Infantry Discussion Thread part 11: Gallas Razor edition.

[Republic of Penguinian Astronautia]

I like it, but what is it, exactly?

Variations of Sevvania's WWII-era service rifle (officially designated as "Rifle, Semi-Automatic, 7.62x54mmR, Outlander Model 1940"). The "Mark I" at top is shown in both grenadier and sharpshooter configurations alongside its bayonet. Marks II through IV were explorations in automatic rifles/machine carbines, with the last two of those iterations largely intended for paratroopers (the local BAR-equivalent being deemed too cumbersome to jump with).

How much is the magazine capacity?

[Purpelia]

Variations of Sevvania's WWII-era service rifle (officially designated as "Rifle, Semi-Automatic, 7.62x54mmR, Outlander Model 1940"). The "Mark I" at top is shown in both grenadier and sharpshooter configurations alongside its bayonet. Marks II through IV were explorations in automatic rifles/machine carbines, with the last two of those iterations largely intended for paratroopers (the local BAR-equivalent being deemed too cumbersome to jump with).

How much is the magazine capacity?

Looks like 10-15 to me.

[Manokan Republic]

How much is the magazine capacity?

Looks like 10-15 to me.

Probably 10-15, but 20-25 for the larger one.

[Purpelia]

I am not convinced. Just looking at existing stuff like the AVS-36 the small one is clearly 10 and the large one 15.


15 rounds of 7.62x54R take up a lot of space.

[Sevvania]

How much is the magazine capacity?

Looks like 10-15 to me.

10-round magazines are the standard for the service rifle, the larger mags were originally intended to be 20-rounders, but 15 is probably a more accurate estimate considering I essentially welded two 10-rounders together.

I also did a 25- or 30-rounder, but in-canon it would probably be issued in a much more limited capacity than its shorter counterparts.

[Holy Empire of Avalon]

First time posting in the discussion, but I figured this would be a well enough place to ask for input.

What's everyone's ideas of equipping mounted infantry with "perfect pairs" - that is to say issuing them rifles and pistols that take the same ammunition.

I was thinking of doing such for the mounted infantry of this nation due to the fact that they are used for intelligence/reconnaissance operations where resupply can be very difficult as well as that it would simplify logistics.

The calibers I am thinking would be .45 Long Colt for standard rifles and then plenty of revolvers shoot the round, then probably .45-70 for the DMR role (a handgun that shoots that would be hard to find); the only real issue I see in trying to implement such an idea is that the forces use shotguns as well as rifles and any significant shotgun round would just be Hell to try and shoot out of a pistol.

So is the idea useless or is there anyway to implement this logic, simply logistics, while still keeping versatility of arms?

[Purpelia]

First time posting in the discussion, but I figured this would be a well enough place to ask for input.

What's everyone's ideas of equipping mounted infantry with "perfect pairs" - that is to say issuing them rifles and pistols that take the same ammunition.

I was thinking of doing such for the mounted infantry of this nation due to the fact that they are used for intelligence/reconnaissance operations where resupply can be very difficult as well as that it would simplify logistics.

The calibers I am thinking would be .45 Long Colt for standard rifles and then plenty of revolvers shoot the round, then probably .45-70 for the DMR role (a handgun that shoots that would be hard to find); the only real issue I see in trying to implement such an idea is that the forces use shotguns as well as rifles and any significant shotgun round would just be Hell to try and shoot out of a pistol.

So is the idea useless or is there anyway to implement this logic, simply logistics, while still keeping versatility of arms?

Unless this is a wild west thing and you are going with a lever rifle + revolver combo I think it's dumb. Anything before that and black powder just makes things massively different and everything after that you'll end up with a stupidly underpowered rifle or a uselessly overpowered handgun.

[Holy Empire of Avalon]

First time posting in the discussion, but I figured this would be a well enough place to ask for input.

What's everyone's ideas of equipping mounted infantry with "perfect pairs" - that is to say issuing them rifles and pistols that take the same ammunition.

I was thinking of doing such for the mounted infantry of this nation due to the fact that they are used for intelligence/reconnaissance operations where resupply can be very difficult as well as that it would simplify logistics.

The calibers I am thinking would be .45 Long Colt for standard rifles and then plenty of revolvers shoot the round, then probably .45-70 for the DMR role (a handgun that shoots that would be hard to find); the only real issue I see in trying to implement such an idea is that the forces use shotguns as well as rifles and any significant shotgun round would just be Hell to try and shoot out of a pistol.

So is the idea useless or is there anyway to implement this logic, simply logistics, while still keeping versatility of arms?

Unless this is a wild west thing and you are going with a lever rifle + revolver combo I think it's dumb. Anything before that and black powder just makes things massively different and everything after that you'll end up with a stupidly underpowered rifle or a uselessly overpowered handgun.

