Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation Mk X

[Chinevion]

Provided you changed a lot of stuff,
Take for example the Raksha 2 mbt
The Raksha 2 mbt is my take on a mbt 70 design. But with some very big differences.
1. Get rid of the 152, and replace it with a 120 or 135, in my case I chose a 135.
2. Move driver to the hull.
3. Replace RHA with composite.
4. Make the turret less rounded.

With that done, the mbt functions. For me anyway

i.e. you made it not an MBT-70. Still a really good lineart tho

Thanks, I kept the over all design, but changed it to what I think it would have looked like if modernized, and while I felt bad about moving driver to hull, that is something that would have had to been done eventually. And the germans were planning to put a 120 in so its not unlikely eventually it would have gotten a 120 or in my case a 135

[Gallia-]

Define "work."

Mechanically, it functioned. There were teething problems, some bigger than others, but every complex weapons program has them. MBT-70 had lots of unnecessary bells and whistles (as well as some actually useful improvements, like hydropneumatic suspension) and ironing out the problems in all of these components simultaneously was one of the big issues.

The real issue is that it ended up being very expensive and changes were made to the design requirements that would have required a completely new vehicle configuration. The Germans were already dissatisfied with the program and working on their own alternatives under the table (since the joint development agreement technically forbade both the US and West Germany from trying to develop new tanks on the side) so the program was cancelled. The US tried to salvage the program with XM803 but it turned out to be just as complex and expensive so it got cancelled again and was in turn replaced by the XM1 program, which despite cost controls eventually resulted in a tank that wasn't much cheaper than the "too expensive" MBT-70 and XM803.

One of MBT-70's biggest problems in hindsight is that it came just a bit too early for a series of revolutions in armor, armament, and electronics that Abrams was able to benefit from. MBT-70 predated the introduction of special armor, laser rangefinders, and HV smoothbore guns. Abrams got two of these from the start and got the third fairly quickly. It is possible MBT-70 could have gotten them, but it probably would have ended up looking more like the T-64/72 series and would have ended up toward the lighter end of the protection scale.

OK.

MBT-70 was literally designed from the start for a hyper velocity gun and laser rangefinder, TBF.

Special Armor is no big deal when M60, a much older tank, can have more modern Special Armor than most tanks.

[New Antonalia]

stingray cutest tanku :> only 20 tonnes

Don't lewd Stingray.

Source?

It's common sense.

Maybe for the NS Armchair generals who enjoy jumping on the Pro-Russia bandwagon, but not for me. So show me a bloody source from a legitimate publication.

[Gallia-]

If you don't know that South Africa is a vassal of the PRC, then there's no use trying to teach you such a basic fact, because it's one step above "find these places on a map" tier knowledge.

While South Africa didn't have a war about it or anything, it still collapsed into total communist alignment like Zimbabwe/Rhodesia, Angola, and Mozambique did.

The only difference is that for the time being, and probably during the next world war, the United States Army will still step on South Africa like a bug.

[United Earthlings]

It is my understanding that 40mm CTA is essentially a 40mm weapon designed to be the size of a 30mm one. Well, 30x173 which is the OTAN 30mm but you get the idea.
See here: http://www.quarryhs.co.uk/WLIP.htm

So basically I don't see why not go for it. Of course, you'll have to engineer a different loading system but so what?

The bolded tends to be viewed as heresy within the engineering community of the Commonwealth Defence establishment. A design should be simple and reliable {AKA rugged}, if you’re having to over engineer it to work your doing it wrong.

After giving it some thought the past couple of days, I’ve decided to go with the 30-mm cannon as the secondary primary armament for the new IFV design which I feel will complement the primary armament quite nicely.

However, as a compromise my updated older IFV design I included the 40-mm CTA as an armament export option. I also included the Bofors 40-mmL/70 as a cannon option because everyone could also use a little Swedish love every now and then. So, for you purp I gave you two 40-mm cannons to use for the price of one.

