Infantry Discussion Thread part 11: Gallas Razor edition.

[Cisairse]

Yeah, a shortened bullpup PKM sounds like a good weapon of choice, and it's widely enough used and easily convertible enough to other calibers to make it a solid choice. The 8mm uses very similiar belt links as the 7.62mm NATO which copied the belt links and feed tray in the M60 and M240, so it should be convertible to 8mm without much issue as it was easily converted to the 7.62mm NATO. Now you can reasonably clear rooms with it or the back-up carbine. Seems legit to me

A bullpup machinegun sounds like a nightmare to reload. I mean, can you imagine having to fiddle with a belt feed on a gun where the belt has to drape over your arm on one side and fall close to your chest on the other?

The belt bag is still in front of the grip/trigger, just the actual action is behind it.

[Purpelia]

A bullpup machinegun sounds like a nightmare to reload. I mean, can you imagine having to fiddle with a belt feed on a gun where the belt has to drape over your arm on one side and fall close to your chest on the other?

The belt bag is still in front of the grip/trigger, just the actual action is behind it.

That sounds even worse. You now have a twisting belt running down the side of your gun.

[Cisairse]

The belt bag is still in front of the grip/trigger, just the actual action is behind it.

That sounds even worse. You now have a twisting belt running down the side of your gun.

Wait, I'm confused, why would it be twisting

[Purpelia]

That sounds even worse. You now have a twisting belt running down the side of your gun.

Wait, I'm confused, why would it be twisting

You do not see the curvature on that belt on that image? Now imagine if it was an actual bullpup with the action BEHIND the trigger as opposed to above it. That would easily add another times as much space for the belt to travel rearward leading to that free travel having more acute angles at both the feed and box end and more room to twist, get caught or generally just jam up from turning.

[Cisairse]

Wait, I'm confused, why would it be twisting

You do not see the curvature on that belt on that image? Now imagine if it was an actual bullpup with the action BEHIND the trigger as opposed to above it.

Yeah that sounds awkward, the system I'm imagining looks pretty much identical to that picture though. So as long as you watch your face you should be fine I think

[Manokan Republic]

Yeah, a shortened bullpup PKM sounds like a good weapon of choice, and it's widely enough used and easily convertible enough to other calibers to make it a solid choice. The 8mm uses very similiar belt links as the 7.62mm NATO which copied the belt links and feed tray in the M60 and M240, so it should be convertible to 8mm without much issue as it was easily converted to the 7.62mm NATO. Now you can reasonably clear rooms with it or the back-up carbine. Seems legit to me

A bullpup machinegun sounds like a nightmare to reload. I mean, can you imagine having to fiddle with a belt feed on a gun where the belt has to drape over your arm on one side and fall close to your chest on the other?

Seriously, just clear rooms the normal way by throwing hand grenades through each door after shooting the whole building up from the outside with your IFV.

Yeah you can't just murder civilians in an area and destroy property at will, there is a moral need to slowly and carefully clean out buildings for what basically amounts to police work, and you also have issues with close quarters combat in general when dealing with such a large gun.

A bullpup machine gun is not really all that hard to carry or reload, and there's a few examples, the best being the PKM machine gun, the second being the M60, although it's large enough to not really have the same problem people think of. It's easier to reload a bullpup machine gun in some ways, because you can reasonably hold it with one hand. The weight is rearwards, and the hand is forwards, so you can effectively hold it with one hand while you reload it with the other.

Another thing to bear in mind is that many machine guns lack a stock, such guns mounted on tripods, that were loaded further back, and this wasn't really an issue. The stoner 63 was frequently carried without a stock, and it was fairly easy to reload. With a backpack fed machine gun, you don't need to reload really at all, and many bullpup PKM's use a backpack feeding system. People always say bullpups are hard to reload, but then when you go to do it in person, it's super easy. I generally really don't accept this criticism as doing it in real life usually alleviates the concern.

[Gallia-]

A bullpup machinegun sounds like a nightmare to reload. I mean, can you imagine having to fiddle with a belt feed on a gun where the belt has to drape over your arm on one side and fall close to your chest on the other?

Seriously, just clear rooms the normal way by throwing hand grenades through each door after shooting the whole building up from the outside with your IFV.

Yeah you can't just murder civilians in an area and destroy property at will,

why not?

Room Clearance

A searching team (two-man minimum) is assigned to clear one or more rooms. When entering a room avoid using door handles. Knock the door open with automatic-fire and throw a handgrenade into the room. After detonation, one man quickly enters, sprays the room with automatic fire, and takes up a position where he can observe the entire room. At this time, a second man enters and conducts a systematic search.

