Infantry Discussion Thread part 11: Gallas Razor edition.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Some people evidently requires adult supervision while browsing the internet.

[Gallia-]

Yeah. It's basically a decadence of the elites in most Islamic societies as common people don't support it in any way, shape, or form. The most liberal the average Muslim leans is "maybe chemical castration as punishment rather than prison/rehabilitation/execution" and the most extreme for the average Muslim is going to be ISIS style "throw 'em off the roof". The most extreme for extremist Muslims is probably vigilante terror gangs that mob justice homosexuals, suspected or proven, on lampposts. That's not really that extreme though as it's pretty common.

Roof throwing is actually law in Saudi Arabia, but because Saudi Arabia is so perverse (in Islamic eyes) it probably isn't enforced much. Since they've allowed women to drive they're sorta going the way of secularism.

In general, since Westernization is being seen as increasingly negative (Western economies besides USA aren't doing so hot these days and who would want to copy a bunch of increasingly out of touch losers) places like Brunei and other little Islamic countries are probably going to try to build a more Islamic future for themselves. The general expectation I suppose is that homosexuality will be punishable by death in most Islamic societies in a couple decades and likely enforced. Malaysia or some other "moderate Muslim" nations will probably be the last ones to go down this path. Naturally this only really applies to flaming pink skirt wearers and pride parades (because that's what they're supposed to suppress), rather than normal or well-adjusted homosexuals who are able to blend in with the general population's morals and social mores.

A bit bizarrely, Islam is generally more accepting of transgender individuals than homosexual, probably entirely because Mahomet never said anything about transitioning or sex reassignment surgery. Whether this will be carried over to Islamic immigration in Western European societies remains to be seen, but there's a fair amount of support that it is.



About as Islamic as Estonia is Christian.

Islam doesn't say "women can't drive", in the early days of Islam (when Muhammad was alive) women rode donkeys and camels (the closest analogy).

It's a move away from traditional Wahhabism, which is the conventional Saudi interpretation of Islam, and towards creeping secularism. If it continues it will inevitably lead to the extinction of Islam as a political ideology I guess. Not that that's bad per se, especially from the perspective of Western Europeans who are most at risk (politically, but also physically [sometimes]), but it is certainly bad from the perspective of anyone who calls themselves Muslim and thinks there should be a state or polity that defends Muslims, since one of the core beliefs of Islam in general is the need to spread a caliphate to cover the entire ummah.

[Husseinarti]

Ok then. And what happens when a dude sees his gay lover get vaporized by an artillery shell? Or when an IFV gets hit with a HEAT round and a dude sees his lover get impaled by a jet of molten copper? All of a sudden they've become extremely demoralized.

Or they want to "avenge" them.

And they make a stupid decision in combat and they die and get others killed.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

Does it makes sense for most new recruits to the Royal Ghazi Regiment (Sharifistani equivalent of the SAS) to require criminal history waivers?

Most US marines in the early '90s did

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

The last guy who did so irl got his entire squad KIA/WIA/POW'd and lost in the desert, his mission a complete failure.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

The last guy who did so irl got his entire squad KIA/WIA/POW'd and lost in the desert, his mission a complete failure.

Did what?

[Remnants of Exilvania]

There's of course also the issue of relationship drama within the unit.

"My battle brother cheated on me with my captain! I am now emotionally unstable."

That certainly doesn't help unit cohesion or general morale, having drama within it every now and so often.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

There's of course also the issue of relationship drama within the unit.

"My battle brother cheated on me with my captain! I am now emotionally unstable."

That certainly doesn't help unit cohesion or general morale, having drama within it every now and so often.

In Sharifistan having affairs with your comrade's lover, wife or even mistress is seen as an immoral and criminal behaviour.

[Remnants of Exilvania]

There's of course also the issue of relationship drama within the unit.

"My battle brother cheated on me with my captain! I am now emotionally unstable."

That certainly doesn't help unit cohesion or general morale, having drama within it every now and so often.

In Sharifistan having affairs with your comrade's lover, wife or even mistress is seen as an immoral and criminal behaviour.

Murder is also seen as immoral and criminal behaviour and yet it still happens.

