Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation Mk X

[Xia-]

That's the job of helicoptermen.

[The Manticoran Empire]

So what's a good structure for airborne troops?

What do you want to do? Find something that does similar things to that.

VDV is OK to copy if you can only afford to fly over the border to your neighbor and invade them.
American airborne is OK if you want to fly all over the world and step on terrorists or w/e.

That's the easiest way. The other way is to worldbuild fully.

Well in my region I RP as America. I'm just wanting to make sure I don't fuck them up.

[The Manticoran Empire]

Would the CV90 be a worthy replacement for the Bradley in lieu of the Puma?

[Laritaia]

Would the CV90 be a worthy replacement for the Bradley in lieu of the Puma?

the fatter later versions maybe

[The Manticoran Empire]

Would the CV90 be a worthy replacement for the Bradley in lieu of the Puma?

the fatter later versions maybe

Explain.

[The Akasha Colony]

the fatter later versions maybe

Explain.

The early versions of CV90 were very austere, lacking a number of fairly basic and important features, like stabilizers.

The later versions, including the ones on sale now, have been beefed up significantly with better armor and newer electronics, as well as a range of new armament options.

The only problem is that Bradley has also received a lot of these same upgrades, so there's no real point in replacing Bradley with CV90 because they have similar capabilities and are of similar age. Bradley is a 1970s IFV and CV90 is a 1980s IFV, while Puma is a 2000s IFV and is therefore decades newer in basic design than either CV90 or Bradley.

[The Manticoran Empire]

Explain.

The early versions of CV90 were very austere, lacking a number of fairly basic and important features, like stabilizers.

The later versions, including the ones on sale now, have been beefed up significantly with better armor and newer electronics, as well as a range of new armament options.

The only problem is that Bradley has also received a lot of these same upgrades, so there's no real point in replacing Bradley with CV90 because they have similar capabilities and are of similar age. Bradley is a 1970s IFV and CV90 is a 1980s IFV, while Puma is a 2000s IFV and is therefore decades newer in basic design than either CV90 or Bradley.

However RSG calls for the use of a medium chassis for an AGS, IFV, and mortar system. CV90 has that. Puma and Bradley do not.

[Xia-]

RSG is chock full of other silly ideas too.

[The Akasha Colony]

However RSG calls for the use of a medium chassis for an AGS, IFV, and mortar system. CV90 has that. Puma and Bradley do not.

RSG is literally supposed to be built on Puma.

It is not hard to modify a given vehicle for a whole range of uses. At one point the US Army was considering replacing a huge number of their tracked support vehicles with Bradley variants and even developed prototypes. Only M270 ended up making it into service though due to cost issues, although the current M109A7 is basically a Bradley variant now anyway.

[The Manticoran Empire]

However RSG calls for the use of a medium chassis for an AGS, IFV, and mortar system. CV90 has that. Puma and Bradley do not.

RSG is literally supposed to be built on Puma.

I've spent the last three or four hours looking at the proposal. It is true that the Puma is the preferred platform, however it is not the only possibility.

[The Akasha Colony]

RSG is literally supposed to be built on Puma.

I've spent the last three or four hours looking at the proposal. It is true that the Puma is the preferred platform, however it is not the only possibility.

Puma is the preferred platform because it's the newest and highest-capability medium-weight platform available. Puma has more room for growth and can carry more armor/weapons/sensors or whatever else you want.

If you're going to be buying thousands of new vehicles for a radical reorganization, you may as well buy the best you can find. And if you're writing a blue-sky proposal that has zero chance of being adopted like Macgregor is, you might as well choose the same because it makes your proposal look better.

There is nothing inherent about CV90 that magically makes it more adaptable than Puma or Bradley. All three are just metal boxes on tracks. You may as well buy the newest one.

[Xia-]

RSG is literally supposed to be built on Puma.

I've spent the last three or four hours looking at the proposal. It is true that the Puma is the preferred platform, however it is not the only possibility.

