Infantry Discussion Thread part 11: Gallas Razor edition.

[Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502]

you forgot something

[Gallia-]

>thinking i forget things

[Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502]

tiberian sun was the best c&c game imo

[Crookfur]

Is it possible to fill rifle grenades with phosgene gas?

yes

[Gallia-]

gayla has CS, phosgene, CK, BZ, and HD rifle grenades iirc

[Britinthia]

If you were going to equip a large militia force with cheap and easy to use firearms, and they are probably never going to actually have to use them for anything other than patrolling civvy areas and looking menacing to deter trouble makers, what would you give them?

I'm leaning towards a 9mm sub-machine good for maximum cheap and fairly easy to use moderately well. But I'm also cautious that it's probably going to be entirely ineffective if it actually has to be used for its intended purpose.

Then there is problem Of, if the militia did have to defend itself against a vaguely organised enemy, an smg isn't gonna cut it at all.

Is there a good balance that isn't an M4?

[Austrasien]

If you were going to equip a large militia force with cheap and easy to use firearms

Whatever is available in sufficient quantity.

[Vyzhva]

Is it possible to fill rifle grenades with phosgene gas?

yes

Exactly how effectively would these gas canisters perform in a combat situation?

[Allanea]

If you were going to equip a large militia force with cheap and easy to use firearms, and they are probably never going to actually have to use them for anything other than patrolling civvy areas and looking menacing to deter trouble makers, what would you give them?

I'm leaning towards a 9mm sub-machine good for maximum cheap and fairly easy to use moderately well. But I'm also cautious that it's probably going to be entirely ineffective if it actually has to be used for its intended purpose.

Then there is problem Of, if the militia did have to defend itself against a vaguely organised enemy, an smg isn't gonna cut it at all.

Is there a good balance that isn't an M4?

All modern firearms are cheap and relatively easy to use. The price of a modern firearm is essentially negligible in terms of arming and maintaining a militia. What a realistic government would do is issue whatever firearms they already have in quantity, or failing that, some variant of the firearm they are already mass-producing.

[Laywenrania]

If you were going to equip a large militia force with cheap and easy to use firearms, and they are probably never going to actually have to use them for anything other than patrolling civvy areas and looking menacing to deter trouble makers, what would you give them?

I'm leaning towards a 9mm sub-machine good for maximum cheap and fairly easy to use moderately well. But I'm also cautious that it's probably going to be entirely ineffective if it actually has to be used for its intended purpose.

Then there is problem Of, if the militia did have to defend itself against a vaguely organised enemy, an smg isn't gonna cut it at all.

Is there a good balance that isn't an M4?

Issue either the same weapon your actual military uses or use existing stockpiles of old weapons the military had used. Designing a new weapon just for your militia is probably costing more then the other two options.

[Triplebaconation]

Evolution of Gallan Helmete:

Pre-1708: A menagerie of then-fashionable/faddish pots and pans
1708-1812: A tricorne
1812-1915: M1832 Shako [Cap, Field, m/1813]
1870-2070+: "Colonial" Pattern Helmet* [Helmet, Sun, m/1870]
1915-1940: M1917 Helmet [Helmet, Steel, m/1915]
1921-1985: M1918/Hale & Kilburn Model 5 [Helmet, Steel, m/1921]
1940-2070+: Model 18/40 [Helmet, Steel, Infantry, m/40]**
1940-1985: Parachute cut Model 18/40*** [Helmet, Steel, Parachutist, m/40]
1960-2070+: A Hat In Time 2: The Tricorne Strikes Back**** [Cap, Field, Tropical, Tricorne, m/60]
1981-2031: PASGT [Helmet, Fragmentation Protective, Ground Troops/Parachutist, Sh90]
1981-2031: ACVC [Helmet, Fragmentation Protective, Combat Vehicle Crewman, Sh90V]
2005-2070+: Lightweight Helmet [Helmet, Fragmentation Protective, Ground Troops/Parachutist, Sh90T]
2021-2070+: PASGT-cut ECH [Helmet, Fragmentation & Small Arms Protective, Ground Troops/Parachutist, Sh21]
2030-2100+: What is a Helmet?***** [Body Armor, Powered, Sd30]

*Still exists as part of Dress, Garrison, Tropical. OTOH it wasn't really common to begin with.
**Stays in service literally forever for the Atomic Force, Atomic Energy Police, Civil Defense Force, and a few other, more obscure government agencies that require something akin to a bright, white, bullet splash-proof hardhat.
***I don't know what else it would look like even though that looks entirely different TBH.
****Yes it's real. No, it wasn't just a one-off eccentric thing. 2nd Battalion, 199th Infantry Brigade wore tricornes in Viet Nam. The battalion LTC was an eccentric who wanted to "build esprit and elan" or something.
*****Less a suit, more a man-sized tank. Eventually becomes standard issue for airborne troops. Mechanized infantry still wear helmet, vest, and battle dress. Highly advanced Frisian Cybertroopers move to all Elemental army before 2070s Final War.

