Infantry Discussion Thread part 11: Gallas Razor edition.

[The Akasha Colony]

What are the benefits to having a large amount of suppressor? A less noisy battlefield?

It makes it somewhat harder for enemy troops to accurately figure out your position by sound or flash and helps deal with the sticky issue of hearing loss among combat troops. In theory troops are supposed to be wearing ear protection but the problem is that wearing it makes it hard to hear orders and to communicate, which means that a lot of troops don't wear it. Nowadays there are some fancy digital ear protection systems that can screen out noise like gunshots while still allowing human voices through but these are expensive and add to the soldier's electrical consumption. A suppressor is cheaper and can bring noise down to more acceptable levels, but requires regular cleaning.

[Crookfur]

What are the benefits to having a large amount of suppressor? A less noisy battlefield?

Persceived benefits from the USMC trails so far:

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017 ... ssors.html

[Allanea]

What are the benefits to having a large amount of suppressor? A less noisy battlefield?

It makes it somewhat harder for enemy troops to accurately figure out your position by sound or flash and helps deal with the sticky issue of hearing loss among combat troops. In theory troops are supposed to be wearing ear protection but the problem is that wearing it makes it hard to hear orders and to communicate, which means that a lot of troops don't wear it. Nowadays there are some fancy digital ear protection systems that can screen out noise like gunshots while still allowing human voices through but these are expensive and add to the soldier's electrical consumption. A suppressor is cheaper and can bring noise down to more acceptable levels, but requires regular cleaning.

Beyond what Akasha said, noise doesn't just enter a person's body (nor even his ears) via the ear canal. Making the original sound of the noise (the gun, in this case) slightly less noisy is better, in terms of preserving the soldier's health, than putting ear protection on him. Because the US government (and most other militaries) is legally on the hook for any medical costs incurred by the soldier even after their service, reducing hearing damage is actually a serious saving.

Hearing damage is not only a contributor to a loss of productivity in the work place, but it also a contributor to a variety of physical ailments and injuries throughout a person's later life, including mental health issues (tinnitus causes people immense suffering). For this reason trying to reduce, where possible, the noise produced by the one piece of equipment closest to the soldier throughout his service, makes brilliant sense.

That's, of course, if it actually works.

[Gallia-]

Health reasons probably don't make the top five outside of the Heer TBF.

[Taihei Tengoku]

What are the benefits to having a large amount of suppressor? A less noisy battlefield?

Persceived benefits from the USMC trails so far:

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017 ... ssors.html

"Not having to scream at the top of your lungs" is reason #1. Screaming is tiring and you're screwed if your voice breaks. If you rely on radios for intra-squad comms you're SOL when you get jammed.

[Gallia-]

The USA would just surrender the second the radios break anyway.

I wonder how a silencer reacts with a gunshot locator or muzzle flash detector. Signature management is probably in the top three reasons of why you'd put silencers on every heater, because the Russians are going to have things like Boomerang and PILAR in the future, if they don't already. Not being blown up by a grenade launcher the second you start shooting is great, possibly better than not having to undergo surgery to remove vocal cord polyps.

[Austrasien]

Noise on modern battlefields is what black powder smoke was on the battlefields of the Napoleonic wars.

Once it starts being reduced for real everyone will remember how great it is to actually hear again.

[Fordorsia]

Noise on modern battlefields is what black powder smoke was on the battlefields of the Napoleonic wars.

Once it starts being reduced for real everyone will remember how great it is to actually hear again.

At least modern soldiers don't have the luxury of several guys behind them shooting their guns literally right next to/above their heads. I hear smoke and embers are good for the skin.

[Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502]

How difficult is it to make a suppressor for a weapon? I'm sure handguns are simple enough, but getting up to rifles and even cal. 50s has got to be quite the challenge.

A danger I'd be worried about is how fragile a suppressor is. I'm sure they aren't made of tissue paper, but how easily can a suppressor be bent or broken? What if a soldier dives into a foxhole and their suppressor digs into the dirt or a rock? Will they be shooting sideways, Krummlauf-style until the suppressor literally explodes?