[Gallia-]

By that asinine logic then you shouldn't have anything mechanized at all, because any amount of new weaponeering requires engineering different things. In fact, experimentation, creativity, and general ingenuity are the core fundamentals of the profession of the engineer. Any "engineer" that sees "his job" as tedious or "heresy" needs to be re-assigned to "custodial" or "sanitation" "engineer" instead, since they are clearly a technician. Real engineers tend to go overboard, in the direction of "simplicity" rather than "complexity", when given a clean-sheet design because it lets them work without constraints. "Complexity" results when you are required to make something out of something else.

40mm CTA (and its American origins/antecedents at AAI Corporation) are one of the simplest feeding mechanisms possible.

[United Earthlings]

Since it wasn't as clearly stated, it’s not that the Commonwealth engineering community doesn’t embrace those core fundamentals of experimentation, creativity, and ingenuity. What the Commonwealth tends to view as heresy is those engineers who trend toward Overengineering of things and therefore at some point violate the KISS principle. Which is what I interpret purp as saying with the sentence I bolded.

Of course that stated, this heresy is not always equally applied throughout time and throughout the various service branches, but as a general principle the Commonwealth tends to be more conservative with its designs stressing the natural evolution of things instead of trying to start a revolution. Revolutions tend to be messy, chaotic while evolutions allow one time to adapt to change, hopefully change that is gradual.

So, addressing your two last sentences, you’re half right because in all likelihood the Commonwealth probably wouldn’t have developed mechanization as fast on its own, but it’s intelligent enough to watch global trends and then jump full force on the bandwagon with a vengeance when it’s correctly read which way the winds are blowing. The Commonwealth has developed quite a bit from this design philosophy throughout the 20th and early 21st century on everything from its first tanks to modern stealth aircraft and drones.

If the 40-mm CTA feeding mechanism is simpler than the previously developed feeding mechanisms for automatic cannons, then that fits in with the Commonwealth’s design philosophy of gradual evolution {improvement} of equipment, but if the 40-mm feeding is/was more complex the Commonwealth tends to the majority of times shun such projects culturally for various reasons.

[Purpelia]

WTF man? I mean genuinely.

By what logic is finding a different way to tilt the ammo box until it fits the turret you want over engineering? That's literally the equivalent of having to figure out where to fit an ammo belt for a machinegun or something like that.

And you don't even have to do that. The only reason why I even mentioned it is that I figured you'd want to maintain the BMP-3 look and its turret is round and small where as the loading system for 40mm CTA is a rectangular box that would force you to make the turret a bit egg shaped.

[The Manticoran Empire]

Since it wasn't as clearly stated, it’s not that the Commonwealth engineering community doesn’t embrace those core fundamentals of experimentation, creativity, and ingenuity. What the Commonwealth tends to view as heresy is those engineers who trend toward Overengineering of things and therefore at some point violate the KISS principle. Which is what I interpret purp as saying with the sentence I bolded.

Of course that stated, this heresy is not always equally applied throughout time and throughout the various service branches, but as a general principle the Commonwealth tends to be more conservative with its designs stressing the natural evolution of things instead of trying to start a revolution. Revolutions tend to be messy, chaotic while evolutions allow one time to adapt to change, hopefully change that is gradual.

So, addressing your two last sentences, you’re half right because in all likelihood the Commonwealth probably wouldn’t have developed mechanization as fast on its own, but it’s intelligent enough to watch global trends and then jump full force on the bandwagon with a vengeance when it’s correctly read which way the winds are blowing. The Commonwealth has developed quite a bit from this design philosophy throughout the 20th and early 21st century on everything from its first tanks to modern stealth aircraft and drones.

If the 40-mm CTA feeding mechanism is simpler than the previously developed feeding mechanisms for automatic cannons, then that fits in with the Commonwealth’s design philosophy of gradual evolution {improvement} of equipment, but if the 40-mm feeding is/was more complex the Commonwealth tends to the majority of times shun such projects culturally for various reasons.

