Infantry Discussion Thread part 11: Gallas Razor edition.

[Purpelia]

Does having Gay Regiments (like the Sacred Band of Thebes) work in the modern world?

Would it?

Why not? And why yes? Like seriously it's a huge question if that was even a real thing that worked. As in if the supposed connection between them was worth it compared to the simple fact that they were professional soldiers with training and kit fighting in a world of people that weren't.

But like go for it. In fact, go further and conscript all homosexuals into your military.

[Gallia-]

Daily reminder that 60% of Marine recruits required moral waivers in 1990 and '91.

Fun fact: the only modern US branch that allows you to enlist as an alternative to prison time is the US Navy. Other branches have instructions that expressly prohibit it.

This explains so much about 7th Fleet.

[Spirit of Hope]

Does having Gay Regiments (like the Sacred Band of Thebes) work in the modern world?

Would it?

Could you wait more than a couple of hours to bump your own question, especially since there had been very little activity in the thread.

The Sacred Band was far more than just a "gay regiment," they were the elite standing force of Thebes. An important thing to remember about ancient Greece is that most city states didn't have a standing army, they instead used citizen soldiers called up for the campaign. The Sacred Band was a small elite standing force for Thebes to anchor the less well trained and equipped citizen soldiers. The fact that they were gay is rather incidental to why they were successful.

Now apply some critical thinking, how do you think this model would be effected by modern warfare?

[Ormata]

Fun fact: the only modern US branch that allows you to enlist as an alternative to prison time is the US Navy. Other branches have instructions that expressly prohibit it.

This explains so much about 7th Fleet.

I mainly blame the Marines.

[Fordorsia]

To add onto what Spirit of Hope said about them not just being a "gay regiment". The band was composed of 150 pairs of lovers, the point being that they were incredibly cohesive as a unit and motivated in protecting and motivating each other in and out of combat. This is reflected in accounts of them in action, they were fiercely loyal to each other, that was the intention.

This question is meaningless in a vacuum. There are so many cultural and political aspects of your nation and military that need to be fleshed out to allow for such a different and unique unit to exist. You couldn't just take a real life military and slap on a regiment of gay lovers, because that would make zero logical or practical sense.

Also with them being a permanent standing unit, professionally trained, unlike most of the Greek armies, it is likely that that is what made them stand out and be so effective in combat, more than the often dramatized and exaggerated effect of them fighting alongside their lovers. If you want a unit that is similar to them regarding capabilities compared to the rest of your army, you will need a small professionally trained core, in an army of levies. I'm personally not sure if any such thing exists in the modern world.

[The Akasha Colony]

To add onto what Spirit of Hope said about them not just being a "gay regiment". The band was composed of 150 pairs of lovers, the point being that they were incredibly cohesive as a unit and motivated in protecting and motivating each other in and out of combat. This is reflected in accounts of them in action, they were fiercely loyal to each other, that was the intention.

This question is meaningless in a vacuum. There are so many cultural and political aspects of your nation and military that need to be fleshed out to allow for such a different and unique unit to exist. You couldn't just take a real life military and slap on a regiment of gay lovers, because that would make zero logical or practical sense.

Also with them being a permanent standing unit, professionally trained, unlike most of the Greek armies, it is likely that that is what made them stand out and be so effective in combat, more than the often dramatized and exaggerated effect of them fighting alongside their lovers. If you want a unit that is similar to them regarding capabilities compared to the rest of your army, you will need a small professionally trained core, in an army of levies. I'm personally not sure if any such thing exists in the modern world.

But what about a regiment of gay unemployed convicts between the ages of 18-29?

[Fordorsia]

To add onto what Spirit of Hope said about them not just being a "gay regiment". The band was composed of 150 pairs of lovers, the point being that they were incredibly cohesive as a unit and motivated in protecting and motivating each other in and out of combat. This is reflected in accounts of them in action, they were fiercely loyal to each other, that was the intention.

This question is meaningless in a vacuum. There are so many cultural and political aspects of your nation and military that need to be fleshed out to allow for such a different and unique unit to exist. You couldn't just take a real life military and slap on a regiment of gay lovers, because that would make zero logical or practical sense.

Also with them being a permanent standing unit, professionally trained, unlike most of the Greek armies, it is likely that that is what made them stand out and be so effective in combat, more than the often dramatized and exaggerated effect of them fighting alongside their lovers. If you want a unit that is similar to them regarding capabilities compared to the rest of your army, you will need a small professionally trained core, in an army of levies. I'm personally not sure if any such thing exists in the modern world.

But what about a regiment of gay unemployed convicts between the ages of 18-29?

Yes because that would reduce unemployment and help the economy.

[Husseinarti]

Does having Gay Regiments (like the Sacred Band of Thebes) work in the modern world?

no

[Dayganistan]

Does having Gay Regiments (like the Sacred Band of Thebes) work in the modern world?

Would it?

