Infantry Discussion Thread part 11: Gallas Razor edition.

[Manokan Republic]

this just seems to be based on literally nothing more than your raw opinion

Opinion of a ballistician that treats gunshot wounds is probably a safe one to bet on.

And I'm sure he specifically has done tests with this exact bullet. I'm sure it contradicts all the other tests that have been done. It's really pretty simple to know if somebody knows something or not, you know if they actually have the knowledge on that thing.

[Manokan Republic]

A GPMG, two LMG, a DMR and a Carl-Gustav RR, is this a good amount of firepower in a squad, not counting rifles?

It depends on how large the squad is, it might even be too much firepower xD

But it seems fine. Three machine guns, one marksmen and a rocket launcher, what is the size of the squad? For three fireteams it would make more sense, but if only two there will be a lot of cross-over, as in one fireteam will have two machine guns, two heavy weapons and so on.

[Immoren]

A GPMG, two LMG, a DMR and a Carl-Gustav RR, is this a good amount of firepower in a squad, not counting rifles?

Cut one LMG

[Gallia-]

[Triplebaconation]

How many McRibs are those things rated for?

[Gallia-]

at least 2

[Theodosiya]

(Image)

Huh. Mine not too different than that.

Squad Leader, HK416A5 + M320
Drone Operator, HK416A5 + Drone

Maneuver Team

Team Leader, HK416A5 + M320
Auto Gunner, MG4
Designated Marksman, HK417
2x Rifleman, HK416A5 + AT-4/MATADOR

Fire Team

Team Leader, HK416A5 + M320
Auto Gunner, MG4
CG/RPG-7 Operator
Assistant CG/RPG-7 Operator
Rifleman, HK416A5 + AT-4/MATADOR

Machine Gun Team

Team Leader, HK416A5 + M320
MG3/5 Operator
2xAssistant MG3/5 Operator

Gonna be the new standard in 2024/5

Mechanized and Motorized will swap the MG team for Vehicle team. Also, how useful 25mm grenade is?

[Taihei Tengoku]

A GPMG, two LMG, a DMR and a Carl-Gustav RR, is this a good amount of firepower in a squad, not counting rifles?

I wonder where you got the idea

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Tt-chan how mamy times have you seen Momotaro Umi no Shinpei?

[Danternoust]

A GPMG, two LMG, a DMR and a Carl-Gustav RR, is this a good amount of firepower in a squad, not counting rifles?

long range desert patrol?
yes
everything else, no

[Taihei Tengoku]

LRRP is the future lol

[Theodosiya]

A GPMG, two LMG, a DMR and a Carl-Gustav RR, is this a good amount of firepower in a squad, not counting rifles?

I wonder where you got the idea

TBH, genuinely don't know. Maybe looking at USMC, USSR, US Army and Hungarian squad TOE will do funny thing to your brain. Also, might trade a rifleman in Maneuver team for a 25mm grenadier. Maybe. Is ththere any advantage?

[Purpelia]

Personally I treat the 25mm guy as my DMR. Both perform the role of medium-long range suppression by accurate fire. One just has less point accuracy and more AOE to make up for it.

[Gallia-]

I wonder where you got the idea

TBH, genuinely don't know.

I doubt that, but you copied TT's squad layout, unknowingly or otherwise, which was literally like one or two posts above yours.

[Theodosiya]

In light of a recent discussion...

Non Marine Light Infantry/Light Motorized Infantry/Light Airborne/Light Air Assault Platoon... (also, I decided to switch to square maneuver without counting support, so now size will be larger)

A option

Platoon HQ Squad

Command Team

Platoon Leader, 1st Lt, HK-416A5 16'5 + M320
Platoon Sergeant, SFC, HK-416A5 16'5 + M320
Platoon Drone Operator, SGT, HK-416A5 16'5 + Drone
Forward Observer, SGT, HK-416A5
Forward Observer Radio Operator, CPL, HK-416A5 16'5
Platoon Medic, CPL, HK-416A5 16'5
Platoon Radioman, PFC, HK-416A5 16'5
Platoon 60mm commando mortar operator, CPL, HK-416A5 16'5 + mortar
2x Platoon 60mm mortar assistant, PFC, HK-416A5 16'5

