Infantry Discussion Thread part 11: Gallas Razor edition.

[Purpelia]

Neupolska: it's fine as long as you are happy with ammo that's approx 20x more expensive per round than steel/lead cored stuff. The figure is off the top of my head so it could be better or worse than that and I'm sure someone else who has looked at the issue more recently could suggest a more accurate figure.

A quick internet search gives me 25.52 USD/kg for Wolfram where as lead, which I'd expect to be the filling of a standard FMJ is 0.51 USD/kg. So more like 50 times more than a standard bullet. No idea what the price of steel is sadly. So I can't say what the difference would be for a steel core.

[Allanea]

It would surely depend on the steel's quality?

A very simple Google search turned up $300 per metric ton, or, clearly, 30 cents per kilogram, which is why many countries use steel-cored ammunition.

[Purpelia]

It would surely depend on the steel's quality?

Strictly speaking it would depend on the particular steel in question as steel is not really a material but a category of materials that can be described as "Iron + Carbon within a certain percentage range + other stuff in very small quantities". And there is an idiotic amount of different combinations of that formula for different purposes out there. And I have no idea which steel would be used for a bullet core so I can't really say what the price of that particular steel would be. So your search is as good as any.

[Great New England Confederation]

I have a question regarding Sig rifles, everyone knows about the SG5520/552, which I do employ the latter for special forces and Airborne uses. But is the lesser known SG542 a rifle of similar quality? I have it being used in a standard issue role, and it seems at least aesthetically similar to the FN FAL. Should I be looking for a more modern firearm for standard issue or is it fine where it's at?

[Fordorsia]

This obviously wouldn't work.

Obviously would cause I'm perfect and so is the gun

[Great New England Confederation]

It would surely depend on the steel's quality?

Strictly speaking it would depend on the particular steel in question as steel is not really a material but a category of materials that can be described as "Iron + Carbon within a certain percentage range + other stuff in very small quantities". And there is an idiotic amount of different combinations of that formula for different purposes out there. And I have no idea which steel would be used for a bullet core so I can't really say what the price of that particular steel would be. So your search is as good as any.

It would likely be something on the cheaper side, considering you probably don't want to fire high quality, expensive steel for anti-personnel usage, and for anti-material maybe high quality steel

[Crookfur]

IIRC I got the 20x figure from comparing us gov prices for m855 ($0.25 per round) to m995 (about $5 per round).

But that was ages ago and I have no idea how the license from nammo would affect the m995 price.

I suspect the sheer expense of m995 is where the new 5.56mm ammo requirement is coming from.

[Purpelia]

I have a question regarding Sig rifles, everyone knows about the SG5520/552, which I do employ the latter for special forces and Airborne uses. But is the lesser known SG542 a rifle of similar quality? I have it being used in a standard issue role, and it seems at least aesthetically similar to the FN FAL. Should I be looking for a more modern firearm for standard issue or is it fine where it's at?

(Image)

Its Swiss therefore it's fantastic and perfect and the best gun ever. So don't think about it too much and just adopt.

It would likely be something on the cheaper side, considering you probably don't want to fire high quality, expensive steel for anti-personnel usage, and for anti-material maybe high quality steel

It does not actually matter that much because, barring a few extreme outlayers like what ever they use in structural components for space rockets all steel will be within the same ballpark price range anyway. Yes you'll have variations of cheap and expensive and like this one costs 1/10 of that one but in the end it's still going to be measured in dollars per ton as opposed to tens of dollars per kilogram for stuff like Wolfram. So I was just being deliberately and needlessly pedantic.

[Crookfur]

I have a question regarding Sig rifles, everyone knows about the SG5520/552, which I do employ the latter for special forces and Airborne uses. But is the lesser known SG542 a rifle of similar quality? I have it being used in a standard issue role, and it seems at least aesthetically similar to the FN FAL. Should I be looking for a more modern firearm for standard issue or is it fine where it's at?

(Image)

Are you buying in the 70s/early 80s?
If yes then use the 540 series
Do you need big manly 7.62mm in your rifle
If yes then 542 it is.
However if you are buying in 1990 or later just go full 550 series and honestly if you have the 540 series there isn't much point in having the 550 series for anyone as the 540 series can do all of the mods and your special forces will only be wanting mp5s and ARs anyway...

