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Infantry Discussion Thread part 11: Gallas Razor edition.

A place to put national factbooks, embassy exchanges, and other information regarding the nations of the world. [In character]

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Austrasien
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Postby Austrasien » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:12 am

Manokan Republic wrote:An interesting idea for a squad, more of a generic squad, would be to have a 11 man squad, with a 3 man heavy machine gun team (something akin to an AGS-30 30mm grenade launcher or .50 caliber machine gun), and then two four man fireteams for an 11 man squad, or 12 man if you want to tack on an extra marksmen, sergeant etc.

For a 9 man squad you could have two three man fireteams, but they usually aren't as effective, mostly due to a lack of symmetry for fire and maneuver.


No this is a bad idea(!)

These weapons have dramatically longer range than normal infantry weapons and consequently their potential to create overlapping fields of fire and especially to achieve flanking fire (the best kind of fire) are also far greater. Even at the maximum permissible dispersion for a squad, they will not be able to take advantage of this potential at all because they will all essentially be firing forward at any significant fraction of their effective range. In other words, the lateral dispersion of heavy weapons should be as large as possible given the terrain restrictions, which favours independent weapons teams. They should not be overly worried about providing their own cover during movement because the main purpose of such powerful weapons is to support the rest of the unit, the cover they need to relocate can be provided by the squads they support. They should only be relocating when they can no longer fire effectively from their current position anyway, which during an attack, probably means the unit has already advanced and pushed back the opponent, so movement will be comparatively safe. It is not necessary or desirable for them to advance under fire the way a squad does because they do not need to close with the enemy to deliver effective fire, by nature. Choosing a position where they can deliver effective fire from is among the most basic requirements for effective use of heavy weaponry.

In a platonic formation, the best place for heavy weapons is on the flanks of the unit.
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Gallia-
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Postby Gallia- » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:23 am

Kanugues Wed wrote:Obviously this means we need a “war rifle” (assaults are part of battles, and battles are parts of wars...) firing .50 BMG.


Image

Galla probably does something like this with M107 if only to bunch through hard cover like masonry walls.

If I knew more about 12.7x55mm I'd maybe consider making a version for Galla.

Prosorusiya wrote:and Lisa (fox).


lmao yes

1) foxy woxy :3
2) lmao that

Husseinarti wrote:>the marines are still retaining the m249 for when they need real suppression duties
>everyone still posts that the m27 replaced the m249


the usmc is just trying to emulate their betters:

Image

america at its best

they are too afeared to go back to All M16 Era of mcnamaraland
Last edited by Gallia- on Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:38 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Austrasien
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Postby Austrasien » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:39 am

Gallia- wrote:Galla probably does something like this with M107 if only to bunch through hard cover like masonry walls.

If I knew more about 12.7x55mm I'd maybe consider making a version for Galla.


Image

The weapons squad in Austrasian platoons can swap out their medium MGs (on tripods!) for heavy MGs on bipods, the former being preferred for open/long range conditions where volume of fire at a distance is the priority and the latter for urban/close conditions where barrier penetration is the overriding concern.
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Postby Gallia- » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:46 am

Sorry I meant in the sense of these guys:

Image

Weapons teams/squads in Galla have M60s in mechanized infantry units (because Bushmaster or Dover Devil) and XM307/312 in light infantry (because no Bushmaster) for defeating T H I C C barriers. However that is a T H I C C gun and Ukraini Stronk god bless. I might consider XM806 or -312 for supplementing the M60 in mechanized infantry units for when you need to get out of the Bradley and it can't come inside the house with you because it is an outdoor animal not an indoor one and has yet to be housebroken as a result. I'm not sure yet but I have like 11,000 line unit TO&Es anyway. GPHMG is a bit too heavy for true dismounted use and XM312/806 can almost be used by three people I'm sure.

Since the weapons carrier is literally a Bradley it probably has more than adequate shelf space to store a few big guns and their big ammunition. But they already have the M60s so alas.

But I was really just mulling the idea of a shorty/selective fire 12.7x99mm "assault rifle" with a bipod for commandos in urban combat, like the ASh-12.7.

