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Infantry Discussion Thread part 11: Gallas Razor edition.

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Pentaga Giudici
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Founded: Feb 13, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Pentaga Giudici » Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:18 pm

Do the people here know enough about pistols with rotating barrels?

>In before someone tells me they are terrible because of the Colt Offensive Handgun

Are there any downsides to having a comp and then having a suppressor install over a comp?

I know that multiple handguns meant to fire +P or +P+ ammo have rotating barrels, but why did the German Volkpistol have a rotating barrel? Does it make the handgun simpler?
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Husseinarti
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Founded: Mar 20, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Husseinarti » Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:57 pm

Image

coy
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Manokan Republic
Minister
 
Posts: 2420
Founded: Dec 15, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Manokan Republic » Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:18 am

Pentaga Giudici wrote:Do the people here know enough about pistols with rotating barrels?

>In before someone tells me they are terrible because of the Colt Offensive Handgun

Are there any downsides to having a comp and then having a suppressor install over a comp?

I know that multiple handguns meant to fire +P or +P+ ammo have rotating barrels, but why did the German Volkpistol have a rotating barrel? Does it make the handgun simpler?

The main issue is weight and cost, barrels are heavy and expensive. The other issue is that the design is simpler with one barrel, to have one barrel which a bolt interacts with. A slide locking gun would be too ridiculous with multiple barrels, and not really provide any kind of obvious advantage. The only guns which benefit from multiple barrels also have multiple operating systems, such as double barrel shotguns, two semiautomatic guns side by side, a minigun and so on. You can't get away with just a different barrel, you need a different operating system and bolt too, so this doesn't offer any kind of obvious advantage.

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Gallia-
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Founded: Oct 09, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gallia- » Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:31 am

Pentaga Giudici wrote:Do the people here know enough about pistols with rotating barrels?

>In before someone tells me they are terrible because of the Colt Offensive Handgun

Are there any downsides to having a comp and then having a suppressor install over a comp?

I know that multiple handguns meant to fire +P or +P+ ammo have rotating barrels, but why did the German Volkpistol have a rotating barrel? Does it make the handgun simpler?


A silencer and a compensator do the opposite of each other.

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Triplebaconation
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Founded: Feb 22, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Triplebaconation » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:26 am

You can combine them.

Rotating barrels are fine.
Proverbs 23:9.

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Crookfur
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Crookfur » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:23 am

Manokan Republic wrote:
Pentaga Giudici wrote:Do the people here know enough about pistols with rotating barrels?

>In before someone tells me they are terrible because of the Colt Offensive Handgun

Are there any downsides to having a comp and then having a suppressor install over a comp?

I know that multiple handguns meant to fire +P or +P+ ammo have rotating barrels, but why did the German Volkpistol have a rotating barrel? Does it make the handgun simpler?

The main issue is weight and cost, barrels are heavy and expensive. The other issue is that the design is simpler with one barrel, to have one barrel which a bolt interacts with. A slide locking gun would be too ridiculous with multiple barrels, and not really provide any kind of obvious advantage. The only guns which benefit from multiple barrels also have multiple operating systems, such as double barrel shotguns, two semiautomatic guns side by side, a minigun and so on. You can't get away with just a different barrel, you need a different operating system and bolt too, so this doesn't offer any kind of obvious advantage.

He means a pistol where the action is locked by the barrel itself rotating, ala beretta cougar and GSh-18, rather than a rotary barrel system.

PG:
As said they work and as for the various volkspistole projects I suspect that it was tried as such a system can be made with relatively few parts for a locked breach action and of those parts there are less that need to be machined. IIRC the volkpistole projects that actually got contracts ended up just being some sort of blowback.
Again as has been said a suppressor that slips onto a QD mount that includes a compensator (or other muzzle device like a brake) should work fine.
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Manokan Republic
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Founded: Dec 15, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Manokan Republic » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:56 am

Crookfur wrote:
Manokan Republic wrote:The main issue is weight and cost, barrels are heavy and expensive. The other issue is that the design is simpler with one barrel, to have one barrel which a bolt interacts with. A slide locking gun would be too ridiculous with multiple barrels, and not really provide any kind of obvious advantage. The only guns which benefit from multiple barrels also have multiple operating systems, such as double barrel shotguns, two semiautomatic guns side by side, a minigun and so on. You can't get away with just a different barrel, you need a different operating system and bolt too, so this doesn't offer any kind of obvious advantage.

He means a pistol where the action is locked by the barrel itself rotating, ala beretta cougar and GSh-18, rather than a rotary barrel system.

PG:
As said they work and as for the various volkspistole projects I suspect that it was tried as such a system can be made with relatively few parts for a locked breach action and of those parts there are less that need to be machined. IIRC the volkpistole projects that actually got contracts ended up just being some sort of blowback.
Again as has been said a suppressor that slips onto a QD mount that includes a compensator (or other muzzle device like a brake) should work fine.

