Infantry Discussion Thread part 11: Gallas Razor edition.

[Puzikas]

Hello you filthy degenerates.

This thread is the Eleventh iteration of the somehow-still-going Nationstates Infantry Discussion Thread, one of several Nationstates realism consultation threads and a member of a family of several containment threads where poorly adjusted members of the armchair general community rest their brains.

Welcome to the Infantry in your Nation thread! A continuation of the Main Military Weapons thread series.

Unlike the previous series, this thread Is for the discussion of your national military small arms, body armor, uniforms, communications gear, other general equipment, tactics or histories relating to Infantry, as opposed to solely small arms and weapons.
All tech levels are welcome, but please understand that this thread tends to be geared towards past, modern, and postmodern tech, so designs operating on unexplained basis or pseudo-science are bound to be criticized from a realistic perspective. If having your designs evaluated for a realistic perspective does not appeal to you, it is advisable you do not post here. There is nothing wrong with future tech, fantasy tech, or any other non-modern technology based nation posting a design, and you are welcome to post here, but be prepared for the inevitable "That won't work because..." post. These are not meant to offend you, they are meant to teach you. If you do not require enlightenment, simply leave it alone.

If you do post a design here, you agree that it will likely be criticized by the denizens of this thread. You are under no obligation to change the design based on this criticism, but continuing to argue in the face of facts will not bode well for you. Further, if you are unsure as to a design element, ask. If someone asks and you do not know the answer, don't respond. Speak on subjects you know, don't attempt to bullshit. Finally, there are plenty of people in this thread, both new and old, who have knowledge regarding a vast array of military technologies, try to learn from them. Dispute if you will, but be prepared to use facts to back up your claims.

"Because it's magic" "I'm FT and therefore modern rules dont apply to me" and "because I say so" are not valid arguments. Posters, if a player makes aid argument, drop it. These and other non-answers demonstrate that the poster has no desire to learn, therefore, you can not teach.

Please avoid excessive posting of vehicles, regardless of their effect on infantry deployment, this is an infantry thread first and foremost, we have vehicle and aircraft threads for those. That said, discussion of various Armored Personnel Carriers, Infantry Fighting Vehicles ect. is permitted within limit.

The Rules

~ Originally created by a team of collaborators from threads long gone.
1: Read the OP. As you can probably guess from the title this thread has been around a while, the OP contains all alot some of the knowledge gained from previous iterations.

2: By posting you are accepting that they WILL be criticized, however it is up to you whether you listen (though you aren't going to make friends if you don't).

3: If you do offer criticism, make sure it's constructive, and don't assume that the person you're criticising knows what's wrong. "That won't work", "That's completely wrong" "What the hell is that abomination" and similar comments aren't helpful or constructive. Tell people why whatever is being designed won't work, especially if they ask you to explain. Saying "lul, an idiot can see why that won't work" or "because *insert obscure hint that only helps if the person you're talking to has the exact same set of knowledge as you do*" and similar things will only lead to flame wars, trolling and people getting banned. Don't be a dick.

4: Be civil, site rules still apply.

5: Whilst not encouraged off topic posts are allowed to an extent, EG you wont get a warning if you post a jet or tank etc... Just remember this thread is for infantry equipment, including but not limited to small arms, armor and uniforms.

6: While the F&NI sub forum is in-character, most posts in technology discussions threads are OOC in nature. IC statements can be made but are not the norm and may not be read as in character.

7: Excepting page topping "gun porn", or "infantry porn", large images will be placed in spoilers. "Large" will be determined by moderation. If you are asked to place images in spoilers, please do so.

8: Be

9: No feeding the trolls

10: Respect is earned, and your post probably isn't as funny as you think it is.

11. Do not fill up the thread by constantly posting the same thing over and over again. If you have a problem with another player, please place them on your ignore list.

The Arsenal of Knowledge:
Army Feild Manual index
An Explanation of Bullets and their Wounding Effects, by Puzikas
Bullet Design Calculator
(Please Note: meplat diameter should be, at minimum 0.15 times the diameter of the projectile, the boat tail angle should be not less than 7 degrees, the length of the projectile should not exceed 6 times the diameter of the projectile, there should be at least 5mm of body between the end of the ogive and the start of the boat tail, 10.4 is the specific gravity for FMJ projectiles not the default 11.4, M43 style steel core projectiles have a SG of 8.3, DBP10 steel cored rounds with an air pocket have a SG of 8.5, copper bullets have a SG of 8.9, steel cored lead free projectiles have a SG of 8.2, 7N6 style projectiles have a SG of 7.6, lead core projectiles with a large airgrap have a SG of 9.1, and M855 style steel tipped projectiles have a SG of 9.4)
Case capacity calculator by Arkandros
Internal Ballistics Calculator
External Ballistics Calculator
Custom MilTech Oriented Search Engine from the NSDraftroom
DTIC.mil Search Engine
Introduction to Magazines and Clips - Design, History, and Function
Operator Hotline
A composite List of modern Military Projectiles and Ammunitions, by Puzikas and Aqizithiuda. Includes 100 different projectiles ranging from a .17HMR FMJ to 14.5x114mm, the list covers 44 different named ammunition loads, with 37 rifle and 7 pistol rounds. Entries highlighted in Green represent military loads used in, in use, or with potential application in military settings. Areas highlighted in Blue are estimated figures for lack of concrete data or conflicting sources.