Having "gay regiments" in a modern military would just spark a whole discrimination debate because it would be seen as segregating gays into a separate gay unit rather than properly integrating them.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

Would it?

Having "gay regiments" in a modern military would just spark a whole discrimination debate because it would be seen as segregating gays into a separate gay unit rather than properly integrating them.

It's optional.

It motivates them in the same way straight men wanting to appear brave to women has been part of a soldier's motivation throughout history

[Husseinarti]

Having "gay regiments" in a modern military would just spark a whole discrimination debate because it would be seen as segregating gays into a separate gay unit rather than properly integrating them.

It's optional.

It motivates them in the same way straight men wanting to appear brave to women has been part of a soldier's motivation throughout history

the band of thebes specifically were dudes who were in relations with each other, not just a bunch of 17~25 y/o males showing off for pussy.

the unit would be okay in the first engagement

and it would be combat ineffective by the second

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

It's optional.

It motivates them in the same way straight men wanting to appear brave to women has been part of a soldier's motivation throughout history

the band of thebes specifically were dudes who were in relations with each other, not just a bunch of 17~25 y/o males showing off for pussy.

the unit would be okay in the first engagement

and it would be combat ineffective by the second

The purpose of gay regiments would be to motivate "dudes who were in relations with each other"

[Spirit of Hope]

the band of thebes specifically were dudes who were in relations with each other, not just a bunch of 17~25 y/o males showing off for pussy.

the unit would be okay in the first engagement

and it would be combat ineffective by the second

The purpose of gay regiments would be to motivate "dudes who were in relations with each other"

Why do they need to be in a unit with other gay soldiers to be motivated? It isn't like soldiers for most of history have had a problem with being motivated without their loved ones being in the front lines with them.

[Husseinarti]

the band of thebes specifically were dudes who were in relations with each other, not just a bunch of 17~25 y/o males showing off for pussy.

the unit would be okay in the first engagement

and it would be combat ineffective by the second

The purpose of gay regiments would be to motivate "dudes who were in relations with each other"

okay just let them be in the general population of units then

why have a regiment just of gays

you clearly dont understand what was supposed to be special about the band of thebes

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Isn't being gay punishable by stoning in Shariareich anyway?

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

Isn't being gay punishable by stoning in Shariareich anyway?

Not in Sharifistan,
It was legalised in 1991 for a number of reasons.
Also I believe you're confusing it with adultery (which requires at least one of the participants is married unlike fornication, both are, however, referred to as zinah).

[Dayganistan]

the band of thebes specifically were dudes who were in relations with each other, not just a bunch of 17~25 y/o males showing off for pussy.

the unit would be okay in the first engagement

and it would be combat ineffective by the second

The purpose of gay regiments would be to motivate "dudes who were in relations with each other"

Ok then. And what happens when a dude sees his gay lover get vaporized by an artillery shell? Or when an IFV gets hit with a HEAT round and a dude sees his lover get impaled by a jet of molten copper? All of a sudden they've become extremely demoralized.

[Fordorsia]

There is also mention that the Sacred Band was used as officers/motivators/anchors/trainers/etc for levy units when dispersed through an army instead of being deployed as a single fighting unit. But again that has nothing to do with their sexuality, and everything to do with them being the professional core of the military.

Please read the explanations me and spirit of hope gave. Unless you have fairly extensive cultural and political reasons for such a unit to exist in your nation in this way, it wouldn't make any sense. Handwaving a regiment of gay lovers into a modern military simply does not do anything, except have potentially negative effects when they start taking casualties. Mentalities and warfare have changed a lot in 2400 years, it just doesn't work unless you put effort into explaining how it would in your case. But now you have the reasons for why the Sacred Band existed and why they were effective in their roles, so it's up to you if you can try use it as inspiration for your own take on it.

[Barfleur]

Fun fact: the only modern US branch that allows you to enlist as an alternative to prison time is the US Navy. Other branches have instructions that expressly prohibit it.

This explains so much about 7th Fleet.

Imagine what it was like before Subic Bay got shut down...

[Cisairse]

Should machine gunners (I mean like MMG operators, fitted with belt-fed battle rifle cartridge guns) be outfitted with sidearms? I've read that some countries like New Zealand give their MGers pistols, and some like Norway give them PDWs, while some countries like Russia and the United States don't issue sidearms at all.

On a related note, what ancient wisdom is leading the Netherlands to give four guns to some riflemen? Unless this source is just wrong

[Spirit of Hope]

Should machine gunners (I mean like MMG operators, fitted with belt-fed battle rifle cartridge guns) be outfitted with sidearms? I've read that some countries like New Zealand give their MGers pistols, and some like Norway give them PDWs, while some countries like Russia and the United States don't issue sidearms at all.

Its basically personal preference on a national scale, if your MMG is reliable you don't need to worry about issuing a pistol. But some nations feel like handing out pistols or PDWs because there are situations where a MG is less than ideal.