Puma is just a meme wagon. It's the Strf 90 of the teens.

He forgot tanks existed. And howitzers. And electronic/cyber attack carriers. And radio direction finders. RSG is a bad idea in sum. Making a mechanized infantry division without tanks, EW, and howitzers, and renaming it 'brigade' is not very good, smart, or cool. It's pretty lame. The powerpoint's most notable contribution is pointing out that the current menagerie of HF-UHF commo (SINGCARS, EPLRS, TROJAN, etc.) is "old as hell", giving everyone SHORADS, and bulking up the currently anemic U.S. Army logistics troops by 75% "more dudes" or whatever.

He forgets that missiles exist, though. Stinger stapled to a Skyranger (or better, the current 50mm thing the U.S. Army wants) would be the best overall system. It could handle the UAS and C-RAM/munition threat. NASAMS is a bit too meaty to be "wasting" on things like attack helicopters IMO but maybe I'm just an old fogey.

[United Mercenary Firms]

Why was the Panhard AML 'only' equipped with a light mortar?

Why was the mortar variant of the Panhard AML armored car 'only' equipped with a 60 mm mortar (rather than e.g. an 81 or 120 mm mortar)? Was this the largest size that was technically feasible or was it done for tactical reasons?

[Weimarer Reich]

Had the USSR not collapsed would the Leopard 2-140 end up finalized? I mean that's what I'm doing (and compared to the Metal Gear nonsense I added mostly for fun is pretty reasonable) but would it actually be feasible (with an auto-loader of course)?

Why was the Panhard AML 'only' equipped with a light mortar?

Why was the mortar variant of the Panhard AML armored car 'only' equipped with a 60 mm mortar (rather than e.g. an 81 or 120 mm mortar)? Was this the largest size that was technically feasible or was it done for tactical reasons?

Well I suppose there's the higher ROF (at least in Wargame RD which is why I use it).

[Allanea]

What is the rate of accidental veihcle loss appropriate for a first-world nation's army operating under combat conditions?

[The Akasha Colony]

Had the USSR not collapsed would the Leopard 2-140 end up finalized? I mean that's what I'm doing (and compared to the Metal Gear nonsense I added mostly for fun is pretty reasonable) but would it actually be feasible (with an auto-loader of course)?

Not as such. Leopard 2 would have required very substantial modifications to accept a 140 mm gun because its ammunition storage was never designed for rounds that long. The actual Leopard 2-140 that was built was a test vehicle to identify other issues and modifications that would be needed for KWS III, which was a more substantial overhaul that was never finalized.

[Weimarer Reich]

I know, I mostly meant if they would have bothered to do it at all. I know the 140 prototype was just to test the gun (didn't even have an auto-loader) so the final design would no doubt have an entirely new turret right?

[Xia-]

If NATO got wind of Object 148 we would have Block III Abrams, Leclerc-140, and Leopard 3. The British might make a tank but it's impossible to say how it would look since they gutted their entire MIC to the gods of capitalism in the '90s.

[Dostanuot Loj]

Why was the Panhard AML 'only' equipped with a light mortar?

Why was the mortar variant of the Panhard AML armored car 'only' equipped with a 60 mm mortar (rather than e.g. an 81 or 120 mm mortar)? Was this the largest size that was technically feasible or was it done for tactical reasons?

The AML's primary role was rear security, so it's intended targets were at best airborne infantry, and more likely partisans. The 60mm provided the best punch for this role in direct and indirect fire capabilities. That would be why when it was eventually replaced on some models, it was by a 20mm cannon.

[Weimarer Reich]

I was thinking of the Tiger A6 (in my nation's timeline the Leo 2 is called the Kpz Tiger, A6 is basically a full production Leo 2 140) being made in response to (slightly exaggerated) claims by a soviet defector of a new 152 mm armed tank in development. Though there's also the A6E which is the same thing but keeping the normal 120 mm L/55 and a human loader for export.

