Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation Mk X

[Laritaia]

the CTA 40 really isn't suitable for use as a coaxial weapon due to how it feeds.

[Ban Pho]

When you thought you had seen it all:
(Image)

What is problem?
88 Were built.

It looks so weird. No wonder the germans called it "Stummel"

[Gallia-]

What is problem?
88 Were built.

It looks so weird cute. No wonder the germans called it "Stummel"

ftfy

[Autonomous Eastern Ukraine]

Playing CoH blitzkrieg, I like the Stummel a lot.

[Ban Pho]

It looks so weird cute. No wonder the germans called it "Stummel"

ftfy

ok i'll agree. it looks cute tbh

[Pentaga Giudici]

Why is that "Dare to Compare" up?

[Korva]

S P R E Y
P
R
E
Y

[Fordorsia]

Can wheeled tank destroyers and AFVs carry ERA? Or is their armour too light for it?

I ask because I thought of the idea of using just those vehicles as the main combat vehicle instead of super expensive and fuel hungry MBTs that are for most countries, low in number. I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to arm them with modern 120mm guns, even if they needed to be widened slightly if a larger turret was needed. After all the Centauro managed to fit a 120mm gun, and if an example of a vehicle really couldn't fit one, ATGMs are a thing.

[Pentaga Giudici]

Can wheeled tank destroyers and AFVs carry ERA? Or is their armour too light for it?

I ask because I thought of the idea of using just those vehicles as the main combat vehicle instead of super expensive and fuel hungry MBTs that are for most countries, low in number. I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to arm them with modern 120mm guns, even if they needed to be widened slightly if a larger turret was needed. After all the Centauro managed to fit a 120mm gun, and if an example of a vehicle really couldn't fit one, ATGMs are a thing.

The Bradly has something like the TUSK or Blazer ERA on it.

So I presume that the areas the ERA coats, are thick enough.

Just look up how thick they are and use that as your armor thickness baseline?

[Laritaia]

Can wheeled tank destroyers and AFVs carry ERA? Or is their armour too light for it?

I ask because I thought of the idea of using just those vehicles as the main combat vehicle instead of super expensive and fuel hungry MBTs that are for most countries, low in number. I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to arm them with modern 120mm guns, even if they needed to be widened slightly if a larger turret was needed. After all the Centauro managed to fit a 120mm gun, and if an example of a vehicle really couldn't fit one, ATGMs are a thing.

yes wheeled gun systems can carry ERA, but that won't protect you from tank rounds without the heavy armour behind it.

[The Akasha Colony]

Can wheeled tank destroyers and AFVs carry ERA? Or is their armour too light for it?

I ask because I thought of the idea of using just those vehicles as the main combat vehicle instead of super expensive and fuel hungry MBTs that are for most countries, low in number. I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to arm them with modern 120mm guns, even if they needed to be widened slightly if a larger turret was needed. After all the Centauro managed to fit a 120mm gun, and if an example of a vehicle really couldn't fit one, ATGMs are a thing.

They can carry it.

But doing so pushes them into the weight class where it is much better to use tracked vehicles, because their offroad mobility will suffer and they will end up being larger, heavier, and less protected than a tracked vehicle of the same performance. They also aren't much less expensive, especially if they are expected to do the work of a tank which means they will need tank-grade FCS, which is the real cost driver of modern vehicles. A wheeled vehicle costs practically the same as a tracked vehicle up front but is slightly cheaper to operate if you keep it on roads and such, which with the end of the Cold War has become a more common scenario in police actions.

If you're not going to fight anything more than police actions that depend on traveling on roads, like the Russians in the Balkans which touched off the wheeled AFV craze in the west, w/e. But if you expect to engage in any serious high-intensity combat against a parity foe, wheeled AFVs are a bit of a false economy, especially for an MBT replacement (because they aren't an MBT replacement).

Notice how despite the cutbacks in European tank fleets and the widespread proliferation of wheeled AFVs, no one's talking about switching entirely to wheeled AFVs in lieu of tanks.

[Gallia-]

Why is that "Dare to Compare" up?

Because.

[Fordorsia]

Darn, foiled again!


So if not as a replacement, would it still be worth creating/upgrading wheeled vehicles that do have the same armament and fire control as the MBTs? I dunno, for large areas that are fine for them moving around in, while the MBTs go roll around in mud and shit?

[Gallia-]

Darn, foiled again!


So if not as a replacement, would it still be worth creating/upgrading wheeled vehicles that do have the same armament and fire control as the MBTs? I dunno, for large areas that are fine for them moving around in, while the MBTs go roll around in mud and shit?