OTOH that's going down the path of the Cult of the Commando but it could always be a Garage Engineer effort by a few machine shop talented SFs working off of their own paychecks I guess. Or just paying out of pocket to a gun company.
Last edited by Gallia- on Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:22 am, edited 6 times in total.

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Kanugues Wed
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Postby Kanugues Wed » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:43 am

I can’t belive my shitty joke resulted in actual discussion this is the dumbest shit I’ve seen today
Sure, we might look communist, but we are legitimately a democratic country.

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Postby Gallia- » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:20 am

That's because you have no idea what you're talking about and stumbled across a recurring good idea, born in the 1990s in its most recent incarnation, by complete accident.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASh-12.7
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSh-12
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VKS_sniper_rifle

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrett_XM109

It would be akin if someone who didn't know what HESCO barriers were to show up in this thread and mention "gabions but lined with sandbags" or something equally ignorant.


Is it possible to quantify the amount of acoustic pressure it takes for a soldier to put his head down? And more importantly is this already done in some manner; like is there a table of the pressure it takes for a "combat veteran" and a "green" trooper to want to duck/become neutralized by small arms fire? This is important because it means Galla might be able to define suppression effects based on the weapon's downrange performance rather than something generic/stupid like "one round within one meter every one second" or whatever Lyras told me n years ago was the ADF's standard for "suppression". I read a thing about this a while ago but they concluded with only that "more testing is required" to establish baseline characteristics of different pressure profiles and effects on ground troops.

I guess it means I can tailor the weapons team TO&E of light infantry to produce maximum neutralization effects and give the rifle teams more grenades and ammo and maybe Colt MARS style assault submachine guns.

The only way I can think of doing this is dragging troops out of a barracks, telling them to dig holes in the ground, wear this pressure measurement dildo, and having experimenters shooting a variety of guns at them until they duck. Then you set up targets with pressure sensors set for different sound levels, so once you're shooting close enough with a particular weapon, you turn off the robot machine gun that is shooting at you, giving you a simulated experience of suppressing a target that shoots back, but without actual danger of being thrown into a real combat. I guess you'd need to set it up so that the pressure profiles are actually matching something apparently close to a single value, and it's not like a guy is ducking his head because a 5.56mm bullet passed 6 inches from his ear despite producing 4/5ths the sound level of a 7.62x51mm passing a foot away and barely noticed, or whatever and it turns out the guy is Just So Swole he is actually ranging the distance of the specific ammunition after determining caliber by the sound of particular firearm being used (think M16 vs. M60) rather than a single "duck" pressure level. But in that case you still just need to make one table for each rifle/machine gun rather than one table for "suppressive effects" TBH.

At the very least it's the most effective means of testing if not the cheapest or the safest. Safety is for chumps when there is SCIENCE! to be done, though.
Last edited by Gallia- on Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:43 am, edited 6 times in total.

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Austrasien
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Postby Austrasien » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:38 am

Zhouran wrote:
Free-Don wrote:You could start using Hk417s but unless your end goal is to go back to battle rifles then it doesn't make much sense as it just eliminates the fire support component of the squad.

My military has always used both assault rifles (standard service) and battle rifles (as automatic rifles and DMRs). Also apparently a 2008 British Army study showed that regarding the effectiveness of suppressive fire in Afghanistan, 5.56mm weapons usually had poorer results compared to 7.62mm weapons:
Many of the proponents of 5.56 mm ammunition argue that it is better at suppressing an enemy than 7.62 mm ammunition due to the higher volume of fire it permits. However, recent research conducted by the MoD2 shows that a near miss from a large calibre 7.62 mm or 12.7 mm round has a much greater suppressive effect than 5.56 mm round. Larger calibre bullets, with increased noise and visible effect, also suppress when they miss by a greater distance than 5.56 mm ammunition. These findings are supported by anecdotal feedback: ‘The Taliban ignore 5.56 mm, are worried by 7.62 mm and fear 12.7 mm rounds.’