[Taihei Tengoku]

A bent suppressor will explode on the first shot, but modern cans aren't that fragile.

Rifle suppressors are not that large (about 5" length, maybe 1" diameter?) and integral suppression would move the suppressor over the barrel rather than along the length of the firearm.

[The Akasha Colony]

How difficult is it to make a suppressor for a weapon? I'm sure handguns are simple enough, but getting up to rifles and even cal. 50s has got to be quite the challenge.

A danger I'd be worried about is how fragile a suppressor is. I'm sure they aren't made of tissue paper, but how easily can a suppressor be bent or broken? What if a soldier dives into a foxhole and their suppressor digs into the dirt or a rock? Will they be shooting sideways, Krummlauf-style until the suppressor literally explodes?

It's not particularly difficult. A suppressor is basically just a steel tube with some steel baffles inside, to catch and disperse the muzzle blast from firing rather than letting it dissipate in the environment. The trouble isn't so much the caliber as it is dealing with high volumes of fire because the suppressor heats up extremely quickly due to catching all of that hot exhaust gas.

As a result of their simple design, they're generally fairly durable because they're just steel tubes. Anything that damages a suppressor would damage a regular gun barrel anyway, and a modern carbine with a suppressor is about the same length of a conventional rifle with a 20" barrel.

[Arkandros]

Given that the military is perpetually good at penny pinching, how would integral suppressors be retrofitted onto old rifles? Would they just drill ports into existing barrels, cut a backseat for the can, and call it good, or would it require a whole new barrel?

[Free-Don]

34.50 buckaroos

for when you're willing to risk general safety in exchange for ear safety.

[Crookfur]

Given that the military is perpetually good at penny pinching, how would integral suppressors be retrofitted onto old rifles? Would they just drill ports into existing barrels, cut a backseat for the can, and call it good, or would it require a whole new barrel?

They are buying and fitting new barrels on a fairly regular schedule so they would likely just roll them out through the regular process. High priority units would get the suppressor barrels first and likely trade in thier existing stock of spare barrels which will likely get dumped on lower priority units.

Eventually the existing stock of barrels, if not consumed quickly enough, could be dumped on the surplus market or even just recycled.

[Puzikas]

A bent suppressor will explode on the first shot, but modern cans aren't that fragile.

Rifle suppressors are not that large (about 5" length, maybe 1" diameter?) and integral suppression would move the suppressor over the barrel rather than along the length of the firearm.

Theres normally a bit larger than 1". 1-1/8" to 1-1/2".
Some are as large as 2" for 5.56.

. A suppressor is basically just a steel tube with some steel baffles inside

Most suppressor baffles are actually made of titanium, aluminum and things like inconel.
Cheaper suppressors do have stainless tho.

[Fordorsia]

The best way to silence a weapon is to drop it off at one of your local surrender bins #SafeStreets

[Rhodesialund]

34.50 buckaroos

for when you're willing to risk general safety in exchange for ear safety.

If you actually valued being able to see down the irons/optics...

[Austrasien]

Improvised suppressors would be useless. They will heat up and burst, they are absolutely not useful for firing in volume.

[Allanea]

The cost of even the most expensive suppressors is essentially negligible in context of the cost of US military training. Evenif they cost $1500 a reduction of casualties and injuries saves money and resources.

[Rhodesialund]

Improvised suppressors would be useless. They will heat up and burst, they are absolutely not useful for firing in volume.

Not exactly useless, especially if you were a partisan fighting behind enemy lines or some sort of terrorist organization.

[Puzikas]

Sound suppressors prices are artificially inflated by ATF cost, licencing and legal hurtles required to produce them

An exceptionally high-quality sound suppressor realistically costs like $300-600 to produce probably, but part of that cost on the civilian market is cost of labor, markup, low volume production, and the ATFs cut.

If sound suppressors were de-regulated (not to be political) in the US, their costs would drop pretty significantly and you could get a more accurate assessment of cost.

[Free-Don]

Improvised suppressors would be useless. They will heat up and burst, they are absolutely not useful for firing in volume.