On a related note, what ancient wisdom is leading the Netherlands to give four guns to some riflemen? Unless this source is just wrong

One gun is an under barrel grenade launcher and the shotgun is probably stored in the vehicle unless needed.

Here is the source article, the guy who makes them is fairly reliable and accurate.

[Cisairse]

Should machine gunners (I mean like MMG operators, fitted with belt-fed battle rifle cartridge guns) be outfitted with sidearms? I've read that some countries like New Zealand give their MGers pistols, and some like Norway give them PDWs, while some countries like Russia and the United States don't issue sidearms at all.

Its basically personal preference on a national scale, if your MMG is reliable you don't need to worry about issuing a pistol. But some nations feel like handing out pistols or PDWs because there are situations where a MG is less than ideal.

On a related note, what ancient wisdom is leading the Netherlands to give four guns to some riflemen? Unless this source is just wrong

One gun is an under barrel grenade launcher and the shotgun is probably stored in the vehicle unless needed.

Here is the source article, the guy who makes them is fairly reliable and accurate.

I see. Thanks!

[Gallia-]

Isn't being gay punishable by stoning in Shariareich anyway?

Yeah. It's basically a decadence of the elites in most Islamic societies as common people don't support it in any way, shape, or form. The most liberal the average Muslim leans is "maybe chemical castration as punishment rather than prison/rehabilitation/execution" and the most extreme for the average Muslim is going to be ISIS style "throw 'em off the roof". The most extreme for extremist Muslims is probably vigilante terror gangs that mob justice homosexuals, suspected or proven, on lampposts. That's not really that extreme though as it's pretty common.

Roof throwing is actually law in Saudi Arabia, but because Saudi Arabia is so perverse (in Islamic eyes) it probably isn't enforced much. Since they've allowed women to drive they're sorta going the way of secularism.

In general, since Westernization is being seen as increasingly negative (Western economies besides USA aren't doing so hot these days and who would want to copy a bunch of increasingly out of touch losers) places like Brunei and other little Islamic countries are probably going to try to build a more Islamic future for themselves. The general expectation I suppose is that homosexuality will be punishable by death in most Islamic societies in a couple decades and likely enforced. Malaysia or some other "moderate Muslim" nations will probably be the last ones to go down this path. Naturally this only really applies to flaming pink skirt wearers and pride parades (because that's what they're supposed to suppress), rather than normal or well-adjusted homosexuals who are able to blend in with the general population's morals and social mores.

A bit bizarrely, Islam is generally more accepting of transgender individuals than homosexual, probably entirely because Mahomet never said anything about transitioning or sex reassignment surgery. Whether this will be carried over to Islamic immigration in Western European societies remains to be seen, but there's a fair amount of support that it is.

Isn't being gay punishable by stoning in Shariareich anyway?

Not in Sharifistan,

About as Islamic as Estonia is Christian.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

Isn't being gay punishable by stoning in Shariareich anyway?

Yeah. It's basically a decadence of the elites in most Islamic societies as common people don't support it in any way, shape, or form. The most liberal the average Muslim leans is "maybe chemical castration as punishment rather than prison/rehabilitation/execution" and the most extreme for the average Muslim is going to be ISIS style "throw 'em off the roof". The most extreme for extremist Muslims is probably vigilante terror gangs that mob justice homosexuals, suspected or proven, on lampposts. That's not really that extreme though as it's pretty common.

Roof throwing is actually law in Saudi Arabia, but because Saudi Arabia is so perverse (in Islamic eyes) it probably isn't enforced much. Since they've allowed women to drive they're sorta going the way of secularism.

In general, since Westernization is being seen as increasingly negative (Western economies besides USA aren't doing so hot these days and who would want to copy a bunch of increasingly out of touch losers) places like Brunei and other little Islamic countries are probably going to try to build a more Islamic future for themselves. The general expectation I suppose is that homosexuality will be punishable by death in most Islamic societies in a couple decades and likely enforced. Malaysia or some other "moderate Muslim" nations will probably be the last ones to go down this path. Naturally this only really applies to flaming pink skirt wearers and pride parades (because that's what they're supposed to suppress), rather than normal or well-adjusted homosexuals who are able to blend in with the general population's morals and social mores.

A bit bizarrely, Islam is generally more accepting of transgender individuals than homosexual, probably entirely because Mahomet never said anything about transitioning or sex reassignment surgery. Whether this will be carried over to Islamic immigration in Western European societies remains to be seen, but there's a fair amount of support that it is.

Not in Sharifistan,

About as Islamic as Estonia is Christian.

Islam doesn't say "women can't drive", in the early days of Islam (when Muhammad was alive) women rode donkeys and camels (the closest analogy).

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

The purpose of gay regiments would be to motivate "dudes who were in relations with each other"

Ok then. And what happens when a dude sees his gay lover get vaporized by an artillery shell? Or when an IFV gets hit with a HEAT round and a dude sees his lover get impaled by a jet of molten copper? All of a sudden they've become extremely demoralized.

Or they want to "avenge" them.