Is it really necessary to call a rifle a "battle rifle" :eyebrow:
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Postby Zhouran » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:43 am

In regards to GPHMG (looking at you, Kord), how useful would such a large weapon be in urban combat? My gunners use the usual 7.62mm GPMG (or .338 GPMGs for that additional firepower), but how practical would a GPHMG be in urban terrain?
Image

And since I mentioned .338, does the LWMMG actually have a potential use in the US military? It'd be pretty nice to have a GPMG that uses a caliber larger than 7.62 NATO/7.62×54mmR and being portable compared to an HMG.

Austrasien wrote:Is it really necessary to call a rifle a "battle rifle" :eyebrow:

Yes

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Postby Austrasien » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:49 am

Zhouran wrote:Yes


Tacticool plz go.
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Postby Zhouran » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:50 am

Austrasien wrote:
Zhouran wrote:Yes


Tacticool plz go.

Not tacticool, just autistic with words

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Postby Gallia- » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:57 am

Zhouran wrote:In regards to GPHMG (looking at you, Kord), how useful would such a large weapon be in urban combat? My gunners use the usual 7.62mm GPMG (or .338 GPMGs for that additional firepower), but how practical would a GPHMG be in urban terrain?
(Image)

And since I mentioned .338, does the LWMMG actually have a potential use in the US military? It'd be pretty nice to have a GPMG that uses a caliber larger than 7.62 NATO/7.62×54mmR and being portable compared to an HMG.


"GPHMG" is a specific weapon not a class of weapon. It's sort of redundant for obvious reasons (a machine gun cannot really be "heavy" and "general purpose"). Kord is just a HMG. It is useful for breaking down masonry walls and punching through Dagestanis. It is literally the opposite of .338 NM. 6P50-1 and 6P62 exist because the Russians have a lot of experience during the Soviet Civil War/"post-Soviet conflicts" in combat in urban terrain (much more than NATO does fighting against Ba'athists) so they made Kord. It's not actually unique in its class anyway: Kord is basically a skeletal gun, like NSV or Dover Devil. It's only "light" compared to the world's most common piece-of-shit: the M2 Browning. It's actually comparable in mass to Dover Devil and CIS 50 MG, shaving only 5 kg from CIS 50MG and being 5 kg heavier than ARAADCOM's baby. Which puts it in the middle of "modern" HMGs.

LWMMG is worthless and a perfect exemplar of the actually rare instance of people trying to fight the last war. In this case, the generals won't have it (they will prefer Second Coming of XM312 or XM806) and the gun designers are too ignorant of how war works to actually predict the future needs, so they try to fight Afghanistan many years after people have been telling them that Afghanistan is the opposite of the future. And then they still go to AUSA meetings talking about 6.9x69mm cased telescoping or whatever and how it will be a "game changer" when it's basically a rehashing of some random ass wildcat cartridge from the 1980s or whatever. It's only appealing to TFB and SOF, who share the common interest and common luxury of being able to not really need either industrial mass production of weapons and being so small in inventory requirements they can replace everything in a single order to a medium sized manufacturing firm.

C'est le culte commando.

A future urban combat GPMG will be either 7.62x51mm (or some 6-7mm medium that is invented in the meantime) or 12.7x99/12.7x108mm. The former offers the best compromise between ammunition weight/bulk and barrier penetration. The latter sacrifices the ammunition stored for maximum barrier defeating without getting into clip- or magazine-fed weapons of the 20mm class like Grasshopper/Akan m/40 that are completely worthless IRL (let alone WW2 where they ostensibly had a use).

For the same reason the U.S. Army wheels around a Stryker or a Humvee any time it needs to chew up a wall, the Russians wheel up a robot or jeep with .50 cal ammo cans stacked on the side and a pair of machine gun teams start funneling rounds from it with runners. The difference is that the Russian .50 cal attracts much less attention because while it is loud it is not too visible and entirely possible to go an entire firefight without being shot at or even reliably located. It is true for a Humvee or a Stryker, too, but much less certain.

Zhouran wrote:
Austrasien wrote:Is it really necessary to call a rifle a "battle rifle" :eyebrow:

Yes


You spelled "no" wrong. Must be a typo.