I was figuring any time period, but likely using lever actions since those seem to be the easiest to do this idea with.

So you do not believe there to be a benefit in such an idea?

[Crookfur]

First time posting in the discussion, but I figured this would be a well enough place to ask for input.

What's everyone's ideas of equipping mounted infantry with "perfect pairs" - that is to say issuing them rifles and pistols that take the same ammunition.

I was thinking of doing such for the mounted infantry of this nation due to the fact that they are used for intelligence/reconnaissance operations where resupply can be very difficult as well as that it would simplify logistics.

The calibers I am thinking would be .45 Long Colt for standard rifles and then plenty of revolvers shoot the round, then probably .45-70 for the DMR role (a handgun that shoots that would be hard to find); the only real issue I see in trying to implement such an idea is that the forces use shotguns as well as rifles and any significant shotgun round would just be Hell to try and shoot out of a pistol.

So is the idea useless or is there anyway to implement this logic, simply logistics, while still keeping versatility of arms?

If it's the latter half of the 19th century and you can live with the range limitations of. 45 long colt/scholfeild then a pistol and a Lever action long arm in the same calibre could work although the true ideal would be a Lever action in. 45-60.

However once you hit the 1890s or so the performance improvements smoke less powder and spritzer bullets give rifle ammo widen the gap too much for it to be if much use.

[Don River Region]

How would you organize the use of flying cars?

Right now I'm thinking of the concept of something like the PAL Z as being used as the primary vehicle for my nation's light shock infantry. The idea being that the infantry has a combination of limited training on emergency operations but mainly uses a bit of artificial intelligence to navigate in the air.

But after this I'm a bit at a loss as to what role should they serve or be committed toward.

[Purpelia]

How would you organize the use of flying cars?

Right now I'm thinking of the concept of something like the PAL Z as being used as the primary vehicle for my nation's light shock infantry. The idea being that the infantry has a combination of limited training on emergency operations but mainly uses a bit of artificial intelligence to navigate in the air.

But after this I'm a bit at a loss as to what role should they serve or be committed toward.

We already have military flying cars.

[Kazarogkai]

First time posting in the discussion, but I figured this would be a well enough place to ask for input.

What's everyone's ideas of equipping mounted infantry with "perfect pairs" - that is to say issuing them rifles and pistols that take the same ammunition.

I was thinking of doing such for the mounted infantry of this nation due to the fact that they are used for intelligence/reconnaissance operations where resupply can be very difficult as well as that it would simplify logistics.

The calibers I am thinking would be .45 Long Colt for standard rifles and then plenty of revolvers shoot the round, then probably .45-70 for the DMR role (a handgun that shoots that would be hard to find); the only real issue I see in trying to implement such an idea is that the forces use shotguns as well as rifles and any significant shotgun round would just be Hell to try and shoot out of a pistol.

So is the idea useless or is there anyway to implement this logic, simply logistics, while still keeping versatility of arms?

If i'm on a mounted patrol id rather have an extra mag or two rather than a pistol to be honest about it. Unless this is during the black powder era and hence prior to the adoption of repeating long arms then a pistol doesn't have a tremendous amount of utility to be honest that wouldn't be realized by simply having more ammo for the the main gun. The only real reason why having both a pistol and a rifle became so popular for the most part primarily had to do with a desire to distinguish between officers/ncos and regular enlisted and alongside that cheaply equip back line units. In the era prior to repeaters though the more faster firing revolver had a significant amount of utility for especially cavalry men who like everyone else were equipped with a very slow firing main gun.

[Holy Empire of Avalon]

First time posting in the discussion, but I figured this would be a well enough place to ask for input.

What's everyone's ideas of equipping mounted infantry with "perfect pairs" - that is to say issuing them rifles and pistols that take the same ammunition.

I was thinking of doing such for the mounted infantry of this nation due to the fact that they are used for intelligence/reconnaissance operations where resupply can be very difficult as well as that it would simplify logistics.

The calibers I am thinking would be .45 Long Colt for standard rifles and then plenty of revolvers shoot the round, then probably .45-70 for the DMR role (a handgun that shoots that would be hard to find); the only real issue I see in trying to implement such an idea is that the forces use shotguns as well as rifles and any significant shotgun round would just be Hell to try and shoot out of a pistol.

So is the idea useless or is there anyway to implement this logic, simply logistics, while still keeping versatility of arms?