Ahh! Well then I guess there's nothing wrong with it then, the GHS-18 is great. It's more complex of an action than a blowback, but otherwise there's no reason why it would fail. It's not all that different from a rotating bolt, which reduces how forceful the blowback action is, which is why many guns have rotating bolts. In theory it can reduce the mass needed for the gun and the felt recoil, and with the barrel not moving up and down or laterally as much, it can be more accurate, although with a semiautomatic handgun at close range it's not that much of an improvement.
Last edited by Manokan Republic on Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:06 am, edited 2 times in total.

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New Visayan Islands
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Postby New Visayan Islands » Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:21 am

Hypothetically, would it be feasible to mount an anti-materiel rifle on a pintle mount of say, a Humvee? The idea crossed my mind when I was building up a worksheet that contained the TO&E of a Visayan Infantry Brigade.
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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:28 am

New Visayan Islands wrote:Hypothetically, would it be feasible to mount an anti-materiel rifle on a pintle mount of say, a Humvee? The idea crossed my mind when I was building up a worksheet that contained the TO&E of a Visayan Infantry Brigade.

But warum? A KPVT or M2HB fires the same exact ammo as a modern anti-materiel rifle.

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Champagne Socialist Sharifistan
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Postby Champagne Socialist Sharifistan » Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:49 am

Do 17 year old males make bad infantrymen?
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The Manticoran Empire
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Postby The Manticoran Empire » Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:37 am

Champagne Socialist Sharifistan wrote:Do 17 year old males make bad infantrymen?

Not particularly. Why do you ask?
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Champagne Socialist Sharifistan
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Postby Champagne Socialist Sharifistan » Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:39 am

The Manticoran Empire wrote:
Champagne Socialist Sharifistan wrote:Do 17 year old males make bad infantrymen?

Not particularly. Why do you ask?

Ages for active service. Thanks for answering.
A nation which partly represents my views.
Founder of the Traditionalist Military Alliance:https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=493756
The Turkish War of Independence and everything before along with 2014 modernisation are set in stone.
Everything else is subject to change

Black Lives Matter!

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The Manticoran Empire
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Anarchy

Postby The Manticoran Empire » Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:46 am

Champagne Socialist Sharifistan wrote:
The Manticoran Empire wrote:Not particularly. Why do you ask?

Ages for active service. Thanks for answering.

I'd argue that you start military service at 20. 17 year olds are better served finishing their education.
For: Israel, Palestine, Kurdistan, American Nationalism, American citizens of Guam, American Samoa, Puerto Rico, Northern Mariana Islands, and US Virgin Islands receiving a congressional vote and being allowed to vote for president, military, veterans before refugees, guns, pro choice, LGBT marriage, plural marriage, US Constitution, World Peace, Global Unity.

Against: Communism, Socialism, Fascism, Liberalism, Theocracy, Corporatocracy.


By the Blood of our Fathers, By the Blood of our Sons, we fight, we die, we sacrifice for the Good of the Empire.

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Champagne Socialist Sharifistan
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Postby Champagne Socialist Sharifistan » Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:50 am

The Manticoran Empire wrote:
Champagne Socialist Sharifistan wrote:Ages for active service. Thanks for answering.

I'd argue that you start military service at 20. 17 year olds are better served finishing their education.

Maybe but Sharifistan is an agricultural society set in 2021 (In 2020 it was an industrial society and a petrostate but war destroyed much of that). They don't need much schooling to guard crops and cattle from thieves and if they graduate high school and get NCO status then after leaving they can supervise the farm-workers.
Last edited by Champagne Socialist Sharifistan on Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
A nation which partly represents my views.
Founder of the Traditionalist Military Alliance:https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=493756
The Turkish War of Independence and everything before along with 2014 modernisation are set in stone.
Everything else is subject to change

Black Lives Matter!

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Crookfur
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Postby Crookfur » Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:01 am

New Visayan Islands wrote:Hypothetically, would it be feasible to mount an anti-materiel rifle on a pintle mount of say, a Humvee? The idea crossed my mind when I was building up a worksheet that contained the TO&E of a Visayan Infantry Brigade.

It's been done with stuff all the way up to the NTE-20 and truvelo 20x110mm rifles.

But outside of specialist applications like EOD why, as already asked, bother? As you can also fit a HMG, AGL or light cannon on the same mount?
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New Visayan Islands
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Postby New Visayan Islands » Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:03 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
New Visayan Islands wrote:Hypothetically, would it be feasible to mount an anti-materiel rifle on a pintle mount of say, a Humvee? The idea crossed my mind when I was building up a worksheet that contained the TO&E of a Visayan Infantry Brigade.

