NationStates

There's no reason I knowq of it couldn't fit it. I mean, there might be some obscure reasons you might need to redesign the turret but basically everything can carry an ATGM launcher.

People have mounted ATGM launchers on Key trucks and Toyota Corolas after all.

Purpelia wrote:Basically this line of question stems from me wanting to find a realistic practical use for that mini MLRS I designed ages ago. I don't know if you guys remember. But it was basically a small box launcher with 8 x 22cm missile tubes that could fire either unguided HE or various guided rounds. And right now I am thinking of using it on the battalion level as a flexible fire support unit that could provide AT over watch or be configured to give the battalion one burst of fuckoff HE when they need it. Well, that's what I intended with it originally as well, but you get the picture.

Somehow I don't really see "220mm multiple rocket launcher" and "flexible battalion-level fire support" going in the same sentence.

The Soodean Imperium wrote:

Purpelia wrote:Basically this line of question stems from me wanting to find a realistic practical use for that mini MLRS I designed ages ago. I don't know if you guys remember. But it was basically a small box launcher with 8 x 22cm missile tubes that could fire either unguided HE or various guided rounds. And right now I am thinking of using it on the battalion level as a flexible fire support unit that could provide AT over watch or be configured to give the battalion one burst of fuckoff HE when they need it. Well, that's what I intended with it originally as well, but you get the picture.

Somehow I don't really see "220mm multiple rocket launcher" and "flexible battalion-level fire support" going in the same sentence.

Eh, just field an upgunned M50 Ontos.
Make it so it could either be used for breaching minefields, berms, fortifications, or delivering a somewhat MLRS/HIMARS style strike.

Completely removes need for 203mm guns, most assault/demolition vehicles, and possibly heavy tank destroyers.

'course I'd only have like six [rockets per launcher]...


...

Double-barreled 2S4 Tyulpan?

The Soodean Imperium wrote:

Purpelia wrote:Basically this line of question stems from me wanting to find a realistic practical use for that mini MLRS I designed ages ago. I don't know if you guys remember. But it was basically a small box launcher with 8 x 22cm missile tubes that could fire either unguided HE or various guided rounds. And right now I am thinking of using it on the battalion level as a flexible fire support unit that could provide AT over watch or be configured to give the battalion one burst of fuckoff HE when they need it. Well, that's what I intended with it originally as well, but you get the picture.

Somehow I don't really see "220mm multiple rocket launcher" and "flexible battalion-level fire support" going in the same sentence.

Think of it this way.
- It's a MLRS that can fire both guided missiles and smart munitions but also a wide variety of dumb rounds.
- It's small and therefore easy to conceal and mount on just about anything.
- It's ammunition is reasonably small (22cm x 150cm) and only weighs at between 63kg and 70kg per shell. Now that might sound like a lot but to my understanding that is about as much as a complete shell + propellant combo for a 155mm howitzer (Shell = 43kg¹, propellant = 9.5 kg per bag², up to 5 bags). And this means that it will be much, much, much²³ quicker and easier to rapidly reload than a conventional MLRS.

So yes, it is going to be very flexible in both what it can do and how quickly it can do it as well as how easily it can be brought to where it needs to do the doing and back out again.


1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M107_projectile
2. https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/fi ... 530596.pdf

Purpelia wrote:

The Soodean Imperium wrote:
Somehow I don't really see "220mm multiple rocket launcher" and "flexible battalion-level fire support" going in the same sentence.

Think of it this way.
- It's a MLRS that can fire both guided missiles and smart munitions but also a wide variety of dumb rounds.
- It's small and therefore easy to conceal and mount on just about anything.
- It's ammunition is reasonably small (22cm x 150cm) and only weighs at between 63kg and 70kg per shell. Now that might sound like a lot but to my understanding that is about as much as a complete shell + propellant combo for a 155mm howitzer (Shell = 43kg¹, propellant = 9.5 kg per bag², up to 5 bags). And this means that it will be much, much, much²³ quicker and easier to rapidly reload than a conventional MLRS.