Avoid clearing each room in a repetitive manner. For example, as shown, rooms 1 and 5 were cleared as previously described. Rooms 2 and 3 were cleared by blasting a hole through the wall, throwing in a grenade, entering the room, and conducting a search, as previously described.

Figure G-8a Shoot Door Open

Figure G-8b Toss Grenade

Figure G-8c Enter Firing and Search Room

Figure G-9a Vary Techniques of Clearing Room

In room 7, an enemy "mousehole" between rooms 6 and 7 was discovered behind a sofa. A grenade was thrown in the mousehole; room 6 was then entered through the door and searched. Room 4 was entered by firing through the door, throwing grenade, and then searching. As rooms are cleared, doors are left open, and a predetermined mark (chalk, tape, aerosol spray) is placed on the door jamb or over the door.

in wars like afghanistan (both of them) and iraq the difference between "civilian" and "combatant" is so opaque to the invaders and ephemeral to begin with (most insurgent triggermen weren't careerists, after all) that you might as well use as much firepower as possible and save your men's lives during combat

as it turns out

[Immoren]

"If you know that there aren't friendlies/civilians on the floor and you know that construction of building is light enough. Just have one squad's PKM gunner to empty his belt through the walls" was literally among one of the things I remember being taught in our FIBUA course. lmao.

[Manokan Republic]

"If you know that there aren't friendlies/civilians on the floor and you know that construction of building is light enough. Just have one squad's PKM gunner to empty his belt through the walls" was literally among one of the things I remember being taught in our FIBUA course. lmao.

Yes of course, the issue is if you don't know there are friendlies or civilians in there. I mean you could just say, nuke the place, why send in civilians? But room clearing operations, and close quarters combat with infantry is done when that's not really plausible. Planning things out realistically, you want to be able to send in infantry to clear and occupy areas to avoid mass civilian casualties, mass destruction of property etc. The other issue is when you go to enter the area after chucking in grenades and firing guns in to the building, of which not everyone may have been hit.

[Manokan Republic]

Yeah you can't just murder civilians in an area and destroy property at will,

why not?

Room Clearance

A searching team (two-man minimum) is assigned to clear one or more rooms. When entering a room avoid using door handles. Knock the door open with automatic-fire and throw a handgrenade into the room. After detonation, one man quickly enters, sprays the room with automatic fire, and takes up a position where he can observe the entire room. At this time, a second man enters and conducts a systematic search.

Avoid clearing each room in a repetitive manner. For example, as shown, rooms 1 and 5 were cleared as previously described. Rooms 2 and 3 were cleared by blasting a hole through the wall, throwing in a grenade, entering the room, and conducting a search, as previously described.

Figure G-8a Shoot Door Open

Figure G-8b Toss Grenade

Figure G-8c Enter Firing and Search Room

Figure G-9a Vary Techniques of Clearing Room

In room 7, an enemy "mousehole" between rooms 6 and 7 was discovered behind a sofa. A grenade was thrown in the mousehole; room 6 was then entered through the door and searched. Room 4 was entered by firing through the door, throwing grenade, and then searching. As rooms are cleared, doors are left open, and a predetermined mark (chalk, tape, aerosol spray) is placed on the door jamb or over the door.

in wars like afghanistan (both of them) and iraq the difference between "civilian" and "combatant" is so opaque to the invaders and ephemeral to begin with (most insurgent triggermen weren't careerists, after all) that you might as well use as much firepower as possible and save your men's lives during combat

as it turns out

This method literally has them enter the building. So that turns out to be exactly the same as what I was saying, that they'd need to enter and maneuver around the building. You can't really do this easily with a large heavy machine gun, you need something more compact, at the very least like an M249 or PKM.

And no, the U.S. didn't murder 10's of thousands of civilians at will, or hundreds of thousands in Iraq or Afghanistan. The most we were accused of was by wikileaks at 14,075, and they later reduced it to about 2,600 after it turned out they were overcounting the same news story multiple times. The simple reality is we didn't just go in and murder everyone in sight, blow up every building and so on and so forth, we actually carefully went through the area, which is why it took so long and wasn't over in like a day. Saddam killed about half a million people before we even invaded, destabilized the country by shutting off power and water and releasing all the prisoners, including many terrorists, so a lot of the damage we see is from them.

[Manokan Republic]

You do not see the curvature on that belt on that image? Now imagine if it was an actual bullpup with the action BEHIND the trigger as opposed to above it.