If i'm on a mounted patrol id rather have an extra mag or two rather than a pistol to be honest about it. Unless this is during the black powder era and hence prior to the adoption of repeating long arms then a pistol doesn't have a tremendous amount of utility to be honest that wouldn't be realized by simply having more ammo for the the main gun. The only real reason why having both a pistol and a rifle became so popular for the most part primarily had to do with a desire to distinguish between officers/ncos and regular enlisted and alongside that cheaply equip back line units. In the era prior to repeaters though the more faster firing revolver had a significant amount of utility for especially cavalry men who like everyone else were equipped with a very slow firing main gun.

Thank you for the input, these are true points, however my thought was for the pistols to be used in the case of close quarters battle, in other words urban fighting and the sort.

My experience thus far has been that rifles are pretty tough, but if it does screw up you are out for awhile (while your buddies keep dumping lead into the targets you took the pain staking time to staple up there no less!) and it is pretty hard to break a revolver. So I figured these data points combined with the theory that the pistol and rifle having the same ammunition would eliminate the crappy situation of "Damn, no ammunition" for either firearm so long as you had the base ammunition they both use.

I do however see the drawbacks, in no way am I arguing this "cowboy" approach is the most efficient as far as the weapons go. After all a modern magazine capable rifle can hold anywhere from 30 to 100 or even possibly 150 rounds, and semi automatic pistols can certainly get higher than six rounds.

I reckon I should restate my question, obviously this tactic requires rethinking on maneuverability and tactical analysis on the part of the user - there is no contest to that point - however is the benefit to logistics that recognizable?

To outline better the force using this strategic ideology, its the C.S. Round Table - they go by the Knights among many names - who are solely mounted infantry. They specialize entirely in mounted and dismounted combat, fighting in a style that one could say is a blend of how U.S. Army Cavalry and American Law Enforcement would fight. Either from inside their vehicles or using the vehicle as cover. Thus by nature they are never too far away from their fighting vehicles, which does offer them the strategic benefit over standard infantry to bring much more equipment per man.

[Crookfur]

So they are basically current day mechanised/armoured infantry...

Any attempt at commonality would involve limiting the effectiveness of your rifle drastically, particularly if facing peer level forces with any kind of post Ww1 body armour.

The only way you might get close to this kind of concept would be some sort extrapolation of PDW type weapons although with them you would be facing range limitations that you would need to cover with more machine guns and DMRs which would eat any logistic benefits resulting from having a main weapon and sidearm in the same cartridge.

[The Manticoran Empire]

First time posting in the discussion, but I figured this would be a well enough place to ask for input.

What's everyone's ideas of equipping mounted infantry with "perfect pairs" - that is to say issuing them rifles and pistols that take the same ammunition.

I was thinking of doing such for the mounted infantry of this nation due to the fact that they are used for intelligence/reconnaissance operations where resupply can be very difficult as well as that it would simplify logistics.

The calibers I am thinking would be .45 Long Colt for standard rifles and then plenty of revolvers shoot the round, then probably .45-70 for the DMR role (a handgun that shoots that would be hard to find); the only real issue I see in trying to implement such an idea is that the forces use shotguns as well as rifles and any significant shotgun round would just be Hell to try and shoot out of a pistol.

So is the idea useless or is there anyway to implement this logic, simply logistics, while still keeping versatility of arms?

Why not just use modern ammo like the .308 or. 223?

[Fordorsia]

[Manokan Republic]

First time posting in the discussion, but I figured this would be a well enough place to ask for input.

What's everyone's ideas of equipping mounted infantry with "perfect pairs" - that is to say issuing them rifles and pistols that take the same ammunition.

I was thinking of doing such for the mounted infantry of this nation due to the fact that they are used for intelligence/reconnaissance operations where resupply can be very difficult as well as that it would simplify logistics.

The calibers I am thinking would be .45 Long Colt for standard rifles and then plenty of revolvers shoot the round, then probably .45-70 for the DMR role (a handgun that shoots that would be hard to find); the only real issue I see in trying to implement such an idea is that the forces use shotguns as well as rifles and any significant shotgun round would just be Hell to try and shoot out of a pistol.

So is the idea useless or is there anyway to implement this logic, simply logistics, while still keeping versatility of arms?

The primary reason why this wouldn't be practical is that the ammunition for a rifle is usually substantially more powerful than that of a pistol, or you would have to severely weaken the rifle to make it use much weaker and shorter ranged pistol rounds. You are better off with a purpose built pistol and rifle than a gun designed to use both bullets. It could be useful for a lever action or something similiar, but in reality it's best just to go with a purpose built pistol and rifle optimized for their specific uses. Unless your main rifle is a submachine gun there is no real point.

For security forces, it might make sense, if the primary weapon used armor piercing rounds, like 9mm armor piercing rounds in an uzi that in a pinch could shared ammunition with their pistol or something like this. To my knowledge the russians do this with the PP-2000, which is pretty similiar to a pistol in it's own right, or the germans with the MP7 and their pistol, or the FN Five Seven and P90. These are more practical, but would not be useful for a regular soldier given the lack of range, barrier penetration and general stopping power performance. It's really only viable for select close range applications, like for a tank driver or something, or close quarters combat for select special forces operations, maybe by police etc.

