Infantry Discussion Thread part 11: Gallas Razor edition.

[Sevvania]

Two-shot and four-shot break-action handguns manufactured for the Sevvanian Army in 1900, as part of the military standardization program.

While lacking in capacity compared to contemporary revolvers, the simplicity of the First Model Army meant that it could be easily manufactured in the numbers necessary for the young nation's reforming military. Few moving parts and a sealed action also offered superior reliability and a potentially higher rate of fire. Military models were capable of accepting a detachable wire stock, which doubled as a holster.

[Manokan Republic]

I have noticed by watching the banter on threads such as these that novice players make their militaries powerful by having ridiculous amounts of stuff, say, an Australia sized country with 50 Ford carriers. My MT/PMT nation decided to take an alternate approach: designing equipment with the most over the top, awesome, cool, ridiculous, and overrated/hyped features.
To start of, the standard infantry weapon: Polymer construction, ergonomic, thumb hole grip, OICW style. Fires electronically ignited caseless telescoped rectangular 7mm General Purpose cartridges, with lead free steel cored low drake rounds, with 3-piece fragmenting copper jacket.4-1 ball tracer mix, with semi incendiary, dark ignition tracer rounds. Feeds from HK73-style linkless belt box, 150 rounds. Looks like an F2000. The Chemical energy module is a top-mounted 30mm gyro jet grenade launcher, feeding from a ten round drum magazine, which can be rotated to select different round types, such as mixed flechette-buckshot canister, smart fused HEDP/HEAB, thermobaric, and breaching slugs with faster burning propellant. The sighting system incorporates HMD, tracking point smart sight. The battery is housed in the grip. Modular. Bullpup. The quick-change chrome-lined barrel is integrally suppressed. With the MR-1 weapon system, every rifleman is a machine gunner, marksman, and grenadier. The MR-1. The last weapon wewill ever need.

The best way to make every riflemen a grenadier is to use rifle grenades, duh. Thermobaric armor piercing rifle grenades like the russian one's.

And by riflemen I mean they are all using a machine gun, maybe a stoner 63.


Oh and a good landship would be a hovercraft. Basically make a giant nuclear powered aircraft carrier, but that hovers so it can go on land. I call it, the walking battleship! It's an amphibious naval ship, designed to deploy vehicles and get close enough to the target on land to use it's railgun. A mobile land destroyer! They also serve as moving military bases. Due to the nuclear powered design, it can be constantly powering the hovercraft mechanism.

An entire fleet of amphibious naval ships. Would be pretty cool.

[Manokan Republic]

Awesome!

It does look cool and it's sad the .280 british never took off, it could have changed the whole world of guns man. A bullpup aerodynamic gun back in 1948? Dayum.

For better or for worse...

The L52 series

Looks awesome

It seems a tad heavy, but that might be on purpose, such as fully loaded with a scope. The original EM-2's were around 7.5 to 8 pounds, but that was unloaded.

[Belarutenia]

[Mispost please ignore

[Kassaran]

I know that's kind of a lot. I really appreciate anyone willing to take the job.

This really isn't the place for that...

[Belarutenia]

I know that's kind of a lot. I really appreciate anyone willing to take the job.

This really isn't the place for that...

I know. I accidently hit "reply" in the wrong thread (multiple tabs, other in seal and logo request). I tried to delete but now you replied and its just here.

[Republic of Penguinian Astronautia]