Is Gallia's asparagus too crunchy to use a Tinsleyesque basinet with antennas?

[Gallia-]

Evolution of Gallan Helmete:

Pre-1708: A menagerie of then-fashionable/faddish pots and pans
1708-1812: A tricorne
1812-1915: M1832 Shako [Cap, Field, m/1813]
1870-2070+: "Colonial" Pattern Helmet* [Helmet, Sun, m/1870]
1915-1940: M1917 Helmet [Helmet, Steel, m/1915]
1921-1985: M1918/Hale & Kilburn Model 5 [Helmet, Steel, m/1921]
1940-2070+: Model 18/40 [Helmet, Steel, Infantry, m/40]**
1940-1985: Parachute cut Model 18/40*** [Helmet, Steel, Parachutist, m/40]
1960-2070+: A Hat In Time 2: The Tricorne Strikes Back**** [Cap, Field, Tropical, Tricorne, m/60]
1981-2031: PASGT [Helmet, Fragmentation Protective, Ground Troops/Parachutist, Sh90]
1981-2031: ACVC [Helmet, Fragmentation Protective, Combat Vehicle Crewman, Sh90V]
2005-2070+: Lightweight Helmet [Helmet, Fragmentation Protective, Ground Troops/Parachutist, Sh90T]
2021-2070+: PASGT-cut ECH [Helmet, Fragmentation & Small Arms Protective, Ground Troops/Parachutist, Sh21]
2030-2100+: What is a Helmet?***** [Body Armor, Powered, Sd30]

*Still exists as part of Dress, Garrison, Tropical. OTOH it wasn't really common to begin with.
**Stays in service literally forever for the Atomic Force, Atomic Energy Police, Civil Defense Force, and a few other, more obscure government agencies that require something akin to a bright, white, bullet splash-proof hardhat.
***I don't know what else it would look like even though that looks entirely different TBH.
****Yes it's real. No, it wasn't just a one-off eccentric thing. 2nd Battalion, 199th Infantry Brigade wore tricornes in Viet Nam. The battalion LTC was an eccentric who wanted to "build esprit and elan" or something.
*****Less a suit, more a man-sized tank. Eventually becomes standard issue for airborne troops. Mechanized infantry still wear helmet, vest, and battle dress. Highly advanced Frisian Cybertroopers move to all Elemental army before 2070s Final War.

Is Gallia's asparagus too crunchy to use a Tinsleyesque basinet with antennas?

Bascinet is for machine gunners and sentries, presumably.

It probably just looks like this, though and attaches to the "H&K" Model 5 like M1916's big lug things. ):

[Tule]

If you were going to equip a large militia force with cheap and easy to use firearms, and they are probably never going to actually have to use them for anything other than patrolling civvy areas and looking menacing to deter trouble makers, what would you give them?

I'm leaning towards a 9mm sub-machine good for maximum cheap and fairly easy to use moderately well. But I'm also cautious that it's probably going to be entirely ineffective if it actually has to be used for its intended purpose.

Then there is problem Of, if the militia did have to defend itself against a vaguely organised enemy, an smg isn't gonna cut it at all.

Is there a good balance that isn't an M4?

Infantry rifles have changed very little for the last 50 years for a reason: They're very mature technology and all the bugs have been ironed out.

Any assault rifle in widespread use today is cheap, accurate, lethal and easy to use.

I recommend the G3, because it looks the most menacing.

[Assorted Sucrose-Based Lifeforms]

ebin habbening

I resurrected myself just to post this. See y'all in like another Thread-and-a-half.

[Taihei Tengoku]

ebin habbening

I resurrected myself just to post this. See y'all in like another Thread-and-a-half.

aaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Gallia-]

[squees internally]

I hope the Infantry Museum gets one.

[Husseinarti]

My personal aid kit thing or whatever I guess. This can be a guide or something.

From the top, left to right:

Adult size BP cuff (A gift from my mom :<>)
Five pouch medical bag w/ labels
3 Emergency bandages
Bottle of saline
4 small gauze pads
Package of bandaids
Roll bandage
Eye bandage
Emergency blanket
A bunch of prep-pads
2 Tourniquets
Chest seal
Stethoscope
Sheers
Pens, penlight, pencil
4 Abdominal pads
An gauze sponge
2 ACE bandages
2 SAM splints
2 ice compress
6 nasal airways
nfe
pulse oximeter
2 roll gauze bandages
some cards
ems pocket drug guide
notebook
cpr mask
lube~
oral airways
mask
2 quikclot gauze
safety pins
gloves
asprin
ibuprofen
tylenol

[The Akasha Colony]

If you were going to equip a large militia force with cheap and easy to use firearms, and they are probably never going to actually have to use them for anything other than patrolling civvy areas and looking menacing to deter trouble makers, what would you give them?