Zhouran wrote:
Austrasien wrote:
Tacticool plz go.

Not tacticool, just autistic with words


That's rude and the actual original terminology is just "assault rifle". "Battle rifle" didn't exist before the Internet and the rise of the amateur-auteur. There is no real reason to differentiate between an M14 and an M16 by "bore diameter" anyway.
Last edited by Gallia- on Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Zhouran » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:14 am

Gallia- wrote:6P50-1 and 6P62 exist because the Russians have a lot of experience during the Soviet Civil War/"post-Soviet conflicts" in combat in urban terrain (much more than NATO does fighting against Ba'athists) so they made Kord.

I thought NATO was the one with better experience in urban warfare?

It's not actually unique in its class anyway: Kord is basically a skeletal gun, like NSV or Dover Devil. It's only "light" compared to the world's most common piece-of-shit: the M2 Browning. It's actually comparable in mass to Dover Devil and CIS 50 MG, shaving only 5 kg from CIS 50MG and being 5 kg heavier than ARAADCOM's baby. Which puts it in the middle of "modern" HMGs.

Since you mentioned Dover Devil, how come the US military didn't acquire the weapon? The US military seemed to have made requests for an M2 replacement a few times, like with the XM312 and later on the XM806, but didn't choose any successor to the Ma Deuce. Some people just say that the M2 doesn't need to be replaced since it still works.

"Battle rifle" didn't exist before the Internet and the rise of the amateur-auteur. There is no real reason to differentiate between an M14 and an M16 by "bore diameter" anyway.

Since the M14 and the M16 use different cartridge types (full-powered vs intermediate), I always differentiate the two rifle types.
Last edited by Zhouran on Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Gallia- » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:17 am

Zhouran wrote:
Gallia- wrote:6P50-1 and 6P62 exist because the Russians have a lot of experience during the Soviet Civil War/"post-Soviet conflicts" in combat in urban terrain (much more than NATO does fighting against Ba'athists) so they made Kord.

I thought NATO was the one with better experience in urban warfare?


I said "more" not "better".

The U.S. Army has a higher IQ than the Russian Army so it would probably be able to conquer Ukraine if it really wanted to. Meanwhile Russia cannot even get a land border to Crimea. Sad.

Zhouran wrote:
It's not actually unique in its class anyway: Kord is basically a skeletal gun, like NSV or Dover Devil. It's only "light" compared to the world's most common piece-of-shit: the M2 Browning. It's actually comparable in mass to Dover Devil and CIS 50 MG, shaving only 5 kg from CIS 50MG and being 5 kg heavier than ARAADCOM's baby. Which puts it in the middle of "modern" HMGs.

Since you mentioned Dover Devil, how come the US military didn't acquire the weapon?


Who_knows. Who_cares.

Zhouran wrote:The US military seemed to have made requests for an M2 replacement a few times, like with the XM312 and later on the XM806, but didn't choose any successor to the Ma Deuce. Some people just say that the M2 doesn't need to be replaced since it still works.


XM312 and its warmed over cousin XM806 both shot at half the firing rate of M2. They were significantly lighter than the M2, but they were no Second Coming of the Dover Devil, which was the same weight and just better.

The U.S. Army's IQ might be higher than Russia's, but their engineers' IQ is lower now since they are too dumb to make a proper skeletal-type gun like NSV or Dover Devil again. Which is weird considering the U.S. Army literally owns the patents to the thing!

Zhouran wrote:Since the M14 and the M16 use different cartridge types (full-powered vs intermediate), I always differentiate the two rifle types.


Then you are always wrong. Simple!
Last edited by Gallia- on Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:20 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Austrasien
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Postby Austrasien » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:24 am

Zhouran wrote:Since the M14 and the M16 use different cartridge types (full-powered vs intermediate), I always differentiate the two rifle types.


Assault rifle was coined to differentiate them from rifles.
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Tule
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Postby Tule » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:32 am

I like to call them service rifles, or just "rifles". If they're small rifles I'll call them carbines.