I have noticed by watching the banter on threads such as these that novice players make their militaries powerful by having ridiculous amounts of stuff, say, an Australia sized country with 50 Ford carriers. My MT/PMT nation decided to take an alternate approach: designing equipment with the most over the top, awesome, cool, ridiculous, and overrated/hyped features.
To start of, the standard infantry weapon: Polymer construction, ergonomic, thumb hole grip, OICW style. Fires electronically ignited caseless telescoped rectangular 7mm General Purpose cartridges, with lead free steel cored low drag rounds, with 3-piece fragmenting copper jacket.4-1 ball tracer mix, with semi incendiary, dark ignition tracer rounds. Feeds from HK73-style linkless belt box, 150 rounds. Looks like an F2000. The Chemical energy module is a top-mounted 30mm gyro jet grenade launcher, feeding from a ten round drum magazine, which can be rotated to select different round types, such as mixed flechette-buckshot canister, smart fused HEDP/HEAB, thermobaric, and breaching slugs with faster burning propellant. The sighting system incorporates HMD, tracking point smart sight. The battery is housed in the grip. The gas valve can be altered for extreme environments and to launch bullets at subsonic speeds for suppressed ops. Modular. Bullpup. The quick-change chrome-lined barrel is integrally suppressed. With the MR-1 weapon system, every rifleman is a machine gunner, marksman, and grenadier. The MR-1. The last weapon wewill ever need.

The best way to make every riflemen a grenadier is to use rifle grenades, duh. Thermobaric armor piercing rifle grenades like the russian one's.

And by riflemen I mean they are all using a machine gun, maybe a stoner 63.


Oh and a good landship would be a hovercraft. Basically make a giant nuclear powered aircraft carrier, but that hovers so it can go on land. I call it, the walking battleship! It's an amphibious naval ship, designed to deploy vehicles and get close enough to the target on land to use it's railgun. A mobile land destroyer! They also serve as moving military bases. Due to the nuclear powered design, it can be constantly powering the hovercraft mechanism.

An entire fleet of amphibious naval ships. Would be pretty cool.

Yeah, this rifle can launch rifle grenades.
I wasn't serious about my nation using land ships. Still funny. It has a gyrojet grenade launcher because gyrojet are cool.

[Purpelia]

Can I interest you in a landship destroyer that fires atomic shaped charge tipped cruise missiles as the equivalent of a torpedo boat to hunt landships?

yes!

See here than: https://www.nationstates.net/nation=pur ... /id=269569
Look up Ymir.

[Kazarogkai]

.280 can keep trucking forever. There are still large armies that stay on .308.

What about a .250 caliber bullet with roughly the powderload of a .308?

[Austrasien]

.280 can keep trucking forever. There are still large armies that stay on .308.

What about a .250 caliber bullet with roughly the powderload of a .308?

No, that is obviously absurd.

[Kazarogkai]

What about a .250 caliber bullet with roughly the powderload of a .308?

No, that is obviously absurd.

Why so? The caliber is barely larger than a .223.

[Crookfur]

.280 can keep trucking forever. There are still large armies that stay on .308.

What about a .250 caliber bullet with roughly the powderload of a .308?

25-308 exists as a wildcat but isn't at all popular as its pretty much identical to the 1920s 257 Roberts which is available commercially as are about a bazillion other wildcats and comercial cartridges that occupy that space.
None of them have been militarily successful as you start running into issues related to an overbore cartridge ie faster wear and tear and the need for long barrels to get the best out of them.

[Manokan Republic]

.280 can keep trucking forever. There are still large armies that stay on .308.

What about a .250 caliber bullet with roughly the powderload of a .308?

The 6.5mm creedmoor would be better, which is slightly less powerful and uses a slightly larger bullet, and it's actually used by U.S. special forces, with the intent to switch over to it as their primary cartridge, so that seems more practical in that vain. The 6.5mm LSAT is a caseless variant of this, or a polymer cased version which is slightly lighter weight and allows for a slightly better firing system, and so that seems like the ideal configuration of the cartridge right now imo.

[Kazarogkai]

What about a .250 caliber bullet with roughly the powderload of a .308?

1. 25-308 exists as a wildcat but isn't at all popular as its pretty much identical to the 1920s 257 Roberts which is available commercially as are about a bazillion other wildcats and comercial cartridges that occupy that space.
2 None of them have been militarily successful as you start running into issues related to an overbore cartridge ie faster wear and tear and the need for long barrels to get the best out of them.

1. Mine would have come out sometime between 1900-1910 and was a local indigenous development hence that shouldn't be too much of an issue.