If you read the page, you would know that over-engineering can be a good thing.

[Gallia-]

trend toward Overengineering

Overengineering is a slur that just refers to things that don't work. It has nothing to do with whether something is simple or complex. Because the people who use words like "overengineered" are often not actually engineers.

Which is what I interpret purp as saying with the sentence I bolded.

A 25mm loading system is not interchangeable with a 50mm loading system.

Better not adopt the 50mm because it would require work.

The end result of your radical philosophy of simplicity or whatever is just entrenched and institutionalized laziness/apathy.

but it’s intelligent enough to watch global trends and then jump full force on the bandwagon with a vengeance when it’s correctly read which way the winds are blowing.

So is Brazil. Not exactly "superpower" material there.

If the 40-mm CTA feeding mechanism is simpler

You can literally look at the patent and see for yourself lmfao.

[Gallia-]

[The Wyoming Peoples Front]

Recently I found 9x Cadillac Gage Commandos, what would be good application for them?

[Laritaia]

Recently I found 9x Cadillac Gage Commandos, what would be good application for them?

security and light protected mobility tasks.

[Vyzhva]

Recently I found 9x Cadillac Gage Commandos, what would be good application for them?

security and light protected mobility tasks.

btr-40 :^)

[Purpelia]

BRDM best road car.

[Seceria]

AMX 50 welded hull combined with a vaguely Schmalturm-derived turret.

[Reorganized Soviet Union]

Looks kinda Japanese to me but it's certainly cool.

[New Antonalia]

If you don't know that South Africa is a vassal of the PRC, then there's no use trying to teach you such a basic fact, because it's one step above "find these places on a map" tier knowledge.

While South Africa didn't have a war about it or anything, it still collapsed into total communist alignment like Zimbabwe/Rhodesia, Angola, and Mozambique did.

The only difference is that for the time being, and probably during the next world war, the United States Army will still step on South Africa like a bug.

Okay, I apologize. I was going off of knowledge I gathered from when I was living overseas and from the people in the diplomatic/Military Academic circles I've talked with I was under the impression that South Africa (which was traditionally a US ally) was still under the US/NATO Sphere of Influence.

[Reorganized Soviet Union]

Gallia can be indistinguishable from a Chinese nationalist sometimes.

[Gallia-]

If you don't know that South Africa is a vassal of the PRC, then there's no use trying to teach you such a basic fact, because it's one step above "find these places on a map" tier knowledge.

While South Africa didn't have a war about it or anything, it still collapsed into total communist alignment like Zimbabwe/Rhodesia, Angola, and Mozambique did.

The only difference is that for the time being, and probably during the next world war, the United States Army will still step on South Africa like a bug.

Okay, I apologize. I was going off of knowledge I gathered from when I was living overseas and from the people in the diplomatic/Military Academic circles I've talked with I was under the impression that South Africa (which was traditionally a US ally) was still under the US/NATO Sphere of Influence.

It was never in America's sphere of influence in the past 40 years. So unless you were talking to someone contemporary with like...LBJ, Nixon, or Kissinger maybe. It's been an American enemy since Carter, more or less. South Africa basically went from "no friends" during apartheid era, although still being anti-communist (and thus, anti-Chinese and anti-Soviet), to "Chinese vassal" with Mandela. Arguably its foreign policy was better in the apartheid era, since it could have been a useful American ally, but its internal politics precluded anything less than a full slide towards Chinese servitude.

So now Denel will probably become a Chinese owned corporation when Rooivalk fails and totally destroys it. No big loss, though, unless Western defense contractors refuse to renege on contracts with whatever Communist Party entity wears the name of Denel. Which they probably will, since Westerners care more about labels, laws, and legalities than pragmatics.