[Manokan Republic]

How would you organize the use of flying cars?

Right now I'm thinking of the concept of something like the PAL Z as being used as the primary vehicle for my nation's light shock infantry. The idea being that the infantry has a combination of limited training on emergency operations but mainly uses a bit of artificial intelligence to navigate in the air.

But after this I'm a bit at a loss as to what role should they serve or be committed toward.

Well basic logistics capabilities would be enhanced by being able to fly over obstacles like mountains and the like, and you would benefit from being able to simply fly over IED's and land mines, but ultimately it would probably by the same as ordinary vehicles, just more of them could fly. Most likely the altitude would be limited, so hovering close to the ground would make a lot of sense, or even driving large parts of the way to save on fuel/avoid getting shot at. The higher altitude you are the easier it is to see you, and thus shoot at you, and helicopters and such usually land some distance away from combat to avoid being shot down. It would be better to fly low to the ground to avoid getting shot at, like a hover car most of the time or something.

[Manokan Republic]

I am not convinced. Just looking at existing stuff like the AVS-36 the small one is clearly 10 and the large one 15.

(Image)
15 rounds of 7.62x54R take up a lot of space.

Looks like 10-15 to me.

10-round magazines are the standard for the service rifle, the larger mags were originally intended to be 20-rounders, but 15 is probably a more accurate estimate considering I essentially welded two 10-rounders together.

I also did a 25- or 30-rounder, but in-canon it would probably be issued in a much more limited capacity than its shorter counterparts.

Well those are single column magazines, and yours in theory could be doublestack. For some reason the russians only ever made a handful of doublestack magazines, likely due to reliability reasons but they do exist for more modern Dragnuv weapons. A 25-30 round magazine, or even 20 round one is viable, but would be different than the original single-stack magazines the russians used.

[Purpelia]

If I understand correctly rimmed ammo makes double stack magazines tricky. Not impossible but tricky.

[Fordorsia]

[Purpelia]

Gold plated glock. Y/N?

[Republic of Penguinian Astronautia]

I like it, but what is it, exactly?

Variations of Sevvania's WWII-era service rifle (officially designated as "Rifle, Semi-Automatic, 7.62x54mmR, Outlander Model 1940"). The "Mark I" at top is shown in both grenadier and sharpshooter configurations alongside its bayonet. Marks II through IV were explorations in automatic rifles/machine carbines, with the last two of those iterations largely intended for paratroopers (the local BAR-equivalent being deemed too cumbersome to jump with).

Whe not put a sharpshooter sight on the grenadier version? It might add versatility. I especially like the one with the finger grooved for grip on the front of the magazine. It has a sort of Thompson-style retro look about it. Also, what are the pouches on the stock?

[Sevvania]

Variations of Sevvania's WWII-era service rifle (officially designated as "Rifle, Semi-Automatic, 7.62x54mmR, Outlander Model 1940"). The "Mark I" at top is shown in both grenadier and sharpshooter configurations alongside its bayonet. Marks II through IV were explorations in automatic rifles/machine carbines, with the last two of those iterations largely intended for paratroopers (the local BAR-equivalent being deemed too cumbersome to jump with).

Whe not put a sharpshooter sight on the grenadier version? It might add versatility. I especially like the one with the finger grooved for grip on the front of the magazine. It has a sort of Thompson-style retro look about it. Also, what are the pouches on the stock?

The grenade-launching muzzle would be capable of fitting onto both the standard rifle and the marksman version, but they're shown seperately here because the roles of grenadier and sharpshooter would typically be split between two different members of the squad.

The pouches are for additional ammo, though I should probably enlarge them to accomodate stripper clips.

Gold plated glock. Y/N?

Will there be wood

[Purpelia]

Whe not put a sharpshooter sight on the grenadier version? It might add versatility. I especially like the one with the finger grooved for grip on the front of the magazine. It has a sort of Thompson-style retro look about it. Also, what are the pouches on the stock?

The grenade-launching muzzle would be capable of fitting onto both the standard rifle and the marksman version, but they're shown seperately here because the roles of grenadier and sharpshooter would typically be split between two different members of the squad.

The pouches are for additional ammo, though I should probably enlarge them to accomodate stripper clips.

Gold plated glock. Y/N?

Will there be wood

Not sure. I was thinking of something along the lines of gold plating the slide and having some sort of fancy ivory and gem inlays for the grips. So I guess the lower half can be made to look like it's wood in a sort of 50's fake wood plastic sort of way.