Yeah that sounds awkward, the system I'm imagining looks pretty much identical to that picture though. So as long as you watch your face you should be fine I think

Another idea also is to use a short barrel for room clearing, so the weapon is lighter and shorter when room clearing. As machine gun typically have detachable barrels, you can switch to a shorter barrel for CQB and back to a heavier one for long range use. The primary issue with the pecheng is that it was designed to have a fixed barrel, but, it's not that unreasonable to assume you could create a version with a quick detachable barrel like the original PKM.

[Purpelia]

Yeah you can't just murder civilians in an area and destroy property at will, there is a moral need to slowly and carefully clean out buildings for what basically amounts to police work, and you also have issues with close quarters combat in general when dealing with such a large gun.

You are joking right? Tell me you are joking. I know you are joking because there is a laugh track in the background.

A bullpup machine gun is not really all that hard to carry or reload, and there's a few examples, the best being the PKM machine gun, the second being the M60, although it's large enough to not really have the same problem people think of. It's easier to reload a bullpup machine gun in some ways, because you can reasonably hold it with one hand. The weight is rearwards, and the hand is forwards, so you can effectively hold it with one hand while you reload it with the other.

Neither the PKM or the M60 are bullpup. They do not have the feeding system behind the trigger.

Another thing to bear in mind is that many machine guns lack a stock, such guns mounted on tripods, that were loaded further back, and this wasn't really an issue. The stoner 63 was frequently carried without a stock, and it was fairly easy to reload. With a backpack fed machine gun, you don't need to reload really at all, and many bullpup PKM's use a backpack feeding system. People always say bullpups are hard to reload, but then when you go to do it in person, it's super easy. I generally really don't accept this criticism as doing it in real life usually alleviates the concern.

Backpack feeding systems... Ok, I know they exist. But I also know that now you are joking.

Yeah that sounds awkward, the system I'm imagining looks pretty much identical to that picture though. So as long as you watch your face you should be fine I think

Another idea also is to use a short barrel for room clearing, so the weapon is lighter and shorter when room clearing. As machine gun typically have detachable barrels, you can switch to a shorter barrel for CQB and back to a heavier one for long range use. The primary issue with the pecheng is that it was designed to have a fixed barrel, but, it's not that unreasonable to assume you could create a version with a quick detachable barrel like the original PKM.

Or you could just leave that ONE guy watching the door to make sure nobody walks in after you if the size of his gun is that big of a concern.

[Gallia-]

"If you know that there aren't friendlies/civilians on the floor and you know that construction of building is light enough. Just have one squad's PKM gunner to empty his belt through the walls" was literally among one of the things I remember being taught in our FIBUA course. lmao.

This is mentioned in FM 90-10 along with the "clear room" diagram.

Except it's M60 and "you can shoot through drywall and light timber".

They recommend just having the guy like spin around at the top of the stairs or something blappin' fools.

[Barfleur]

Do men who willingly accept cuckoldry make bad infantrymen?
Do they make bad officers?

It depends—is cuckoldy commonly accepted in your society (given you’re RPing as a Muslim country I would say no), or is your infantry branch made up solely of fetishists? That’s important information.

Does paying the average infantry NCO enough money to comfortably support 2 wives make sense?

Let’s be honest, the average US NCO has 3-4 wives, they just do it consecutively as opposed to concurrently.

[Brinckerhoff]

Does having Gay Regiments (like the Sacred Band of Thebes) work in the modern world?

Would it?

[Tab=20]Which"modern world"? The Thebans were a city-state; the only remaining city-state with a hefty military I can think of is Singapore, and they use it as a nation-building avenue, so any additional segregation would be counterproductive. For the purposes of this question, consider the world as three:

World I: Out-of-the-closet, into the room, integration as the way to go. Not gonna foster segregation at all -- note the complete absence of any mention of separate woman-only combat units as a possibility in the USA's recent integration. Furthermore, the military-as-social-groundswell (like a volunteer fire department) thing is long gone; for example, no unit shows up with their own unique uniform anymore (although bits of kit may vary).

World 2: Bashers. Islamic-sphere or Latin America recognizing gay regiments? Not gonna happen. The closest we have there is the argument that the Russian army is a gay unit, they just don't think of it that way, as being on top means you're not a fag. Right...

World 3: Wouldn't be the weirdest thing out there. Hey, if there's more than one regiment of pre-adolescent girl paramilitaries involved in a civil war (or ongoing gang war, often no clear difference), why not a regiment flying a rainbow flag emblazoned with a rifle? But will history recognize any unit involved in such struggles as noteworthily effective? I think not.