Platoon Weapon Squad

PWS Leader, SSGT, HK-416A5 16'5 + M320

2x Javelin ATGM team

Javelin Operator, SGT, Javelin + HK-416A5 16'5
Javelin Operator Assistant, CPL, HK-416A5 16'5
2x Javelin Missile Carrier, PFC, HK-416A5 16'5

2x MG3 Team

MG3 Operator, SGT, MG3
MG3 Operator Assistant, CPL, HK-416A5 16'5
2x MG3 Ammo/Tripod Bearer, PFC, HK-416A5 16'5

3x Rifle Squad

Squad Leader, SSGT, HK-416A5 16'5 + M320GL
Squad Drone Operator, CPL, HK-416A5 16'5 + Drone

Maneuver Team

Team Leader, SGT, HK-416A5 16'5 + M320GL
SAW Gunner, CPL, MG-4
DMR, PFC, HK-417A2 '20
Riflemen, PFC, HK-416A5 16'5

Fire Team

Team Leader, SGT, HK-416A5 16'5 + M320GL
SAW Gunner, CPL, MG-4
Riflemen, PFC, HK-416A5 16'5
AT Operator, PFC, HK-416A5 14'5 + MATADOR, could be replaced with Carl-Gustav, which means one of the rifleman will be ammo bearer.

More disposables could be handed, but each squad will be alloted only one Carl-Gustav M5.

B Option

Platoon HQ Squad

Command Team

Platoon Leader, 1st Lt, HK-416A5 16'5 + M320
Platoon Sergeant, SFC, HK-416A5 16'5 + M320
Platoon Drone Operator, SGT, HK-416A5 16'5 + Drone
Forward Observer, SGT, HK-416A5
Forward Observer Radio Operator, CPL, HK-416A5 16'5
Platoon Medic, CPL, HK-416A5 16'5
Platoon Radioman, PFC, HK-416A5 16'5

Platoon Weapon Squad

PWS Leader, SSGT, HK-416A5 16'5 + M320

2x Javelin ATGM team

Javelin Operator, SGT, Javelin + HK-416A5 16'5
Javelin Operator Assistant, CPL, HK-416A5 16'5
2x Javelin Missile Carrier, PFC, HK-416A5 16'5

2x Mortar Team

Mortar Team Leader, SGT, HK-416A5 16'5 + M320
Mortar Team Radioman, PFC, HK-416A5 16'5
Platoon 60mm commando mortar operator, CPL, HK-416A5 16'5 + mortar
Platoon 60mm mortar assistant, PFC, HK-416A5 16'5

3x Rifle Squad

Command Team

Squad Leader, SSGT, HK-416A5 16'5 + M320GL
Squad Drone Operator, CPL, HK-416A5 16'5 + Drone
MG3 Operator, CPL, MG3
2x MG3 Ammo/Tripod Bearer, PFC, HK-416A5 16'5

Maneuver Team

Team Leader, SGT, HK-416A5 16'5 + M320GL
SAW Gunner, CPL, MG-4
DMR, PFC, HK-417A2 '20
Riflemen, PFC, HK-416A5 16'5

Fire Team

Team Leader, SGT, HK-416A5 16'5 + M320GL
SAW Gunner, CPL, MG-4
Riflemen, PFC, HK-416A5 16'5
AT Operator, PFC, HK-416A5 14'5 + MATADOR, could be replaced with Carl-Gustav, which means one of the rifleman will be ammo bearer.

More disposables could be handed, but each squad will be alloted only one Carl-Gustav M5.

Might as well discuss the (dis)advantages of A & B...

Yeah, I had wrote this before. Make adjustments, then it would be basically the same. Squads of 16... Suffice to say, in general, mine are larger than TT, and I kinda believe have some advantage, though they have knee mortar. However its still fluctuating, and with the platoon ideas... I could have three GPMG, two Javelin, two 60mm mortar, 6 LMG, 3 DMR and three CG/RPG-7 in a platoon. Maybe add three 25mm grenadiers too, or not. And pray for 16 capacity APC & IFV. So I could have swap the MG team for vehicle.