But warum? A KPVT or M2HB fires the same exact ammo as a modern anti-materiel rifle.

Crookfur wrote:
New Visayan Islands wrote:Hypothetically, would it be feasible to mount an anti-materiel rifle on a pintle mount of say, a Humvee? The idea crossed my mind when I was building up a worksheet that contained the TO&E of a Visayan Infantry Brigade.

It's been done with stuff all the way up to the NTE-20 and truvelo 20x110mm rifles.

But outside of specialist applications like EOD why, as already asked, bother? As you can also fit a HMG, AGL or light cannon on the same mount?

Vehicle assigned to the sniper squad of an infantry battalion's scout platoon, which apparently belongs to the battalion HQ/HQ Company if I'm reading the 2012 version of FKSM right.
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Triplebaconation
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Postby Triplebaconation » Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:43 am

It'd just have a machine gun or something on it.
Proverbs 23:9.

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Puzikas
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Puzikas » Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:41 pm

I mean if you're a scout platoon and you want to like, snipe a radio station or a RADAR or anything I guess but generally yea you're better set mounting an AGL or an M2 or DShK or a KPV?

Or like a 20mm cannon if you don't mind having manuver space issues.

The US made some low recoil 30mm abomination whos name dtn will inevitably post shortly that was for the humvee. It didn't go anywhere. An jnherit problem of cannons of things like light tactical vehicles is always ammunition volume. Iirc you can fit like 600 rounds of 12.7x99mm in the same space as like 200 rounds of 20x110HS plus the size and mass of the gun.
Really there's a limited spectrum of threats a 20mm can deal with that a 12.7 cannot, and most of those can be solved with two 12.7s, especially if they're firing the Gucci brand SLAP or Mk. 36042069 or whatever with it's SAPHE payload.

14.5x114 suffers a similar issue of being fucking huge and for like 600 rounds of 12.7x108 you can only have like 400 14.5x114. you do get a gun that sounds absolutely badass and can handle anything short of a heavy IFV or MBT I guess, but honestly not super worth it on something like a HMMWV or a Vodnik or whatever your flavor of the week trucc is.
Last edited by Puzikas on Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Gallia-
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Postby Gallia- » Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:43 pm

ASP-30.

It means Automatic Self Powered IIRC but his only military consideration by DOD was for airfield defense against BMD in lieu of the Mk 19/.50 cal combo used by USAF SFs.
Last edited by Gallia- on Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Santheres
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Postby Santheres » Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:45 pm

Quick note that the same directions given here will apply to this thread as well.

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Triplebaconation
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Triplebaconation » Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:07 pm

Puzikas wrote:I mean if you're a scout platoon and you want to like, snipe a radio station or a RADAR or anything I guess but generally yea you're better set mounting an AGL or an M2 or DShK or a KPV?

Or like a 20mm cannon if you don't mind having manuver space issues.

The US made some low recoil 30mm abomination whos name dtn will inevitably post shortly that was for the humvee. It didn't go anywhere. An jnherit problem of cannons of things like light tactical vehicles is always ammunition volume. Iirc you can fit like 600 rounds of 12.7x99mm in the same space as like 200 rounds of 20x110HS plus the size and mass of the gun.
Really there's a limited spectrum of threats a 20mm can deal with that a 12.7 cannot, and most of those can be solved with two 12.7s, especially if they're firing the Gucci brand SLAP or Mk. 36042069 or whatever with it's SAPHE payload.

14.5x114 suffers a similar issue of being fucking huge and for like 600 rounds of 12.7x108 you can only have like 400 14.5x114. you do get a gun that sounds absolutely badass and can handle anything short of a heavy IFV or MBT I guess, but honestly not super worth it on something like a HMMWV or a Vodnik or whatever your flavor of the week trucc is.


Too complicated for me. Snipers are really a substitute for mounted mgs/cannons in places where truccs can't go. A sniper truck is just the worst of both worlds.
Proverbs 23:9.

Things are a bit larger than you appear to think, my friend.

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Puzikas
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Puzikas » Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:40 pm

Sniper trucc is cursed and sounds like a Red Alert unit or smthn

I agree with you ofc
Gallia- wrote:ASP-30.

It means Automatic Self Powered IIRC but his only military consideration by DOD was for airfield defense against BMD in lieu of the Mk 19/.50 cal combo used by USAF SFs.

Lmao ASP like ASP-Y
Just like all of US weapons development of doesn't understand social cues and needs supervision from specialized care givers

BMD 2 strunk
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Cisairse
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Postby Cisairse » Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:20 pm

Is it conceivable that in a total war you will have more manpower casualties than rifle casualties
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Austrasien
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Austrasien » Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:47 pm

Cisairse wrote:Is it conceivable that in a total war you will have more manpower casualties than rifle casualties


yeah that is normal
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