[Rhodesialund]

Steel bullets don't an appreciable effect on barrel life.

Wrong.

[Puzikas]

This obviously wouldn't work.

Obviously would cause I'm perfect and so is the gun

I already told you it wouldn't.

[Fordorsia]

Though he meant the gun itself

Either way, just did it cause I felt like it and I won't be kept down by the patriarchy

[Laritaia]

Laritaia does not posses an Airforce

Instead both the Navy and the Army have their own distinct sub-divisions responsible for aircraft, however I've increasingly been considering moving the Paratroops from the jurisdiction of the Army proper to being the ground combat element of the Army Air Corps.

i need someone to tell me how this is a bad idea.

[Vassenor]

Laritaia does not posses an Airforce

Instead both the Navy and the Army have their own distinct sub-divisions responsible for aircraft, however I've increasingly been considering moving the Paratroops from the jurisdiction of the Army proper to being the ground combat element of the Army Air Corps.

i need someone to tell me how this is a bad idea.

So basically how the US did it in WW2 with a side order of VDV and Fallschrimjager.

[NeuPolska]

I have a question regarding Sig rifles, everyone knows about the SG5520/552, which I do employ the latter for special forces and Airborne uses. But is the lesser known SG542 a rifle of similar quality? I have it being used in a standard issue role, and it seems at least aesthetically similar to the FN FAL. Should I be looking for a more modern firearm for standard issue or is it fine where it's at?

(Image)

Excuse me sir this is pornography

Also, you guys are arguing about steel cores, is it not better to use tungsten? I mean there is this article

[Puzikas]

I have a question regarding Sig rifles, everyone knows about the SG5520/552, which I do employ the latter for special forces and Airborne uses. But is the lesser known SG542 a rifle of similar quality? I have it being used in a standard issue role, and it seems at least aesthetically similar to the FN FAL. Should I be looking for a more modern firearm for standard issue or is it fine where it's at?

(Image)

They are excellent rifles.

[Fordorsia]

chop chop



that is all

[The Akasha Colony]

Also, you guys are arguing about steel cores, is it not better to use tungsten? I mean there is this article

The article itself illustrates one of the major problems: working with tungsten is very difficult and requires more specialized tooling that is not as amenable to mass production as existing steel-working technologies. Having to machine each core in a lathe using a diamond tip is far more expensive and time consuming than more boring conventional techniques of casting, swaging, or stamping.

And this is before considering the material costs. Which are not prohibitive on their own, but combined with the machining costs make a very persuasive argument in favor of more limited tungsten use. Which is why it isn't done IRL. At least, not yet.

[Khornatenreich]

Found a MAdsen vid, kinda fun:

https://youtu.be/8eWAJ_cBs2Y

[Sevvania]

The United States Marine Corps tested the usefulness of commercial off-the-shelf skateboards during urban combat military exercises in the late 1990s in a program called Urban Warrior '99. Their special purpose was "for maneuvering inside buildings in order to detect tripwires and sniper fire".

- Wikipedia

I need to know more.

[Gallia-]

https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/p ... 8.appj.pdf

[Sevvania]

https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/conf_proceedings/CF148/CF148.appj.pdf

But where is the skateboard page >:

[NeuPolska]

Also, you guys are arguing about steel cores, is it not better to use tungsten? I mean there is this article

The article itself illustrates one of the major problems: working with tungsten is very difficult and requires more specialized tooling that is not as amenable to mass production as existing steel-working technologies. Having to machine each core in a lathe using a diamond tip is far more expensive and time consuming than more boring conventional techniques of casting, swaging, or stamping.

And this is before considering the material costs. Which are not prohibitive on their own, but combined with the machining costs make a very persuasive argument in favor of more limited tungsten use. Which is why it isn't done IRL. At least, not yet.

Do steel cores still give me enough penetration to beat the average infantryman's armor?

[Gallia-]

The average infantryman has no armor, so yes!

[NeuPolska]

The average infantryman has no armor, so yes!

Ok how about the smart infantryman that actually wears his armor, ceramic plates and all?