2. Thank god I had the foresight to give the last major bolt action of mine in service the S-40 a floating heavy barrel. Hence why despite only being about 38 in, roughly around the size of a jungle carbine, it weighs a total of 10 lbs fully loaded up rather than the 8.5 lb one might have expected. The reason I did that was oddly enough was because I was terrified such a small rifle would have horrific recoil hence it needed some weight to keep it manageable and well pretty much all that weight went into the barrel. Fortuitous I guess?

Now one might be wondering the overall reasons for why I adopted such a strange bullet. Well the reasoning is rather simple.... the Kaza were obsessed. Specifically they were obsessed with the idea of having a bullet that not only was hard hitting, yes they believed in that myth full heartily, but also accurate beyond all measures having as little bullet drop over normal combat ranges as possible. The best way they figured they could do this was via extreme muzzle velocity packing as much powder as they could behind a relatively, for the period, small bullet as they could. A true intermediate cartridge seemed a bit anachronistic so this seemed like the second best option. Thankfully the Geneva conventions were never really a thing in this world or at the very least the Kaza never bothered signing up calling out Russia for it's s*** and telling them to stick it up theirs. Hence soft/hollow point bullets are an option that should make up for the lack of noticeable bullet tumble.

I just want to say thanks for providing me that bit of intel about the 257 Roberts, all this time I had been making use of the Arisaka's 6.5mm bullet as my main informant on the overall performance of my bullet so that helped a lot. I was hoping that I could get atleast 2800 ft/s bullet but I didn't know if It would truly make it.

[Crookfur]

1. 25-308 exists as a wildcat but isn't at all popular as its pretty much identical to the 1920s 257 Roberts which is available commercially as are about a bazillion other wildcats and comercial cartridges that occupy that space.
2 None of them have been militarily successful as you start running into issues related to an overbore cartridge ie faster wear and tear and the need for long barrels to get the best out of them.

1. Mine would have come out sometime between 1900-1910 and was a local indigenous development hence that shouldn't be too much of an issue.

2. Thank god I had the foresight to give the last major bolt action of mine in service the S-40 has a floating heavy barrel. Hence why despite only being about 38 in, roughly around the size of a jungle carbine, it weighs a total of 10 lbs fully loaded up rather than the 8.5 lb one might have expected. The reason I did that was oddly enough was because I was terrified such a small rifle would have horrific recoil hence it needed some weight to keep it manageable and well pretty much all that weight went into the barrel. Fortuitous I guess?

Now one might be wondering the overall reasons for why I adopted such a strange bullet. Well the reasoning is rather simple.... the Kaza were obsessed. Specifically they were obsessed with the idea of having a bullet that not only was hard hitting, yes they believed in that myth full heatedly, but also accurate beyond all measures having as little bullet drop over normal combat ranges as possible. The best way they figured they could do this was via extreme muzzle velocity packing as much powder as they could behind a relatively, for the period, small bullet as they could. A true intermediate cartridge seemed a bit anachronistic so this seemed like the second best option. Thankfully the Geneva conventions were never really a thing in this world or at the very least the Kaza never bothered signing up calling out Russia for it's s*** and telling them to stick it up theirs. Hence soft/hollow point bullets are an option that should make up for the lack of noticeable bullet tumble.

I just want to say thanks for providing me that bit of intel about the 257 Roberts, all this time I had been making use of the Arisaka's 6.5mm bullet as my main informant on the overall performance of my bullet so that helped a lot. I was hoping that I could get atleast 2800 ft/s bullet but I didn't know if It would truly make it.

Weight and recoil aren't going to be major issues as you are going to be chucking relatively light bullets, the issues will be excessive muzzle blast, particularly from carbine length barrels and possibly fairly rapid barrel wear and throat erosion at the higher end of loadings in this area.

100-110grains at just over 2800fps would be a pretty comfortable load both to shoot and for the life of the gun. You could go faster or heavier but then you start to enter high wear territory and needing stricter quality control to avoid over pressure batches.

It's pretty much in the ball park of where my 6.25mm navy airs.

[Republic of Penguinian Astronautia]

yes!

See here than: https://www.nationstates.net/nation=pur ... /id=269569
Look up Ymir.