I've set up the majority of my military as a militia/provincial guard/partisan groups/national guard that mainly work with police/emergency services and some military support, I call them Light Rifles.

Their duties are mainly: border defense, natural disasters, police assistance, protection of important facilities, giving teens and young adult something to do/build up the youth, give the old folks hobbies and job oppurtunities, etc.

If I was going to make homemade fuel can suppressors some type of standard it would probably be a page in a rifle manual with maybe a thread adapter, cleaning brush, and somewhat uncessary takedown tool taped to the back of the manual. Total invest for my nation in this would be pennies and dimes when compared to just shooting in general.

It would be mostly used for extra hearing protection when doing: range shooting, live fire drills, and field craft/sneaky training stuff.


Moving on the discussion about hearing protection previously touched on.

Currently people are switching to electronic ear protection because it' protective and allows for the user to hear the environment better/just as well.
I've been using something like these for a while with the limited amount of shooting I do. Except mine are suspossed to be 32 db and were 5 US Buckaroos cheaper. Would these things be suitable for a fairly corrupt and somewhat industrial nation? (Think Philippines or current Ukraine)

[Gallia-]

Given that the military is perpetually good at penny pinching, how would integral suppressors be retrofitted onto old rifles? Would they just drill ports into existing barrels, cut a backseat for the can, and call it good, or would it require a whole new barrel?

They are buying and fitting new barrels on a fairly regular schedule so they would likely just roll them out through the regular process. High priority units would get the suppressor barrels first and likely trade in thier existing stock of spare barrels which will likely get dumped on lower priority units.

Eventually the existing stock of barrels, if not consumed quickly enough, could be dumped on the surplus market or even just recycled.

Is it possible for something like M16 (or G11) to an integral suppressor? Or a flechette firing M16? Because I really want to be able to convert Galla's M16A1s to something LUDICROUS like a integrally suppressed flechette rifle. And G11 for a silenced hyperburst. I ask because all integrally suppressed weapons I've seen tend to be bespoke and I'm not sure what kind of rebuilding would be necessary accommodate an integral suppressor on an M16 or a G11-type weapon.

Sound suppressors prices are artificially inflated by ATF cost, licencing and legal hurtles required to produce them

An exceptionally high-quality sound suppressor realistically costs like $300-600 to produce probably, but part of that cost on the civilian market is cost of labor, markup, low volume production, and the ATFs cut.

If sound suppressors were de-regulated (not to be political) in the US, their costs would drop pretty significantly and you could get a more accurate assessment of cost.

So maybe $100 in reality? Or cheaper?

What about integral suppression? Would it be possible to suppress a flechette firing rifle since these have massive reports and whatnot, so I think it would be the first place that it would appear in Galla's military, with a slow diffusion down to conventional rifles like G11/M16 and M231/MARS submachine guns. I'm mostly concerned with 1) the gas system needing to be moved around a lot; 2) potential rebuilding of the whole fore end. The latter is more important for G11 than M16, while the former might be equally important for either.

I guess for mid 2020s Galla you'd start seeing the introduction of integrally suppressed flechette firing rifles and hyperbursts en masse.

Main thing is that I want to keep the triangle handguards because Galla is still against the idea of giving troops the ability to modify their god-given armaments and that seems to be mandatory with an integral silencer as it does with a QD one since they both build up big heat.

[Gallia-]

(Mathematical economics was viewed with especial disfavor during the Stalinist era, and one of its proponents, Nikolai Voznesensky, was not only fired but fired upon.)

Weird though. Because the USSR masturbated to mathematics everywhere else. I guess that's the real difference between Galla and USSR. There's no cognitive dissonance between Lenin's masturbation to mathematics in either the economic or military spheres. Building the future with slide rules and supercomputers, to the stars, forever. Galla the Bravest civilization? Possibly.

[Theodosiya]

So, yesterday I had an airsoft skirmish...

There's a M16. Tried to lift it. Turns out longer than I expect. And I'm 170ish.

Btw, is there any complete USMC gear list, and with prices?