We once had a list of the 25 original gang of IDT specialists and their specialties. For information pertaining to them, you are better off asking a specific question pertaining to them, and an answer might appear from one of them.

Good luck.

[Khornatenreich]

Well then, it begins once more.

[Gallia-]

Gallan Assault Ration (Stridsratjon)
- Provides 2,000 kcal per ration. Two per day.
- 6 menus to choose from.
- Packaged 18 per shipping box. Three per menu.
- Designed for the soldier in the main battle on the mechanized battlefield.
- Weighs approximately 1/3rd the 24-hour Individual Ration (1.1 lbs).
- Rations remain edible (no freezing/melting) down to -15 C and up to +35 C, suitable for all average seasonal temperature variations of Gallia.
- Ration is designed to be hydrated with 100 oz or less of water. Each infantryman carries at least 2 quarts (typically, 7 quarts) of water on himself.
- Intended for use to a maximum of 7 days (one "combat-week"). Protection against malnutrition after this period cannot be guaranteed, although feeding norms extend as far as 14 days with the Assault Ration. Prime problem is considered to be the depletion of muscle glycogen levels after one combat-week during moderate to harsh levels of physical activity. Soldiers feeding from Assault Rations will rapidly reach exhaustion point after approximately 9 days. Assault Ration NG (Next Generation) is considered to be a high performance, carbohydrate-heavy foodstuff that will increase the combat capability of current rations to a range between 1.5-2 combat-weeks, with an objective increase to 1.5 combat weeks (9 combat-days). Feeding norms will remain equivalent.
- Initial body weight losses during a combat operation (~7 days/7 nights) is expected to exceed the 4% guideline by 0.5% on average. This translates to a body weight loss of 3 kg ± 0.3 kg. If adequately hydrated, approximately 50% of this weight loss will be fat tissue, with the remainder being water. This (barely) meets physiological guidelines established by the Royal Army Medical Corps for field operations. Overall body fat loss is comparable (on average, less) to the standard 24-hour Individual Ration when properly hydrated.
- Dehydrated rations are certified to be sustainable within the prescribed time period using mean man-quarts of water.
- Specific gravity of urine will typically not exceed 1.030 in greater than 18% of ground troops after one combat-week time under harsh (sub-arctic, mountainous) conditions, if soldiers are sustained with basic water load (7 quarts) approximately once a day. Recommendations by RAMC to increase water supply to 8 quarts have resulted in developing and field-testing an experimental 1.5 quart canteen, but this was never procured. Units issued the Assault Ration (for example, battalion forward detachments, armored reconnaissance, special operations troops, parachute infantry, and long-range reconnaissance patrols) should expect to carry at least one additional 1-quart canteen.
- Ration contains approximately 5% greater fat content than the 24-hour Individual Ration. Carbohydrate content is approximately the same. Sodium content is highly reduced due to lack of salted/preserved meats and fishes, and to reduce water intake requirements for flushing sodium. Assault Ration is fortified to provide adequate quantities of vitamins and minerals to combat troops, approximately equivalent to Individual Ration.
- Assault Ration fails to meet caloric intake requirements for ground troops working during one combat-week. However, it is considered suitable for emergency/wartime use in limited duration, punctuated by more substantial Garrison/Kitchen Rations consumed from battalion or company-level mobile field kitchens during respites.
- Metabolic water consumption needed to excrete nitrogenous and sodium content was reduced by approximately 20 ounces. Food source water from the Individual Ration totals approximately 20-45 ounces. As it is anticipated that soldiers will require approximately 1 additional quart of water when issued the Assault Ration, the net 52 ounces of hydration saved by Assault Ration is considered adequate to compensate for the lack of food source water.
- Carbohydrate content of Assault Ration is found lacking compared to the Individual Ration. Ground troops typically consume between 65-85% of a ration, on average. Individual Ration contains 550 g/CHO/day, with an average consumption of 358 g/CHO/day (approx. 65%) and Assault Ration contains 420 g/CHO/day, with an average consumption of 357 g/CHO/day (approx. 85% of ration). Ground troops' performance in combat and endurance related tasks is severely diminished by this reduced carbohydrate consumption, potentially leaving them physically exhausted after several days of combat.
- Consumption less than total of a combat ration means that ground troops suffer reduced vitamin and mineral intake. For Assault Ration, this translates to a sharply reduced calcium, magnesium, and riboflavin intake in cold weather, the latter of which was provided primarily by the universally despised "orange" flavor beverage bar. Fortification of oats and chocolate beverage bar has alleviated this somewhat, although cold weather performance still leaves much to be desired re: fortification.