I'm leaning towards a 9mm sub-machine good for maximum cheap and fairly easy to use moderately well. But I'm also cautious that it's probably going to be entirely ineffective if it actually has to be used for its intended purpose.

Then there is problem Of, if the militia did have to defend itself against a vaguely organised enemy, an smg isn't gonna cut it at all.

Is there a good balance that isn't an M4?

It would be anything that's surplus and available in sufficient quantities.

Which means it probably isn't a submachine gun since these days, they're relatively rare weapons used for special purposes and thus not produced in nearly the same quantity as the AR-15 or AK-47 or even older rifles like FN FAL or G3.

The most likely candidate is an older-model assault rifle.

[Aldina]

Exactly how effectively would these gas canisters perform in a combat situation?

Probably not fantastically effective. A typical rifle grenade will probably be too small to deliver a useful quantity of phosgene, and the comparatively short range would leave the firer in danger of getting the gas blown back in his own face. Rifle grenades are for providing short-range supporting fire capabilities at the squad level; chemical weapons are better utilized by your field gun batteries, if not dedicated chemical warfare units.

[Allanea]

Phosgene grenades were in fact effective enough to be used by Germany in both world wars, so I assume they were not completely bad.

[Crookfur]

Phosgene grenades were in fact effective enough to be used by Germany in both world wars, so I assume they were not completely bad.

IIRC phosgene hand grenades were used by both sides during ww1 for trench fighting. The main benefit of phosgene grenades was that the dense gas didn't spread too far and would sink down into a trench.

I'm not sure if phosgene survived the switch from pressurised liquid grenades to combustion/pyro effect gas grenades. You would probably have to look deeply into the transition and the progression from the US mk2 to mk5 gas grenades.

As I mentioned its perfectly possible to make phosgene rifle grenades but to be honest I'm not sure they would be as immediately useful as hand grenades or larger capacity shells.
It's a kind of unhappy middle ground kind of situation.

[Purpelia]

Phosgene grenades were in fact effective enough to be used by Germany in both world wars, so I assume they were not completely bad.

IIRC phosgene hand grenades were used by both sides during ww1 for trench fighting. The main benefit of phosgene grenades was that the dense gas didn't spread too far and would sink down into a trench.

I'm not sure if phosgene survived the switch from pressurised liquid grenades to combustion/pyro effect gas grenades. You would probably have to look deeply into the transition and the progression from the US mk2 to mk5 gas grenades.

As I mentioned its perfectly possible to make phosgene rifle grenades but to be honest I'm not sure they would be as immediately useful as hand grenades or larger capacity shells.
It's a kind of unhappy middle ground kind of situation.

Urban combat I would imagine. The ability to drop one in through a window or over a building into the next street over would be for a lot of fun. Doubly so if he makes his rifle grenades so that they can be thrown by hand and even light mortar like the Japanese did in WW2. Chemical warfare for everyone!

[Vyzhva]

IIRC phosgene hand grenades were used by both sides during ww1 for trench fighting. The main benefit of phosgene grenades was that the dense gas didn't spread too far and would sink down into a trench.

I'm not sure if phosgene survived the switch from pressurised liquid grenades to combustion/pyro effect gas grenades. You would probably have to look deeply into the transition and the progression from the US mk2 to mk5 gas grenades.

As I mentioned its perfectly possible to make phosgene rifle grenades but to be honest I'm not sure they would be as immediately useful as hand grenades or larger capacity shells.
It's a kind of unhappy middle ground kind of situation.

Urban combat I would imagine. The ability to drop one in through a window or over a building into the next street over would be for a lot of fun. Doubly so if he makes his rifle grenades so that they can be thrown by hand and even light mortar like the Japanese did in WW2. Chemical warfare for everyone!

Sounds sort of fun tbh

[Purpelia]

Urban combat I would imagine. The ability to drop one in through a window or over a building into the next street over would be for a lot of fun. Doubly so if he makes his rifle grenades so that they can be thrown by hand and even light mortar like the Japanese did in WW2. Chemical warfare for everyone!

Sounds sort of fun tbh

Here is the grenade I was talking about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_91_grenade

[Spirit of Hope]

Up until your enemy starts wearing MOPP gear, and you just go back to using explosives.

While you can certainly make such a weapon, chemical weapons usefulness is rather restricted.