But we're talking about a country whose basis of its very economy (mining) has been owned by the Communist Party for the better part of a decade. When the USA is pushed off Africa and forced to import natural resources from nothing but Chinese owned companies, it'll be extremely easy to destroy America and liberal capitalism through a policy mostly identical to the Containment of the 1950s against the Soviet Union, ironically enough, unless it annexes Canada and becomes truly energy independent.

But that requires Canada fall apart first. Or for Homo Economicus to be true for North Americans...which it might be!

Truly the greatest war planner of our times.

Thankfully Americans are more moralistic than homo economicus, so I think they will not bother retreating from Eurasia entirely. At least not Europe, we've simply stuck in Europe for far too long to leave. Asia is a different matter, since we might not actually care enough about them to invade Duterteland and liberate it for bases. We've simply lost the ability to do it properly. But we'll settle for partying in Da Nang and turning Guam into a Doom Fortress.

Gallia can be indistinguishable from a Chinese nationalist sometimes.

Only if you're illiterate.

Sure, I'm M-L and that makes it blindingly obvious to me how the PRC thinks on certain things, and I am pro-Chinese simply because of their naturally higher IQ than European average, but I'm not pro-PRC. I'd prefer this:

1) It's hilarious.
2) The ROC is less of a Romanesque kleptocracy than the PRC.

[New Antonalia]

Okay, I apologize. I was going off of knowledge I gathered from when I was living overseas and from the people in the diplomatic/Military Academic circles I've talked with I was under the impression that South Africa (which was traditionally a US ally) was still under the US/NATO Sphere of Influence.

It was never in America's sphere of influence in the past 40 years. So unless you were talking to someone contemporary with like...LBJ, Nixon, or Kissinger maybe. It's been an American enemy since Carter, more or less. South Africa basically went from "no friends" during apartheid era, although still being anti-communist (and thus, anti-Chinese and anti-Soviet), to "Chinese vassal" with Mandela. Arguably its foreign policy was better in the apartheid era, since it could have been a useful American ally, but its internal politics precluded anything less than a full slide towards Chinese servitude.

So now Denel will probably become a Chinese owned corporation when Rooivalk fails and totally destroys it. No big loss, though, unless Western defense contractors refuse to renege on contracts with whatever Communist Party entity wears the name of Denel. Which they probably will, since Westerners care more about labels, laws, and legalities than pragmatics.

But we're talking about a country whose basis of its very economy (mining) has been owned by the Communist Party for the better part of a decade. When the USA is pushed off Africa and forced to import natural resources from nothing but Chinese owned companies, it'll be extremely easy to destroy America and liberal capitalism through a policy mostly identical to the Containment of the 1950s against the Soviet Union, ironically enough, unless it annexes Canada and becomes truly energy independent.

However, that would require the United States to severe pretty much all ties with local strongmen I mean Democratically elected leaders and cut out lucrative deals. That is something that pretty much won't happen due to how important those resources are (especially the United States either does not have the industry in place to extract our remaining mineral resources or have completely played out what we do have). Also you don't take into account that the United States had several key allies in the region, mainly Kenya and Nigeria which have their own microspheres of Influence in East and West Africa and with the help of the United States, can resist China's expanding influence in the area.

[Gallia-]

especially the United States either does not have the industry in place

The United States has plenty of industry. What foreigners own, Congress can expropriate, and American industry can expand to meet the needs of the long war ex nihilo. It is not ideal, but the United States is far from helpless.

It's not like (modern) Sweden or Israel, which rely entirely on external support.

However, that would require the United States to severe pretty much all ties with local strongmen I mean Democratically elected leaders and cut out lucrative deals.

Africa has nothing the United States wants except basing rights. We can take those with our naval tonnage and the Air Force if we have to. Hardly a big deal. The USA is half heartedly trying to "contain" the Chinese without realizing that it's being outmaneuvered because it increasingly has little to offer and is too miserly to put up big bucks. Were it more forceful or aggressive in countering Chinese maneuvers it would be able to beat them easily and isolate them back to their homeland by building a ring of Steel around the PRC and Russia.

