Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation Mk X

[Dostanuot Loj]

Why not just do the Simpkin thing and fit an extended bladder to the roof with water if it is absolutely necessary, or the Israel thing and attach a 1.5 ton water trailer to one of the IFVs?

Beyond this Allanea's answer is having a developed logistics force including (as Sumer referenced) water drilling equipment, as well as operational-level water pipelines and logistics drones, it's difficult to envisoin a situation in which people will be without water resupply for more than 3 days, and an infantry unit can easily carry 3 day's worth of water on their vehicles, trucks, or hatnot.

I do those too, both actually, including more conventional jerry cans and built in drinking water tanks. But storage and replenishment are different. Water replenishment, in the Sumerian context, gets problematic. There are abundant resources of surface water in some times and some places, and usually underground aquifers too. But Sumer does not always expect to fight in the rainy/floody season, and likewise tries really hard not to fight on its own breadbasket soil. So while its prepared to fight in the farmlands criss-crossed in canals, and willing to do it to an extent, it wants to keep that fight out in the drier badlands where surface water exists in vast quantities, but only in the rainy season with flash floods.

This leads to two major approaches to this:

1: Carry a lot of water. Which Sumerian units do by default. In fact they operate more extensively cut off from supply and carry more of everything organically. This provides a lot of issues itself, but the nature of warfare on the open plains dictates it. So operationally practically every vehicle in a division is loaded with excessive water, fuel, ammo, food, etc.

2: Because of extensive gaps in supply lines, get what you can from the land. This manifests itself in many ways, for water it is simply to be able to tap into what is available. For things like fuel it gets more complicated, with a concerted effort between the ministry of war and ministry of agriculture to heavily subsidize and encourage farmers to store the appropriate fuel types in large amounts for AFVs. This leads to farm tractors running on military grade diesel, supplied at a heavy discount from the government, held in larger then needed quantities by farmers in tanks the government subsidized the construction and maintenance of.

This, along with other approaches, allows logistical support to draw much further. Sumer sees daytime temperatures in the summer in the mid 40s centigrade so water consumption is important. Although air conditioning has reduced this of course.

[Gallia-]

One time Galla fought in a really hot place and it almost fainted. WBGT was like 20 C. Literally Hell on Earth.

It vowed to never allow this to occur again and rapidly accelerated procurement of mass water production means which were fielded beginning in the 1980s with combined air conditioning/ABC overpressure/condenser systems on tanks and IFVs. This gets expanded in the 2010s with the addition of externally mounted and man-portable atmospheric water distillers that use atmospheric humidity.

[Allanea]

Here's the thing I question:

A mechanized infantry battalion is typically limited to 3 day's ammuniton, fuel, and spare parts' stores. Light infantry have a slightly lesser requirement, but conversely their ability to carry the supplies is limited too.

Because you absolutely need to resupply these things - spare parts and ammunition and fuel don't grow on trees, you can bring up the water and food alongside the resupply you're already doing, as the weight of water and food compared to the resupply mass in general is tiny. It is difficult to contrive a situation where an infantry unit cannot resupply the ammunition but somehow can effectively fight for an extended period, and if you have some unit stranded behind enemy lines and you're airdropping the ammo to them or something, you can also bring in the water. If you can install some kind of water generator thing on your tanks that's neat I guess but it doesn't really solve the problem.

[Dostanuot Loj]

Here's the thing I question:

A mechanized infantry battalion is typically limited to 3 day's ammuniton, fuel, and spare parts' stores. Light infantry have a slightly lesser requirement, but conversely their ability to carry the supplies is limited too.

Because you absolutely need to resupply these things - spare parts and ammunition and fuel don't grow on trees, you can bring up the water and food alongside the resupply you're already doing, as the weight of water and food compared to the resupply mass in general is tiny. It is difficult to contrive a situation where an infantry unit cannot resupply the ammunition but somehow can effectively fight for an extended period, and if you have some unit stranded behind enemy lines and you're airdropping the ammo to them or something, you can also bring in the water. If you can install some kind of water generator thing on your tanks that's neat I guess but it doesn't really solve the problem.