So yes, it is going to be very flexible in both what it can do and how quickly it can do it as well as how easily it can be brought to where it needs to do the doing and back out again.


1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M107_projectile
2. https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/fi ... 530596.pdf

The problem again is that it feels like you're trying to invent a use to justify a need, rather than the other way around. It doesn't really do anything that other battalion fire support options don't already do and it isn't actually all that flexible because rockets by their nature are less flexible and less accurate than, say, a battery of mortars or whatever. This flexibility is more useful for a battalion than some "fuckoff HE" capability. All you've done is reinvent the Nebelwerfer but just as that weapon didn't take the battalion by storm, it seems this one is unlikely to as well.

And 63-70 kg is actually fairly substantial for a battalion weapon. Its immediate alternative, the trusty 120 mm mortar, has an all-up weight of only 14-15 kg including propellant charges and the mortar itself weighs less than a fifth what your rocket launcher weighs. The 155 mm pieces you are comparing it to are normally brigade or higher weapons and require either fairly substantial crews or large expensive autoloaded SPGs.

Don't MRLs also suffer from a long minimum range (and, of course, the inability to switch out propellant loads), largely limiting them to pre-planned fire missions? Presumably the biggest part of Battalion artillery's "flexibility" is the ability to quickly bring an HE barrage against an unexpected target or an enemy attack.

Granted, I'm a huge fan of excessively large multiple rocket launchers, but I don't see them working well below the divisional level (or in the linked case, the Field Army), let alone as a replacement for the celebrated mortar.

The Akasha Colony wrote:The problem again is that it feels like you're trying to invent a use to justify a need, rather than the other way around.

I can see why it might seem that way. Basically back when I designed that thing I had a vague idea of what I wanted to do with it. Than I designed that thing. But back than I was less articulate about the whole thing and knew a lot less about everything. As can be plainly seen from the thread...* So now I am revisiting the concept to see how much of those original ideas are worth it and how much should be thrown away and if there is anything left in the end. Either way if anything is left from this it is going to need a heavy revision to the design. No contesting that.
But I wont lie and say that I don't really, really, really want to find a way to make some part of it work as well.


* Like really. Originally I actually thought this thing could be made to replace the 12cm mortar by firing "smart" shells. Yea... nope.

It doesn't really do anything that other battalion fire support options don't already do and it isn't actually all that flexible because rockets by their nature are less flexible and less accurate than, say, a battery of mortars or whatever. This flexibility is more useful for a battalion than some "fuckoff HE" capability. All you've done is reinvent the Nebelwerfer but just as that weapon didn't take the battalion by storm, it seems this one is unlikely to as well.

Well, yes. This is pretty much a reinvention of the Nebelwerfer. I am not going to argue against that. I just made a modern fancy electronic one with computer control and guided shell to sort of bring it into the 21st century. I was hoping that this would make it more viable.


Anyway, how much of the concept is salvageable? Should I just turn it into a guided missile delivery system that has like an AT option and maybe a generic catch all PGM as an extra instead? That would bring it to being similar to the various VLS proposals people have been floating around here in years past. Alternatively I could just keep it as it is but only use it for niche roles where a light MLRS would make sense like say on board a river navy ship.

And 63-70 kg is actually fairly substantial for a battalion weapon. Its immediate alternative, the trusty 120 mm mortar, has an all-up weight of only 14-15 kg including propellant charges and the mortar itself weighs less than a fifth what your rocket launcher weighs. The 155 mm pieces you are comparing it to are normally brigade or higher weapons and require either fairly substantial crews or large expensive autoloaded SPGs.

I was under the impression that you could load 155mm manually just fine. Well decently fast by rocket artillery standards anyway. Newer mind either way though.

Purpelia wrote:Anyway, how much of the concept is salvageable? Should I just turn it into a guided missile delivery system that has like an AT option and maybe a generic catch all PGM as an extra instead? That would bring it to being similar to the various VLS proposals people have been floating around here in years past. Alternatively I could just keep it as it is but only use it for niche roles where a light MLRS would make sense like say on board a river navy ship.