ATM the USA has to do five or six major things to contain the Chinese, it fully realizes these things, and it is trying the best it can to accomplish them within its current limitations.

In no particular order:

1) Reinforce European NATO and keep the Bear in his cage.
2) Court India/Afghanistan, win the Great Game, and keep the Russians/Chinese out of Central Asia. Maybe rend the CISFTA a bit by pulling away a couple Caucasus states.
3) Reinforce the East Asian Ring of Steel i.e. Japan/Korea/Vietnam/Philippines/Guam. Keep the Chinese out of Singapore and Philippines if at all possible. Build up Vietnam. If we can't have the Philippines, we'll take Palau.
4) Push the Chinese out of Africa to the fullest extent possible. Djibouti is troubling to American war planners enough, so that is a critical area, and so is South Africa to a lesser extent.
5) Sustain the Monroe Doctrine.
6) Keep the Chinese from accessing Middle Eastern oil by isolating Iran i.e. ensuring Saudi Arabia wins the cold war.

#6 will be shunted to the British and the Royal Navy when the 2nd QE is launched and the responsibility of keeping the Chinese out of the Middle East becomes theirs. That leaves America with Africa, Asia, and Europe, and keeping South America under lock and key. Once you've rolled back the Chinese from these places, you can put them under lockdown completely until their government collapses.

Then it's ROC all the way baby. Chinese Civil War 1927-2127 over.

[New Antonalia]

especially the United States either does not have the industry in place

The United States has plenty of industry. What foreigners own, Congress can expropriate, and American industry can expand to meet the needs of the long war ex nihilo. It is not ideal, but the United States is far from helpless.

It's not like (modern) Sweden or Israel, which rely entirely on external support.

However, that would require the United States to severe pretty much all ties with local strongmen I mean Democratically elected leaders and cut out lucrative deals.

Africa has nothing the United States wants except basing rights. We can take those with our naval tonnage and the Air Force if we have to. Hardly a big deal.

Africa actually has a great deal of mineral resources that the United States needs... though since we're on this topic, let me direct you to a lecture I had the courtesy of sitting in on in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIOmhJkwNm0 Col. Sheperd brings up good points regard China's influence in areas such as Eastern and Southern Africa as well as strategies on how NATO and the United States can counter this influence.

[Gallia-]

The United States has plenty of industry. What foreigners own, Congress can expropriate, and American industry can expand to meet the needs of the long war ex nihilo. It is not ideal, but the United States is far from helpless.

It's not like (modern) Sweden or Israel, which rely entirely on external support.



Africa has nothing the United States wants except basing rights. We can take those with our naval tonnage and the Air Force if we have to. Hardly a big deal.

Africa actually has a great deal of mineral resources that the United States needs...

No, it doesn't. What few resources are actually accessible are fairly small and mostly precious metals. The United States has plenty of mineral wealth, it just doesn't bother extracting it because, for now, it's cheaper to buy from Africa. Or Australia. Or the PRC. Or Saudi Arabia. When the time comes, we will strip mine the Rockies and build a bridge over the man-made Continental Rift.

The only problem is that people like Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk might actually win and the United States surrenders completely to PRC rule. Social Credit Scores for everyone and a commissar on every Million Program apartment flat.

[Vyzhva]

Africa actually has a great deal of mineral resources that the United States needs...

No, it doesn't. What few resources are actually accessible are fairly small and mostly precious metals. The United States has plenty of mineral wealth, it just doesn't bother extracting it because, for now, it's cheaper to buy from Africa. Or Australia. Or the PRC. Or Saudi Arabia. When the time comes, we will strip mine the Rockies and build a bridge over the man-made Continental Rift.

The only problem is that people like Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk might actually win and the United States surrenders completely to PRC rule. Social Credit Scores for everyone and a commissar on every Million Program apartment flat.

apparently there are million program apartment flats in sweden

but why wouldn't there be, i guess (well uh, this)