[Gallia-]

Galla's infantry branch is made up solely of Astolfos and Astolfo accessories.

By accessories I mean the rest of the infantry platoon because Astolfo is the PSG and he is actually really hardman mctoughdude who is authorized to wear the Lunar tab because he attended the 6 month lunar mountaineer course at Mare Nectaris and didn't even need physical therapy to get back into terrestrial fighting shape. But he is also wholesome at heart and when the chips are down can be very inspirational. OTOH he's 5' 6" and 155 lbs of wiry muscle but he can bench like 295 and doesn't even juice. He also has a glass bottle from the moon trip but no one knows what's in it.

Mechanized infantry (or worse, motor [read: tractor pulled] riflemen) are all wimpy losers though.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Galla's infantry branch is made up solely of Astolfos and Astolfo accessories.

By accessories I mean the rest of the infantry platoon because Astolfo is the PSG and he is actually really hardman mctoughdude who is authorized to wear the lunar tab because he attended the 6 month lunar mountaineer course at Mare Nectaris and didn't even need physical therapy to get back into terrestrial fighting shape. But he is also wholesome at heart and when the chips are down can be very inspirational. OTOH he's 5' 6" and 155 lbs of wiry muscle but he can bench like 295 and doesn't even juice. He also has a glass bottle from the moon trip but no one knows what's in it.

Mechanized infantry (or worse, motor [read: tractor pulled] riflemen) are all wimpy losers though.

but how many 7.92×107mm bulits does gayla have

[Gallia-]

Galla's infantry branch is made up solely of Astolfos and Astolfo accessories.

By accessories I mean the rest of the infantry platoon because Astolfo is the PSG and he is actually really hardman mctoughdude who is authorized to wear the lunar tab because he attended the 6 month lunar mountaineer course at Mare Nectaris and didn't even need physical therapy to get back into terrestrial fighting shape. But he is also wholesome at heart and when the chips are down can be very inspirational. OTOH he's 5' 6" and 155 lbs of wiry muscle but he can bench like 295 and doesn't even juice. He also has a glass bottle from the moon trip but no one knows what's in it.

Mechanized infantry (or worse, motor [read: tractor pulled] riflemen) are all wimpy losers though.

but how many 7.92×107mm bulits does gayla have

0 but it probably lost a lot of st chamonds to them

well theyre not st chamond theyre called borlange but still

there is a machine gun carrier version that is basically a mark v female that is called "squid" tho and has like 4 independently aimable water cooled machine guns all facing forwards and like 2 on the side in little balls

very powerful tanks

[Immoren]

[Gallia-]

cursed cadre corps

[Cisairse]

What else can I replace with kalashnikovs

Like I have main assault rifle, motorized/mechanized soldier carbine, LMG, and now DMR. How many more kalashnikovs can I have

Shotgun is a given. Is there a 12.7x108mm kalashnikov AMR out there?

[Sevvania]

What else can I replace with kalashnikovs

Like I have main assault rifle, motorized/mechanized soldier carbine, LMG, and now DMR. How many more kalashnikovs can I have

Shotgun is a given. Is there a 12.7x108mm kalashnikov AMR out there?

There is a 12.7mm "grenade" but it isn't x108mm and it's mated to the 5.45mm component of the 80.002
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80.002


There are also AK-based machine pistols

[Manokan Republic]

What else can I replace with kalashnikovs

Like I have main assault rifle, motorized/mechanized soldier carbine, LMG, and now DMR. How many more kalashnikovs can I have

Shotgun is a given. Is there a 12.7x108mm kalashnikov AMR out there?

Did you consider a submachine gun xD

The PP-19 bizon comes to mind lol. It shares 60% commonality with the Ak-74 xD

The ASH-12.7 to my knowledge uses a rotary short recoil operated mechanism, that is not an Ak driven piston system, but it wouldn't be too hard to figure out how to chamber an ak derative weapon in it if you wanted lol, which would give you a sub-sonic .50 round similiar to the .458 SOCOM of the U.S. So a .50 round in an Ak firing system would not be so bad lol

[Puzikas]

Vityaz>Bizon

The AK platform has been chambered in everything from .17HMR to autocannon cartridges. If you have engineering willing to do so you can create a Kalashnikov for any class of weapon.

[Gallia-]

the k in kalashnikov means kurchevsky

recoilless 16" akm when