It's generally the ability to allot that limited mass and space to other things then food and water. Or that's how I see it.
Bu Sumer goes through absurd amounts of water due to its nature. Every little bit counts.

Although I agree on the AC condenser thing, in general. and I think you are directing this more to Gayla than me.

[Gallia-]

Here's the thing I question:

A mechanized infantry battalion is typically limited to 3 day's ammuniton, fuel, and spare parts' stores. Light infantry have a slightly lesser requirement, but conversely their ability to carry the supplies is limited too.

Because you absolutely need to resupply these things - spare parts and ammunition and fuel don't grow on trees, you can bring up the water and food alongside the resupply you're already doing, as the weight of water and food compared to the resupply mass in general is tiny. It is difficult to contrive a situation where an infantry unit cannot resupply the ammunition but somehow can effectively fight for an extended period, and if you have some unit stranded behind enemy lines and you're airdropping the ammo to them or something, you can also bring in the water. If you can install some kind of water generator thing on your tanks that's neat I guess but it doesn't really solve the problem.

The difference is that your "water generator" can translate an hour into 90 liters of water. Or more. This is enough for a mechanized infantry squad in an M2A1 Bradley to sustain themselves for one day, presumably in a temperate, European climate with mild working pace. Which means you can replace one day's worth of water carried on the vehicle with something far more useful (say, fuel) and retain the same amount of water, three days, because you can replenish one day of water in about an hour or so provided the air conditioner's condenser works.

Conversely, the need to transport less water means you can convert trucks that carry water at higher levels of supply into more fuel or ammunition. Or eliminate them entirely and increase the tooth:tail ratio of the ground troops, improving their tempo and mobility. You have fewer trucks following the same amount of carriers, which means the roads are filled to a smaller capacity (or smaller overcapacity), which means that the time to move things is generally reduced, by however much time those water trucks would take.

This costs about 30 kilograms and about half a meter cubed. Or 12 kilograms, a backpack, and a pond of stagnant water if you're paratroopers. A truck probably weighs at least 5,000 kilograms empty and is much bigger volume than half a meter cubed, so there's a huge benefit towards mobility in literally any environment. Fewer trucks using the same roads means you drive faster, no matter where you are.

This seems fairly obvious and intuitive to me. I'm not sure why you seem to have trouble grasping the concept.

[Allanea]

Is this the device you guys are talking about?

[Dostanuot Loj]

Here's the thing I question:

A mechanized infantry battalion is typically limited to 3 day's ammuniton, fuel, and spare parts' stores. Light infantry have a slightly lesser requirement, but conversely their ability to carry the supplies is limited too.

Because you absolutely need to resupply these things - spare parts and ammunition and fuel don't grow on trees, you can bring up the water and food alongside the resupply you're already doing, as the weight of water and food compared to the resupply mass in general is tiny. It is difficult to contrive a situation where an infantry unit cannot resupply the ammunition but somehow can effectively fight for an extended period, and if you have some unit stranded behind enemy lines and you're airdropping the ammo to them or something, you can also bring in the water. If you can install some kind of water generator thing on your tanks that's neat I guess but it doesn't really solve the problem.

The difference is that your "water generator" can translate an hour into 90 liters of water. Or more. This is enough for a mechanized infantry squad in an M2A1 Bradley to sustain themselves for one day, presumably in a temperate, European climate with mild working pace. Which means you can replace one day's worth of water carried on the vehicle with something far more useful (say, fuel) and retain the same amount of water, three days, because you can replenish one day of water in about an hour or so provided the air conditioner's condenser works.

This seems fairly obvious and intuitive to me. I'm not sure why you seem to have trouble grasping the concept.

You are making assumptions based on relative humidity. what level of humidity is required to attain this production, and how does it change based on that relative humidity.

There is a vast difference in atmospheric humidity between a rainforest and say the savanna.

[Gallia-]

The difference is that your "water generator" can translate an hour into 90 liters of water. Or more. This is enough for a mechanized infantry squad in an M2A1 Bradley to sustain themselves for one day, presumably in a temperate, European climate with mild working pace. Which means you can replace one day's worth of water carried on the vehicle with something far more useful (say, fuel) and retain the same amount of water, three days, because you can replenish one day of water in about an hour or so provided the air conditioner's condenser works.