[The Manticoran Empire]

If NATO got wind of Object 148 we would have Block III Abrams, Leclerc-140, and Leopard 3. The British might make a tank but it's impossible to say how it would look since they gutted their entire MIC to the gods of capitalism in the '90s.

Well, we got word of it. Just after the Russians released it to the world.

[The Akasha Colony]

I know, I mostly meant if they would have bothered to do it at all.

Probably. The Germans have done a fairly good job keeping Leopard 2 updated since the end of the Cold War within their more limited means. Certainly better than the British have done.

I know the 140 prototype was just to test the gun (didn't even have an auto-loader) so the final design would no doubt have an entirely new turret right?

Probably a new turret and rather substantial rearrangement of the hull as well. Leopard 2 has a bunch of equipment in the turret bustle presently that would need to be moved to the hull to accommodate the ammunition, and the hull ammo storage would have to eliminated because it would no longer be useful. So functionally a new tank, more or less.

[Xia-]

If NATO got wind of Object 148 we would have Block III Abrams, Leclerc-140, and Leopard 3. The British might make a tank but it's impossible to say how it would look since they gutted their entire MIC to the gods of capitalism in the '90s.

Well, we got word of it. Just after the Russians released it to the world.

The Soviet Union collapsed 26 years ago. The next 20 years were spent thinking, without a hint of irony, "the Russians are our friend". Who could have possibly guessed that the greatest single enemy to the West was not a bunch of children with AKMs running around in Afghanistan being paid by a small bunch of hooligans from Saudi Arabia, but an industrial regional power with a massive nuclear arsenal, a long memory, ruled by a man with a grudge who worked for the KGB and saw his country destroyed by the West and its safety eroded by encroaching Western imperialists?! Certainly not the entire collective population of NATO, save one.

Romney_was_right.tga

[The Manticoran Empire]

Well, we got word of it. Just after the Russians released it to the world.

The Soviet Union collapsed 26 years ago. The next 20 years were spent thinking, without a hint of irony, "the Russians are our friend". Who could have possibly guessed that the greatest single enemy to the West was not a bunch of children with AKMs running around in Afghanistan being paid by a small bunch of hooligans from Saudi Arabia, but an industrial regional power with a massive nuclear arsenal, a long memory, ruled by a man with a grudge who worked for the KGB and saw his country destroyed by the West and its safety eroded by encroaching Western imperialists?! Certainly not the entire collective population of NATO, save one.

Romney_was_right.tga

NATO looked at the Soviet collapse and saw it's greatest adversary slip into the depths of economic despair and its military was seen as impotent. Unfortunately Putin turned Russia around. The Russian Navy is still impotent but the Russian Army is a force to be reckoned with, the Russian Air Force is certainly formidable, and the Russian Nuclear Arsenal, quite literally, has no equal. China has been cozying up to Russia and pushing for more control over the South China Sea and is set to become a major economic and military power in the region. Meanwhile the United States and NATO have refocused their armies for counter-insurgency conflicts and brushfire wars, as opposed to conflict with peer nations like China and Russia.

[Xia-]

The Soviet Union collapsed 26 years ago. The next 20 years were spent thinking, without a hint of irony, "the Russians are our friend". Who could have possibly guessed that the greatest single enemy to the West was not a bunch of children with AKMs running around in Afghanistan being paid by a small bunch of hooligans from Saudi Arabia, but an industrial regional power with a massive nuclear arsenal, a long memory, ruled by a man with a grudge who worked for the KGB and saw his country destroyed by the West and its safety eroded by encroaching Western imperialists?! Certainly not the entire collective population of NATO, save one.

Romney_was_right.tga

NATO looked at the Soviet collapse and saw it's greatest adversary slip into the depths of economic despair and its military was seen as impotent. Unfortunately Putin turned Russia around.

No he didn't and they just got lazy. Western countries have always been short sighted and incapable of seeing past next week, though. Only Israel has some modicum of foresight and that's probably because it's facing genocide.