Probably not.

You'll be spending more than half what it costs a tank anyway.

[Fordorsia]

Darn, foiled again!


So if not as a replacement, would it still be worth creating/upgrading wheeled vehicles that do have the same armament and fire control as the MBTs? I dunno, for large areas that are fine for them moving around in, while the MBTs go roll around in mud and shit?

Probably not.

You'll be spending more than half what it costs a tank anyway.

Well just how likely is it that a modern MBT would survive a shot from another MBT anyway? Could be that the larger number of less armour wheeled vehicles don't need that much armour if they already have the best gun and maybe big ATGMs, as both vehicles could get killed regardless of armour.

inb4 I get called dumb

[The Akasha Colony]

Well just how likely is it that a modern MBT would survive a shot from another MBT anyway? Could be that the larger number of less armour wheeled vehicles don't need that much armour if they already have the best gun and maybe big ATGMs, as both vehicles could get killed regardless of armour.

inb4 I get called dumb

Modern Western MBTs are generally fairly good at resisting each others attacks from the frontal arc, although this is in part because they aren't designed to engage each other, but instead optimized to engage Eastern bloc tanks. Even so, MBTs don't carry nearly a meter of armor in the forward arc and dedicate half their mass to protection just for kicks.

But enemy tanks are only one potential threat and MBTs are very good at resisting a whole host of other threats that would put any lesser vehicle out of commission, such as anti-tank missiles, RPGs, autocannons, and other light anti-armor weapons that would easily put a wheeled tank destroyer or IFV out of action but would not be able to defeat a full MBT.

That aside, a wheeled vehicle will be taller than a tank and thus more likely to be spotted, engaged, and knocked out, so they aren't attractive from that standpoint either. Even if both the wheeled vehicle and a tank could not withstand a tank round or ATGM attack, the wheeled vehicle is still more likely to get killed because it's more likely to be spotted. Which is one of the problems with wheeled vehicles: they're larger and less armored than tracked vehicles, which means they're doubly vulnerable.

[Gallia-]

Probably not.

You'll be spending more than half what it costs a tank anyway.

Well just how likely is it that a modern MBT would survive a shot from another MBT anyway? Could be that the larger number of less armour wheeled vehicles don't need that much armour if they already have the best gun and maybe big ATGMs, as both vehicles could get killed regardless of armour.

Big wheeled death truck gets obliterated by heavy machine guns and RPGs and automatic cannon while tank dgaf unless it's another tank or a Javelin missile.

[Fordorsia]

Dreams = ruined. But at least now I know.

Okay new plan. Very small vehicle carrying big ass ATGMs. Are there any size limits for ATGMs, because of flight characteristics or something? I was thinking like 200mm for maximum penetration.

[Gallia-]

Size limits are "must be able to be carried by whatever platform in whatever quantity is required for whichever mission".

[Fordorsia]

RIP enemies

[Dostanuot Loj]

That aside, a wheeled vehicle will be taller than a tank

Most in service wheeled big gun AFVs are within 20cm of height of most Western tanks.

It's their narrow width that causes issues.

Plenty of development concepts have been really tall though, but that's part of the reason they never enter service.

[Gallia-]

RIP enemies

ATGW can be hundreds of pounds and several meters long and still be incapable of killing modern tanks.

[Fordorsia]

RIP enemies

ATGW can be hundreds of pounds and several meters long and still be incapable of killing modern tanks.

: (

What about the Leopards being killed by ATGMs?

[The Akasha Colony]

Dreams = ruined. But at least now I know.

Okay new plan. Very small vehicle carrying big ass ATGMs. Are there any size limits for ATGMs, because of flight characteristics or something? I was thinking like 200mm for maximum penetration.

You don't need a huge missile to kill tanks.

Javelin can kill tanks quite well and is man-portable. Spike is also effective against tanks and doesn't need to be 200 mm for "maximum penetration." Just use a top attack profile.

Or if you insist on direct attack, just use something like CKEM.

: (

What about the Leopards being killed by ATGMs?

The point is that you don't need some kind of hilariously oversized ATGM to kill a tank because it isn't really the size that matters, it's how it goes about actually attacking the target. A massive missile will not necessarily get through the tank's thick frontal armor which is designed specifically to defeat such attacks but even a relatively small warhead will manage to get through weaker points like the roof.

[EsToVnIa]

Is developing an upgrade package comparable to the T-72-120 worth it? Or would it be cheaper to buy Leo2A4s and the like