This seems fairly obvious and intuitive to me. I'm not sure why you seem to have trouble grasping the concept.

You are making assumptions based on relative humidity. what level of humidity is required to attain this production,

So what? There's humidity in deserts, too.

Produces 40 liters (10.5 gallons) per day, at 25°C (77°F) and 55%
relative humidity.

Can produce up to 80 liters (21 gallons) per day under optimal
conditions.

Can purify up to 8 liters/hour (2.5 gallons/hour) of water produced
by the air conditioning unit of the vehicle.

The fact that you can shave any amount of water without actually losing any hydration is a benefit. Even a water filled canteen that can be traded for a couple magazines of rifle ammunition is worth it if it only takes swapping out an ink pen or marker, or making one man carrying a radio-sized object in his rucksack can make every single man in his platoon carry one less canteen.

The only time it wouldn't be worth if is it there were the wildly unrealistic prospect of giving every man a water purifier that can only fill up a single canteen a day but is the size of a backpack.

Is this the device you guys are talking about?

Not literally but it's what gave me the idea.

It's enough utility for Israel and France to put in their armored vehicles.

[Dostanuot Loj]

You are making assumptions based on relative humidity. what level of humidity is required to attain this production,

So what? There's humidity in deserts, too.

Produces 40 liters (10.5 gallons) per day, at 25°C (77°F) and 55%
relative humidity.

Can produce up to 80 liters (21 gallons) per day under optimal
conditions.

Can purify up to 8 liters/hour (2.5 gallons/hour) of water produced
by the air conditioning unit of the vehicle.

I'm interested in your research on this, and what you've come up with, not directly attacking you. I like the idea, and if I was still going for MAXIMUMAWESOME for Sumer I would be all over it.

That, and the relative humidity in Sumer in the dry season tends to be below 15%. What sort of water could such a system pull from that?

[The Akasha Colony]

IMPORTANT QUESTION FOR SPERGS: How many liters of water can your IFVs distill per man-hour from atmosphere/AC? Gallan IFVs have been retrofitted with condenser and a water distiller that can produce 3 man-gallons of water daily from atmosphere and from the condenser. Gallan tanks have a much smaller unit that can distill/purify a similar quantity from the ABC purification/overpressure system.

Light infantry have packboard/radio pouch water filtration units that can distill 3 man-liters of water per platoon with a single radio battery. The platoon water girieboi carries an extra few batteries in his ruck. In addition to this, light infantrymen carry approximately 5-7 liters on their person, which supplies them with a hedge of ~8 hours water plus one full day, assuming that their workload is moderate and they are in temperate conditions. Chemical warfare in the blazing hot desert sun is not this, and troops fighting in a desert in chemical suits will probably be effective for only about 5-6 hours of sustained exercise (read: moving), with a full load of water, batteries, and available water sources.

tl;dr It's literally Watergen's dumb shit. Pushing 1171 down to the platoon level. WATER DOGS OORAH

e: Battle serafukus are standard wear for desert fighting because army of otokonoko will CRUSH cyber monglol BMP herders.

I had considered the idea before calculating my units' water lift capacity and then decided to roll them out when it became clear that there was a shortfall of water lift compared to other supply classes. It was a convenient way to offset the shortage without having to add men and trucks and therefore recalculate the vehicle and manpower totals. All modern Carthaginian AFVs have beefy air conditioning systems anyway to keep troops (and increasingly their electronics) reasonably comfortable in desert and jungle conditions. I hadn't given any thought to man-portable systems though since I haven't gotten around to really giving light infantry any thought.

[Gallia-]

So what? There's humidity in deserts, too.

I'm interested in your research on this, and what you've come up with, not directly attacking you. I like the idea, and if I was still going for MAXIMUMAWESOME for Sumer I would be all over it.

That, and the relative humidity in Sumer in the dry season tends to be below 15%. What sort of water could such a system pull from that?

Call Water-Gen and ask them? It's literally from their brochure.