I'll reluctantly use the term full-power rifle if a distinction is necessary, but I'll die before using the term "battle rifle" unironically.
Last edited by Tule on Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Puzikas » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:37 am

Good god we've gone back to 2012 IDT.

MMW breaths life again!

@galla hwat asparagus do you want on 12.7x55
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Postby Tule » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:47 am

Puzikas wrote:Good god we've gone back to 2012 IDT.

MMW breaths life again!


I remember when the fate of the NSverse depended on having the right cartridge in your rifle ;_;

I miss it.
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Austrasien
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Postby Austrasien » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:07 pm

Puzikas wrote:Good god we've gone back to 2012 IDT.

MMW breaths life again!

@galla hwat asparagus do you want on 12.7x55


Uh oh, we need to get back on track.

Quick lets talk about IQ and C H Y N A
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Postby Purpelia » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:17 pm

5.5mm Purpelian best cartridge.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Postby Gallia- » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:38 pm

Tule wrote:I like to call them service rifles, or just "rifles".


"Arkebuse" is the first formally defined terminology for the "[Royal] Arsenal Pattern Arquebus", produced from the 1490s to the 1580s (it has the record for being the longest produced, although not longest mass produced, small arm in the Gallan military), and going through several phases as the Royal Army grew from being "trash heap/scrapyard of the continent" to "16th century Juche" in the span of about 70 years (really, this just meant that the regiments closest to the monarch were getting good, mass produced things). The Arsenal Pattern was supplanted by the "Kiruna Pattern Arquebus" (really, a snaphance musket), and later the "Kiruna Pattern Infantry Musket" in the 1700s, which was a .69 caliber flintlock similar to the French Charleville.

"Musket" is used as a sort of generic catch-all for Line weapons from the 16th century (~1710s) until the 1910s, when Galla remembers it still has to fight real wars, after it is caught with its knickers down by the Hazaras Tumens with Mosin-Nagant Dragoon Carbines and .45 caliber autorevolvers. Galla never actually starts a major arms production capacity until the Mongols have nearly thrown it off the continent or something and its down to manning a wire perimeter around a large shipping port while Galla crash buys ammunition from Chinese and makes and models of all sorts of rifles from domestic mfgs because Galla's ammunition production capacity isn't up to snuff to meet the demand and it let the small arms production lapse. So troops in the "Third Northern War" go into battle with the "Army Type m/1895 Lever Musket" which isn't really a musket. Nor is it really repeating, even, TBH. It's a lever action magazine fed rifle in 6.5x55mm Swedish. This is supplemented by cracking open boxes of "Army Type m/1880 Repeating Musket" which are "Krag-Jorgenssons" in the same, and "Army Type m/1865 Chamber Musket" which is a breech-loading rifle in a tapered .40 caliber rimmed cartridge slightly less powerful than the .45-70.

"Rifle" is first used with the new nomenclature system embraced by the All Curmudgeon Army: "Rifle, Caliber .265, m/05" made by Alvik Arsenal, chambered in 6.5x55mm. They pat themselves on the back before getting bounced upon by up-and-coming officers who have been mired in line infantry tactics for decades and are looking at the machine gun and learning "trigonometry" and realizing some things, but haven't quite put it all together. The entire Nation is bounced upon by actual horse tumens who sally forth from the steppe to burn and pillage and succeed in doing so for about 2 years before a very long and bloody series of counter-offensives more reminiscent of the Eastern Front of WW2 than anything in WW1 happens and the ACA pats itself on the back. Cue getting into a tussle with the young officers who didn't actually die in the war and know first hand what field artillery, machine guns, and "repeating muskets" can do. There are no survivors.

After the ACA is defeated by the All [REDACTED] Army, the A[R]A pursues its first new agenda after the Great Northern War: standardizing language.