Besides, it doesn't even need to be an affair. Could also just be a break-up which sends someone tumbling down an emotionally dark path.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

The last guy who did so irl got his entire squad KIA/WIA/POW'd and lost in the desert, his mission a complete failure.

Did what?

The last guy in the SAS with a criminal background.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

In Sharifistan having affairs with your comrade's lover, wife or even mistress is seen as an immoral and criminal behaviour.

Murder is also seen as immoral and criminal behaviour and yet it still happens.

Besides, it doesn't even need to be an affair. Could also just be a break-up which sends someone tumbling down an emotionally dark path.

1. True but murder is not something that is common in normal social settings.
2. True but they could find a new lover in the regiment very quickly.
They could be in a relationship for years or decades, breaking up only for a week before finding a new lover who they are also with for decades.

[Barfleur]

Should machine gunners (I mean like MMG operators, fitted with belt-fed battle rifle cartridge guns) be outfitted with sidearms? I've read that some countries like New Zealand give their MGers pistols, and some like Norway give them PDWs, while some countries like Russia and the United States don't issue sidearms at all.

Yes. if the MG jams, or if it's not practical or possible to use it for whatever reason, a pistol would be handy.

Or they want to "avenge" them.

And they make a stupid decision in combat and they die and get others killed.

Or end up as yet another depressed veteran, has trouble adjusting to civilian life, getting a job, and finding a new relationship, and kills himself. Tragic, yes, but quite possible when you throw people with intense emotional connections to one another in situations where it is likely at least one will get shot/burned/blasted/killed/maimed for life.

[Remnants of Exilvania]

Murder is also seen as immoral and criminal behaviour and yet it still happens.

Besides, it doesn't even need to be an affair. Could also just be a break-up which sends someone tumbling down an emotionally dark path.

1. True but murder is not something that is common in normal social settings.
2. True but they could find a new lover in the regiment very quickly.
They could be in a relationship for years or decades, breaking up only for a week before finding a new lover who they are also with for decades.

A lot of can and could be. And eh, they'd not necessarily find a new lover. It doesn't work that easily...especcially if for anyone new, it would be immoral and outright criminal behaviour to go behind the back of their current lover to love the emotionally broken loner.

That just wouldn't be there with a regular unit and its regular, drilled in cohesion.

It's just not worth the extra trouble for an unlikely payoff.

[Barfleur]

I saw a video of a guy in a Ghillie suit in a river, scaring (and possibly emotionally scarring) a little girl on a float. Aside from being useful in fun situations like that, is there any use for such a suit in today's warfare, especially for Western powers? It's hard to imagine a solder carrying packets of sand on his back...

[Kalaron]

Ok then. And what happens when a dude sees his gay lover get vaporized by an artillery shell? Or when an IFV gets hit with a HEAT round and a dude sees his lover get impaled by a jet of molten copper? All of a sudden they've become extremely demoralized.

Or they want to "avenge" them.

Or the sight of their lover being vaporized in an extremely graphic manner leaves them in an emotional daze like most humans in the modern day. I feel like the unit itself would also find it harder to continue with operations under fire, if your lover was shot would you be willing to keep marching rather than getting them to safety?

[Barfleur]

Or they want to "avenge" them.

Or the sight of their lover being vaporized in an extremely graphic manner leaves them in an emotional daze like most humans in the modern day. I feel like the unit itself would also find it harder to continue with operations under fire, if your lover was shot would you be willing to keep marching rather than getting them to safety?

This is the first time I've heard of the Dulcinea Effect in a context not related to women in the military. Aside from the evident breakdown of discipline, that's probably another reason RL militaries prohibit or discourage fraternization--if you're a medic and several soldiers need help, it's only natural that the first one you help is the one you've been sleeping with. Which is disasterous in a military context.

[Dayganistan]

Ok then. And what happens when a dude sees his gay lover get vaporized by an artillery shell? Or when an IFV gets hit with a HEAT round and a dude sees his lover get impaled by a jet of molten copper? All of a sudden they've become extremely demoralized.

Or they want to "avenge" them.