[Taihei Tengoku]

The overflow infantrymen will get put in something like late war Heer sections where six or seven of them follow a PK and RPG around and maneuver at the platoon

[Manokan Republic]

Yeah, I had wrote this before. Make adjustments, then it would be basically the same. Squads of 16... Suffice to say, in general, mine are larger than TT, and I kinda believe have some advantage, though they have knee mortar. However its still fluctuating, and with the platoon ideas... I could have three GPMG, two Javelin, two 60mm mortar, 6 LMG, 3 DMR and three CG/RPG-7 in a platoon. Maybe add three 25mm grenadiers too, or not. And pray for 16 capacity APC & IFV. So I could have swap the MG team for vehicle.

The Patria pasi was supposed to be able to carry 16 soldiers, but it has pretty bad armor. An upgraded version is supposed to be able to stop 14.5mm rounds, which is probably achieved in part by using spaced armor. Another option is the AAV-7, although it's capacity may be somewhat overstated.

An underbarrel grenade launcher is generally a decent substitute for a semiautomatic grenade launcher, given that the area of effect removes the need to fire quickly, and air-bursting rounds typically require some set-up time to use as well. You could have like 1 heavy grenadier and then two light grenadiers or something like it.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

退く戦術われ知らず
見よや歩兵の操典を
前進前進また前進
肉弾とどく所まで
@TT
Yes my boredom knows no bounds.

[Republic of Penguinian Astronautia]

Would body armor made of exotic materials like graph end and spider silk actually be any good? What about shear thickening fluids?

[Spirit of Hope]

Would body armor made of exotic materials like graph end and spider silk actually be any good? What about shear thickening fluids?

Who knows? None of these technologies is anywhere near being usable. Shear thickening fluids have had some tests done, but would still have major hurdles before they could be used.

STF might result in armor being thinner, but almost certainly heavier for same levels of protection. It would definitely have problems with breathing and comfort, and would probably have storage issues.

[Republic of Penguinian Astronautia]

Would that be heavier than using plates for increased protection or heavier than soft armor?

[Austrasien]

Would body armor made of exotic materials like graph end and spider silk actually be any good? What about shear thickening fluids?

Using very high strength fibres like carbon-whatever or spider silk would perhaps yield a lighter plate carrier. But the protective value would be unlikely to change. It is the hard armour plates the vest carries which confer most of the protection and these are already far superior to anything woven from fibres. Even very exotic fibres.

Shear thickening fluids are one of many technologies that have been "getting there" since at least the 1960's. We aren't there yet.

Perhaps the only exotic materials which might appear in armour reasonably soon are new magnesium or steel/aluminum alloys that may equal or exceed the performance of titanium pound-for-pound and approach the performance of ceramic plates without the attendant fragility of ceramics. But even this will be more of an ergonomic/economic improvement.

Silicon Carbide and Boron Carbide (the top options for ballistic plates right now) are just really, really strong and it's hard to see how they could be genuinely exceeded without using something like an artificially synthesized diamond. And they have not hit their performance ceilings. The processes for forming bulk objects out of ceramics are still very imperfect compared to say metal forming and result in objects with properties well below the limits of the material it is formed from. More perfect ceramic plates will be stronger than existing plates which are already stronger pound-for-pound than anything else.

[Gallia-]

tfw when you shave 10 ounces from your plate carrier but you grow 3 lbs in the plate

youre only 2 lbs in the hole!

[Dothrakia]

Would body armor made of exotic materials like graph end and spider silk actually be any good? What about shear thickening fluids?

What they said.
You also have to deal with the increased costs of these materials. IDK how expensive spider silk is but it can't be cheap to produce, harvest and make into a suit

[Spirit of Hope]

Would that be heavier than using plates for increased protection or heavier than soft armor?

Basic idea of shear thickening fluids is you need fewer layers of kevlar for the same protection, but the overall weight increases. You would most likely still need a plate for full protection against rifle caliber threats. I haven't seen any evidence that stf would provide enough additional protection for soft armor to protect against threats you normally need hard armor for.