The Links for Ymir don't work. Is the aerogavins thing making fun of combatreform?

[Purpelia]

See here than: https://www.nationstates.net/nation=pur ... /id=269569
Look up Ymir.

The Links for Ymir don't work. Is the aerogavins thing making fun of combatreform?

Dam. I have to look and see if I have them backed up.

Either way it's basically a huge ISU-152 lookalike with heavily sloped armor and a giant 22cm main gun that fires missiles as long as the barrel is (RPG-7 style) out the front. And these than have an atomic shaped charge in them and they just cruise until they sight a landship and dive onto it to deliver a blast that can literally melt entire MBT's into a puddle of molten metal at the bottom of a crater.

[Fordorsia]

Did you forget when I scaled Ymir up to a person and it was the size of a tankette

[New Visayan Islands]

Hypothetical: for a totally-not-FFDO, how viable would a suppressed SMG with subsonic ammo be? In this scenario, I'm thinking MP5SD with 9x19 Luger.

[Crookfur]

Hypothetical: for a totally-not-FFDO, how viable would a suppressed SMG with subsonic ammo be? In this scenario, I'm thinking MP5SD with 9x19 Luger.

A full MP5 is likely too big and unwieldy if you are restricting them to the flight deck.

Handguns are probably the limit.

[New Visayan Islands]

Hypothetical: for a totally-not-FFDO, how viable would a suppressed SMG with subsonic ammo be? In this scenario, I'm thinking MP5SD with 9x19 Luger.

A full MP5 is likely too big and unwieldy if you are restricting them to the flight deck.

Handguns are probably the limit.

Even the ones with the retractable stock?

[Crookfur]

A full MP5 is likely too big and unwieldy if you are restricting them to the flight deck.

Handguns are probably the limit.

Even the ones with the retractable stock?

Yup, your average comercial aircraft has a flight deck where most of it is in touching range of the pilot or copilot.

Consider it being like the interior of a large 4 door saloon/sedan.

You need something that is fast to deploy and can be carried on the person or in the arm of thier chair so a compact hand gun is likely the only workable solution.

[Manokan Republic]

Hypothetical: for a totally-not-FFDO, how viable would a suppressed SMG with subsonic ammo be? In this scenario, I'm thinking MP5SD with 9x19 Luger.

It's not impossible if you have a handgun as your primary weapon and the submachine gun as the backup to be tucked away somewhere and share the same ammunition, but something akin to an uzi, like a pistol submachine gun, would work pretty well and be carriable on your person, perhaps alongside a handgun.

The russian PP-2000 and Israeli Micro uzi are probably the two best 9mm submachine gun pistols out there as of right now, both in terms of things like reliability and general size. The mp7 is great but it uses another caliber that is armor piercing, perhaps not the best thing for a plane, but still doable. A 9mm mp7 would work if you're willing to roleplay that you changed the cartridge. As well, a fully automatic pistol is a viable option, like a glock 18, but they're very hard to control in real life; something like a full auto HK USP, if it existed, would make more sense.


Another thing you can easily carry on board with you is grenades. So a couple of flashbangs/tear gas grenades can be stuffed in like a utility belt, and for a really good shoot out you've got full auto micro uzis and flashbangs to allow you NLOS attacks, assuming it lasts that long, or you're worried about being ambushed outside of the plane etc.

[Sycar]

I'm looking to change my military's intermediate cartridge and the current standard cartridge is 6.8x43mm SPC. Are there any irl rounds (current or historical) that y'all would recommend? If it helps, my current standard issue rifle is a long-stroke piston operated, 3-lug rotating bolt, modular carbine with a 14.5 inch barrel.

[Sevvania]

I'm looking to change my military's intermediate cartridge and the current standard cartridge is 6.8x43mm SPC. Are there any irl rounds (current or historical) that y'all would recommend? If it helps, my current standard issue rifle is a long-stroke piston operated, 3-lug rotating bolt, modular carbine with a 14.5 inch barrel.

By the time you adopt an intermediate you're pretty much set. There wouldn't be much reason to replace it in-canon, unless this is a full-blown retcon.