of closing the bolt on the empty chamber, then inserting the magazine. That way, all the soldier would need to do was just yank the bolt back and he's ready to send hate downrange. Of course, there were instances where soldiers (usually tank crewmen) did just that, and the charging handle would catch on something, pulling the bolt back just far enough to clear the magazine, but not far enough to catch the sear. Then when the handle was released, it would fly forward, strip a round from the mag, and BANG--something or someone would find a new hole in them.
Someone stupid enough to do that would manage to do the same with a closed bolt gun
Fordorsia wrote:Yeah because triggers doesn't real.
Purpelia wrote:Yes. The trigger is in fact NOT a factor in that situation because the bolt can be pulled back far enough to go past the magazine and pick up a round but yet not be far enough to catch on the trigger resulting in a catastrophic accident. That's what happens when your sear is behind the magazine and yet your gun fires on closing.
And the bad part about it is that if the safety lever AKA the bolt handle gets caught on something and pulled out of alignment the gun instantly fires full auto until it runs dry.
Fordorsia wrote:As I already explained, someone stupid enough to pull the bolt back halfway would manage to negligently discharge a closed bolt gun. But you're talking about two different things, or nothing, I don't know.
You're just describing one rare way someone would shoot an open bolt gun without wanting to, when that's not even the discussion. The discussion is over the safety, which when disengaged, the bolt is still stopped by the trigger. There's no shooting just because the safety is off, and there certainly isn't any full auto because, you know, the bolt would cycle back and get stopped by the trigger.
Purpelia wrote:The thing you do not seem to understand is that this is something that can happen by accident in all manner of situations that do not involve stupidity. This includes but is not limited to entering or exiting vehicles, the thing falling or snagging on something and just generally not constantly keeping your eye on it when doing stuff.
The discussion is, as sparked by me so I should bloody know what it's about, asking how many soldiers hurt or kill them self by firearms related mishaps. So this definitively counts.
Cosparia wrote:Mishaps happen more with open bolts because "dumb reason"
ford wrote:That's impossible and open bolt safeties are safe
purp wrote:No they're not you can accidentally hit them or whatever and it will make the gun go full auto or something
Fordorsia wrote:Why is someone carrying their gun around without the safety on? That's how negligent discharges happen, not from the bolt being pulled back halfway.
Fordorsia wrote:A notch in the receiver is more than adequate. The bolt handle isn't going anywhere with that spring pushing it forward into the notch unless you purposely remove it.And the bad part about it is that if the safety lever AKA the bolt handle gets caught on something and pulled out of alignment the gun instantly fires full auto until it runs dry.
Yeah because triggers doesn't real.
Fordorsia wrote:Purpelia wrote:Because he was being a ford and thought it'd be safer to close the bolt on an empty chamber, as you suggest.
No, what I suggest is pulling the bolt back and putting it on safe if you don't plan on using it anytime soon, like you're supposed to. I'd like to see reports of soldiers having their open bolt gun go off because of pulling the bolt back half way then letting go. Why do you think soldiers were trained to pull the bolt back before putting a magazine in?