[Laritaia]

H drives: we all know that Stalwart and the rest of the FV 600 series had driveline windup issues. Was this also the case for the DAF trucks and the YP-408? What did Iveco/BAE do with Centauro and the SuperAV that it's not an issue?

By using more complicated and expensive differentials in the drivetrain.

the stalwart was a British vehicle and therefore suffers from penny pinching just like all the others.

[Dostanuot Loj]

I'm interested in your research on this, and what you've come up with, not directly attacking you. I like the idea, and if I was still going for MAXIMUMAWESOME for Sumer I would be all over it.

That, and the relative humidity in Sumer in the dry season tends to be below 15%. What sort of water could such a system pull from that?

Call Water-Gen and ask them? It's literally from their brochure.

I was hoping you had done more research I could mooch off of.

[Gallia-]

Do I look like an HVAC design engineer?

[The Akasha Colony]

That, and the relative humidity in Sumer in the dry season tends to be below 15%. What sort of water could such a system pull from that?

Not a lot, because it's well below the threshold at which cooling condensers are efficient, which is ~30+% humidity. This may be offset by the higher ambient temperatures which give back a modicum of efficiency but not enough to make up for the humidity loss. I have no idea how to calculate an actual output figure though.

[Dostanuot Loj]

Do I look like an HVAC design engineer?

You look like an over-spergy fungi.

[Gallia-]

Do I look like an HVAC design engineer?

You look like an over-spergy fungi.

I am actually the reincarnation of the Sperg Onion.

Evidence:

1) The Sperg Onion was a sperg. Evidence:
- He only wanted to lineart the hottest tank, particle accelerator, and spaceship memes.
- He only wanted to *snuggle* various spergs around him because they were his only friends.
- He never wanted to hurt anyone but wasn't afraid to turn people into spergs.
- He only wanted to be left alone despite everyone else trying to drag him out to parties.

2) The Sperg Onion had a depressive personality. Evidence:
- After his outgoing and adventuresome youth, and quite a pedestrian one at that, he became witness to a traumatic event that shaped the rest of his life.
- The traumatic event became the focal point of the rest of his existence, haunting him for all his days in various guises, subtle and unsubtle.
- The baggage from this event caused him to decline in health over the years until he died of a massive heart attack at 74 years young.

If I die of a massive heart attack at 47 I will know that I am truly the Sperg Onion brought to life again.

[Dostanuot Loj]

You look like an over-spergy fungi.

I am actually the reincarnation of the Sperg Onion.

So I should start calling you comrade...?

[Gallia-]

I am actually the reincarnation of the Sperg Onion.

So I should start calling you comrade...?

Do I look like a gopnik? Just because I'm wearing a flat cap doesn't mean I'm a gopnik.

[Dostanuot Loj]

So I should start calling you comrade...?

Do I look like a gopnik? Just because I'm wearing a flat cap doesn't mean I'm a gopnik.

Kommisar?

You have quite the description of the USSR as a personality though.

[Gallia-]

rip sperg onion we miss him because we dont have a reason to sperg anymore

Do I look like a gopnik? Just because I'm wearing a flat cap doesn't mean I'm a gopnik.

Kommisar?

You have quite the description of the USSR as a personality though.

you could just use my name so "kat" works fine :\

[Allanea]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrr7hALh-N4

[Taihei Tengoku]

Anterran TT's meta-meme is Dune so there is a trial stillsuit that recycles urine and condensation

[Austrasien]

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a576788.pdf

Air? Who needs air?

There's water in the fuel tanks!

I know this paper is old but I've done follow-up and the good news is it works. The bad news is the water apparently tastes like what you would expect water recovered from fuel to taste like. But its perfectly safe and can recover 0.5 gallons of water per gallon of fuel burned.

[Gallia-]

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a576788.pdf

Air? Who needs air?

There's water in the fuel tanks!

I know this paper is old but I've done follow-up and the good news is it works. The bad news is the water apparently tastes like what you would expect water recovered from fuel to taste like. But its perfectly safe and can recover 0.5 gallons of water per gallon of fuel burned.

This is eggselent.

Finally something to replace the deep wading kit in MBT-70's expansion bay.