The Army Supply Administration, under command of GEN J.M.R. Dahl, is coordinating with the Food Science Directorate of Research and Engineering Administration to develop a successor for Assault Ration. This next-generation foodstuff will contain a higher quantity of carbohydrates (objective: 600 g/CHO/day; translating to 510 g/CHO/day at 85% consumption) to the Assault Ration, a lower quantity of fats, proteins, and sodium, and a similar quantity of vitamins and nutrients. Removal of "orange" flavor beverage bar was implemented during production lots in FY97 and beyond. As of 2017, the "orange" flavor beverage bar is naught more than a horror story used to frighten young infantrymen into consuming their fortified chocolate drink.

[Western Pacific Territories]

This thread is now dedicated to 256th Infantry Brigade Combat Team/36th Infantry Division (Texas National Guard).

[Puzikas]

I put exactly as much effort into that OP as I have everything else lately
Night boys

[Sevvania]

IDT never changes.

[Theodosiya]

And the cycle continues...

Is there any advice for designing new gen (2015+)gear (Helm, vest, guns, radio, etc) from scratch?

[Inzunza]

I'm secretly a little old man and this youngin' talk is suspect to me. When I hear "fiber" I think of breakfast cereal.

Now, you two (being Puzikas and Austrasien) seem to be up to date with everything and I'm curious as to what you both use for combat helmets? I don't need to concern myself with the design too much but if steel is being phased out, I'm obligated to be technologically up to date (turns out, banning religion is great for science but is bad for me. I wanted to be an underdeveloped and economically defunct communist state, but the issues have been FAR too kind to me). To me as an individual, modern tech may as well be future tech but I'm trying to get better.

That being said, would animals in service of infantry sections, platoons, etc be considered part of the infantry section's, platoon's, etc's kit like bomb sniffing dogs? Or, the question in a shorter format, can a puppy be considered "Infantry Gear"?

Post this in the new thread to get more answers
I use the Russian Army's newest series helmet ICly, 6B47V.
IRL my helmet is a 6B27.

Dogs and other working animals are usually a much higher asset. Like Bigade or Division level.

Hashtag following instructions.

See, my plan is to increase morale by having a pouch to carry tactical kittens so if you're ever scared in the middle of a firefight, you can reach in and pullout your tactical kitten and give it kisses and collect yourself for a minute before returning fire.

[The Akasha Colony]

Post this in the new thread to get more answers
I use the Russian Army's newest series helmet ICly, 6B47V.
IRL my helmet is a 6B27.

Dogs and other working animals are usually a much higher asset. Like Bigade or Division level.

Hashtag following instructions.

See, my plan is to increase morale by having a pouch to carry tactical kittens so if you're ever scared in the middle of a firefight, you can reach in and pullout your tactical kitten and give it kisses and collect yourself for a minute before returning fire.

I know the kitten thing is facetious, but the problem with working animals is that they need veterinary support. And trained veterinarians are rarer and harder to train than basic mechanics for motor vehicles. So working animals will be placed at fairly high levels where they can be supported by the appropriate logistics chain. They may be deployed forward for special tasks as needed, but they will not be organically integrated into lower-level fighting units.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Repost from last thread:
Puz I have a very specific puzzle I've been wondering over recently,
Been reading Jutland again and there's this passage:

... The wounded began to come down in great numbers, mostly burns, and very bad burns they were, entailing very extensive dressings and of course morphia. I don't quite understand the immediate cause of death.
We talk vaguely of shock, but I don't know that this explains it. A man will walk into the dressing station, or possibly be carried in, with face and hands badly scorched, not deeply burned, nor disfigured. One would call it a burn of the first degree. Very rapidly, almost as one looks, the face swells up, the looser parts of the skin become enormously swollen, the eyes are invisible through the great swelling of the lids, the lips enormous jelly like masses, in the centre of which, a button-like mouth appears. I have an idea that it must be due to the very high temperature of the burning cordite applied for a very short time. It is quite unlike any burns I have ever seen in civil life and would be very easily avoided by wearing asbestos gloves and masks, or similar anti-fire substance. The great cry is water, not much pain, and that is easily subdued by morphia. There is then great and increasing restlessness, breathing rapid and shallow, and final collapse. ...

I'm wondering what these wounded are succumbing to.

[Gallia-]

Post this in the new thread to get more answers
I use the Russian Army's newest series helmet ICly, 6B47V.
IRL my helmet is a 6B27.