  • "Musket" post 3NW refers to a "rifled or smoothbore Line weapon, which is neither a shotgun nor machine gun, with a barrel length greater than thirty (30) inches," which means that many muskets are no longer muskets but because changing all old information would be dumb, the weapons are incorporated into the new nomenclature system using their official/original documentation. Which means that many of these weapons result in names like "Lever Musket, Caliber .265, m/1895" or "Chamber Musket, Caliber .40, m/1865" and on back.
  • "Rifle" post 3NW refers to a "rifled or smoothbore Line weapon, which is neither a shotgun nor machine gun, with a barrel length no less than twenty (20) inches and no greater than thirty (30) inches," which includes all Gallan service rifles since the Third Northern War. This includes the "Rifle, Caliber .265, m/55" and "Rifle, Caliber .223, m/58" which are currently in Army service.
  • "Carbine" post 3NW refers a "rifled or smoothbore Line or other weapon, which is neither a shotgun nor machine gun, with a barrel length no greater than twenty (20) inches," which includes all carbines and submachine guns in service.

The Ordnance Glossary has been updated since 1920 by the Royal Army Ordnance Corps. RAOC is responsible for designing, manufacturing, and procuring weapons and ammunition for the Royal Army, and part of this duty includes categorizing these weapons in accordance with their use, and codifying these categories as needed so that they can be referenced in the future by people who need this information. One of the more haunting lessons of the Gallan Army in the Third Northern War was its lack of unified codification over the years had led to a sprawling morass of documents filled with inexplicable terminology, which resulted in needless training problems through the 1900s and 1910s, that ended up getting culled by artillery fire and machine guns for a few years in the most traumatic way possible.

Unfortunately, as even they are mortal and suffer from the same foibles as all Men, the A[R]A forgot to codify the definition of "common sense definition," so it looks like the same problem is rearing its ugly head in Galla's 21st century superarmy, but at least they have guns and ammo this time. So if they get jumped by the Tank Tumens of the 202X they will probably be OK. Except Galla isn't looking at Tank Tumens but at "Frisia" because Frisia is attention grabbing since it is eating a bag of potato chips and chewing with its mouth open while talking and other disgusting things.

Puzikas wrote:@galla hwat asparagus do you want on 12.7x55


Why exist. Why not erryman 6P62?

IDK what specifically I want to know about it, though, which is why I said I don't know anything about it. I mean, besides it exists, and it goes through ~stuff~. What is his historical purpose? Were Muj running around with IOTVs and alumina plates made by the CIA? Did Big Boss really kidnap the entire 40th Army with a pocket full of weather balloons and a chestpiece full of boron carbide? Is that why ASh-12.7 exists? To fight Big Boss wearing his THICC armor suit impenetrable to weak ass 5.45x39mm? Or is there something more banal going on like:

>When u fightan'
>Barriers and possibly heavy body armor
>"We need a bullet"
>"You can have a 6P62"
>"Make it lighter"
>"OK you can have an ASh-12.7"
>"But you cut the bullet in half"
>"It's OK just get real close"
>"Good enough"
>

Image

And it was so?

Austrasien wrote:Uh oh, we need to get back on track.

Quick lets talk about IQ and C H Y N A


That's so 2016. So dank it's rancid.

We need new memes. Fresh memes.

Picked from the meme vine itself.
Last edited by Gallia- on Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:46 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Postby Tule » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:01 pm

Any glaring flaws with using the 8mm Mauser as a standard rifle/gpmg cartridge?

I want to kill esapi with K bullet.

I also like the brrrt from the MG 42.
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Zhouran
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Ex-Nation

Postby Zhouran » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:30 pm

So, within my nation's military, soldiers are issued with multipurpose bayonets and are trained to use the bayonets in hand-to-hand fighting, knife fighting, and survival in the wild. However, do bayonets actually have a practical use in the field today? From what I read the US Marines still do bayonet training while rest of the US military don't seem to do that anymore.
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Fordorsia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Fordorsia » Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:31 pm

Zhouran wrote:So, within my nation's military, soldiers are issued with multipurpose bayonets and are trained to use the bayonets in hand-to-hand fighting, knife fighting, and survival in the wild. However, do bayonets actually have a practical use in the field today? From what I read the US Marines still do bayonet training while rest of the US military don't seem to do that anymore.
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No bayonet training for the past 100 years has been worth anything, especially not today. Bayonets are completely irrelevant and useless as weapons. Do not bother with training. Just make them practical as tools.
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