I suppose it could be used as an ATGM launcher in the same fashion as the Israeli Pereh, but I'm not sure a battalion needs this much anti-tank fire support. 220 mm though is a pretty big caliber, probably bigger than it needs to be.

I was under the impression that you could load 155mm manually just fine. Well decently fast by rocket artillery standards anyway. Newer mind either way though.

155 mm guns are loaded in pieces, first the round is rammed, then the charge is loaded. Thus, no piece weighs more than ~40 kg, which can't be achieved with a rocket. And loading and ramming that 40 kg shell takes three men unless you have an autoloader.

Can a coincidence rangefinder's eyepiece be not in line with the tube? Like if the rangefinder was mounted on the cupola, could the eyepiece be underneath it inside the cupola.

Allanea wrote:There's no reason I knowq of it couldn't fit it. I mean, there might be some obscure reasons you might need to redesign the turret but basically everything can carry an ATGM launcher.

People have mounted ATGM launchers on Key trucks and Toyota Corolas after all.

Galla literally uses Kei vans to transport RBS 56 teams in its Hemvarnet battalions.

I thought that was important enough to mention because Kei cars are fucking snuggly af.

Gallan Systems wrote:Galla literally uses Kei vans to transport RBS 56 teams in its Hemvarnet battalions.

Galla.net.

Questers uses Pinzgaeurs and LRs. Mainly because Pinzgaeurs are also cute af.

Big ol cupola



I think I like binocular periscopes

Questers wrote:

Gallan Systems wrote:Galla literally uses Kei vans to transport RBS 56 teams in its Hemvarnet battalions.

Galla.net.

Questers uses Pinzgaeurs and LRs. Mainly because Pinzgaeurs are also cute af.

Not snuggly tho.

If you aren't giving a lap dance to at least two other men when you sit down, you're not small enough. ;-;

Comedy rollover crashes too.

Allanea wrote:

(Image)
This is what happens when you buy DPR from Padnak.

Cool camo bro

Fordorsia wrote:

Allanea wrote:

(Image)
This is what happens when you buy DPR from Padnak.

Cool camo bro

I kinda like how they solved the reloading issue by simply installing a step-stool rather than redesigning it to be a tilting breech-loader.

And then integrated it into a towable carriage.

Alt approach is to park a pickup-truck beside it.

Lack of elevation-adjustment means range is only performed by finely adjusting powder-load and projectile-fit.

Would it be possible to gun a Type 61 with something like D-10 or the L7? The ammunition isn't much bigger (esp. for L7), but I'm wondering if the Type 61 has a turret ring wide enough to take the gun.

Hurtful Thoughts wrote:

Fordorsia wrote:
Cool camo bro

Kinda like how they solved the reloading issue by simply installing a step-stool rather than redesigning it to be a tilting breech-loader.

Stepstools are common for heavy mortars. I think they use one for EFSS as well.

Taihei Tengoku wrote:Would it be possible to gun a Type 61 with something like D-10 or the L7? The ammunition isn't much bigger (esp. for L7), but I'm wondering if the Type 61 has a turret ring wide enough to take the gun.

Hurtful Thoughts wrote:Kinda like how they solved the reloading issue by simply installing a step-stool rather than redesigning it to be a tilting breech-loader.

Stepstools are common for heavy mortars. I think they use one for EFSS as well.

Yeah, but not integrated to the mount, and that's like a 170mm mortar.

The russian Zauralets 120mm mortar carrier looks kinda OP compared to other mortars, though.

Not 100% on what I'm trying to do with this. I guess a less giant poorly made M103 turret

Fordorsia wrote:Not 100% on what I'm trying to do with this. I guess a less giant poorly made M103 turret
(Image)

naw thats a french ww2 medium tank project turret

Time for seppuku

Fordorsia wrote:Time for seppuku

Livestream that?

Purpelia wrote:

Fordorsia wrote:Time for seppuku

Livestream that?

A good samurai commits seppuku naked :>

Fordorsia wrote:

Purpelia wrote:Livestream that?

A good samurai commits seppuku naked :>

I am pretty sure they don't.

You don't appreciate Asian culture like I do so how would you know?