I genuinely don't think you're aware of just how gruesome real battlefield injuries are. Please, do yourself a favor and watch some Syrian combat footage before you talk about soldiers immediately wanting to avenge the death of a lover. It's bad enough seeing someone you don't know get vaporized or having to see blood running out their nose after they've been shot, now imagine that happens to someone you're in a romantic relationship with.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

Or they want to "avenge" them.

I genuinely don't think you're aware of just how gruesome real battlefield injuries are. Please, do yourself a favor and watch some Syrian combat footage before you talk about soldiers immediately wanting to avenge the death of a lover. It's bad enough seeing someone you don't know get vaporized or having to see blood running out their nose after they've been shot, now imagine that happens to someone you're in a romantic relationship with.

Exactly you would be livid.
Why do you think people are shown stuff like that in recruitment propoganda?

[Free Ravensburg]

Rate my Soldier Variants ONLY

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Army and Soldier Variants

[Dayganistan]

I genuinely don't think you're aware of just how gruesome real battlefield injuries are. Please, do yourself a favor and watch some Syrian combat footage before you talk about soldiers immediately wanting to avenge the death of a lover. It's bad enough seeing someone you don't know get vaporized or having to see blood running out their nose after they've been shot, now imagine that happens to someone you're in a romantic relationship with.

Exactly you would be livid.
Why do you think people are shown stuff like that in recruitment propoganda?

Maybe it will anger you in the moment. Maybe it will demoralize you and you'll need to get taken off the front. People will react differently. But I can guarantee seeing someone you were in love with for a decade or more get killed in a gruesome fashion would not be great for morale.
Also people are absolutely not shown this kind of stuff in recruiting propaganda. They don't say "join the army and watch your buddy get impaled by an explosively formed penetrator" they say "join the army and use your signing bonus to buy that cool Ford Raptor"

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

Exactly you would be livid.
Why do you think people are shown stuff like that in recruitment propoganda?

Maybe it will anger you in the moment. Maybe it will demoralize you and you'll need to get taken off the front. People will react differently. But I can guarantee seeing someone you were in love with for a decade or more get killed in a gruesome fashion would not be great for morale.
Also people are absolutely not shown this kind of stuff in recruiting propaganda. They don't say "join the army and watch your buddy get impaled by an explosively formed penetrator" they say "join the army and use your signing bonus to buy that cool Ford Raptor"

Depends in some countries and times images of atrocity victims are used in recruitment propoganda.

[Purpelia]

Maybe it will anger you in the moment. Maybe it will demoralize you and you'll need to get taken off the front. People will react differently. But I can guarantee seeing someone you were in love with for a decade or more get killed in a gruesome fashion would not be great for morale.
Also people are absolutely not shown this kind of stuff in recruiting propaganda. They don't say "join the army and watch your buddy get impaled by an explosively formed penetrator" they say "join the army and use your signing bonus to buy that cool Ford Raptor"

Depends in some countries and times images of atrocity victims are used in recruitment propoganda.

But mostly with the slogan of "you can avenge this" and not "you can become this". Big difference.
Dead baby stick on a bayonet? Great propaganda. Raped teen girls with their faces peeled off? Just as good. Soldiers being tortured... yea let's not.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

Depends in some countries and times images of atrocity victims are used in recruitment propoganda.

But mostly with the slogan of "you can avenge this" and not "you can become this". Big difference.
Dead baby stick on a bayonet? Great propaganda. Raped teen girls with their faces peeled off? Just as good. Soldiers being tortured... yea let's not.

True but likewise seeing your comrade injured when you're already in can motivate people to fight more bravely

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

Or the sight of their lover being vaporized in an extremely graphic manner leaves them in an emotional daze like most humans in the modern day. I feel like the unit itself would also find it harder to continue with operations under fire, if your lover was shot would you be willing to keep marching rather than getting them to safety?

This is the first time I've heard of the Dulcinea Effect in a context not related to women in the military. Aside from the evident breakdown of discipline, that's probably another reason RL militaries prohibit or discourage fraternization--if you're a medic and several soldiers need help, it's only natural that the first one you help is the one you've been sleeping with. Which is disasterous in a military context.

I thought the fraternisation that was discouraged was between officers and enlistees

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Some people evidently requires adult supervision while browsing the internet.