Dogs and other working animals are usually a much higher asset. Like Bigade or Division level.

Hashtag following instructions.

See, my plan is to increase morale by having a pouch to carry tactical kittens so if you're ever scared in the middle of a firefight, you can reach in and pullout your tactical kitten and give it kisses and collect yourself for a minute before returning fire.

What if you sit on the tactical kitten?

Who put salsa in my kitten pouch?

[Inzunza]

I know the kitten thing is facetious, but the problem with working animals is that they need veterinary support. And trained veterinarians are rarer and harder to train than basic mechanics for motor vehicles. So working animals will be placed at fairly high levels where they can be supported by the appropriate logistics chain. They may be deployed forward for special tasks as needed, but they will not be organically integrated into lower-level fighting units.

What are you talking about? Everyone I know who has served calls themselves a "Vet." Obviously, a soldier needs to know how to treat their animals.

What if you sit on the tactical kitten?

Who put salsa in my kitten pouch?

OBVIOUSLY, the kitten pouch would be on your tactical vest with it's cute head sticking out for tactical ear kisses. So long as you don't have to jump on your chest, kitten should be fine. How often does anyone try to fight a war while lying down, anyways?

[Laritaia]

[Inzunza]

Nah, that kitten is expended. You can tell because it's in the drop pouch. Good idea using kittens that match your camo, though.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

puz going off premature as usual

age is taking its toll rip

[Kassaran]

It lievs again!

EDIT: It Kievs again!

[Gallia-]

Repost from last thread:
Puz I have a very specific puzzle I've been wondering over recently,
Been reading Jutland again and there's this passage:

... The wounded began to come down in great numbers, mostly burns, and very bad burns they were, entailing very extensive dressings and of course morphia. I don't quite understand the immediate cause of death.
We talk vaguely of shock, but I don't know that this explains it. A man will walk into the dressing station, or possibly be carried in, with face and hands badly scorched, not deeply burned, nor disfigured. One would call it a burn of the first degree. Very rapidly, almost as one looks, the face swells up, the looser parts of the skin become enormously swollen, the eyes are invisible through the great swelling of the lids, the lips enormous jelly like masses, in the centre of which, a button-like mouth appears. I have an idea that it must be due to the very high temperature of the burning cordite applied for a very short time. It is quite unlike any burns I have ever seen in civil life and would be very easily avoided by wearing asbestos gloves and masks, or similar anti-fire substance. The great cry is water, not much pain, and that is easily subdued by morphia. There is then great and increasing restlessness, breathing rapid and shallow, and final collapse. ...

I'm wondering what these wounded are succumbing to.

High temperature burns over a large portion (>25%) of the body surface area resulting in a generalized edema that swells tissues. Or just swelling across the hands and airways that were burned. Either works. They probably suffocated when their airways sealed up. Modern medics would give them IV drips (saline? water?) immediately I guess, because that's the first response you're supposed to do with major burn victims, which is supposed to help control the immune response/swelling/edema. After that it's mostly palliative care until their immune system calms down or they die of a heart attack. Puz would know more because I'm just a guy on the Internet who googles stuff so I'm probably wrong.

[Dostanuot Loj]

Totally not a tag.

I'm wondering if there is anything inherently wrong with using the old British gun and assault group section format instead of balanced fireteams today, and giving the assault team IARs.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

what is the old british gun in this context

[Inzunza]

what is the old british gun in this context

I think he's referring to the organization of military units from the time rather than firearms themselves.

[Gallia-]

what is the old british gun in this context

Reading the sentence wrong.

He's talking about a section organized around a gun and assault group, in the manner of the old, British-style of the Interwar.

[Austrasien]

It lievs again!

EDIT: It Kievs again!

I will never die :->

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

what is the old british gun in this context

Reading the sentence wrong.

He's talking about a section organized around a gun and assault group, in the manner of the old, British-style of the Interwar.

I was indeed reading wrong.

[Alimeria-]

1910s

Green Norse-based tunic, Stahlhelm/pickelhaube/roman helmet hybrid, WWI German Machine Gunner's armor, belt with pouches and sword bayonet and stuff, and boots based on hunting boots

Ragnar-Arnbjörg Líkan 1912, 8.5x63mm

Snikmorder Líkan 1915, 8.5x63mm

Sigrún Shipkiller, Undecided Caliber

Stígander Vélkarabin and Vélgevär, 8.5x63

Sigrún-Björnsson Þungur Vélgevär

Arnbjörg Líkan 1912, 11.5x45 because fuck life

1940s-50s

Ragnar-Stigandr VG36, 8.5x63mm

.276 Legionary (7x51mm)

Stocks & Shading in the process of being updated, so new pictures eventually

[Azurg]

New gat iteration for a new thread