Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation Mk X

[Purpelia]

RMK30 fires just as capable HE ammo as 40mm Bofors.

The difference is extremely minor. You could use the airburst projectiles from Puma if you wanted to, providing IFV level firepower in a TKS package.

I am not really sure how that is possible, I mean the shell is physically smaller. But yes, that is the idea. Get an IFV of firepower from a baby tank.

Wiesel AWC can actually kill AFVs too, since its a TOW carrier first.

Yea, but like every vehicle ever should be a TOW or equivalent carrier. So much so that it should go without saying. We were talking about main gun penetration.

[Laritaia]

I wish to pitch something to you. It's still an idea in the alpha stage but hear it out.

Imagine a light vehicle with a 2 man crew, both of which are seated inside a sealed and armored cabin at the front. The thing is very small, basically a modern tankette. It's armored against shell splinters and bullets only with a tad more armor (like we are talking 12.7 proof, maybe, if that) around the crew cabin. The whole thing would weigh about 5 tons, maybe. It's armed with an unmanned turret thing that has a 40mm autocanon.

The idea is to have an ultra-light fire support vehicle that can go anywhere be it by swim, airdrop or even helicopter and perform a similar role to the old combo of a jeep with a recoilles rifle on the back. And look cool whilst doing that.

You're very optimistic with the weight, this thing is about 10 tons and only just meets all of your criteria baring the 40mm

[Purpelia]

I wish to pitch something to you. It's still an idea in the alpha stage but hear it out.

Imagine a light vehicle with a 2 man crew, both of which are seated inside a sealed and armored cabin at the front. The thing is very small, basically a modern tankette. It's armored against shell splinters and bullets only with a tad more armor (like we are talking 12.7 proof, maybe, if that) around the crew cabin. The whole thing would weigh about 5 tons, maybe. It's armed with an unmanned turret thing that has a 40mm autocanon.

The idea is to have an ultra-light fire support vehicle that can go anywhere be it by swim, airdrop or even helicopter and perform a similar role to the old combo of a jeep with a recoilles rifle on the back. And look cool whilst doing that.

Something like that but way, way smaller. Like basically take the turret from that and stick it on a wiesel.

[Laritaia]

ok we're in 20 pounds of shit in a 10 pound bag territory here

the CRAB's bigger brother the Sphinx is 17 tons and just about carries a 40mm and a pair of spike missiles

[Gallia-]

Something like that but way, way smaller. Like basically take the turret from that and stick it on a wiesel.

Meanwhile Ford posts a Wiesel AWC and gets yelled at LoL.

40mm Bofors isn't that great.

30mm suffices TBH.

If you're willing to dump the shitty old gun but want to use the same projectiles, you can probably make a recoilless 40mm and mount it on an actual Wiesel-sized object.

Since you're throwing HE, high muzzle velocities aren't a big deal, and a recoilless automatic cannon can be done just look at RMK30.

So here is your solution:

Step 1) Take Wiesel AWC.
Step 2) Remove RMK30.
Step 3) Take 40mm 3P ammunition.
Step 4) Put into a large powder casing.
Step 5) Make a recoilless gun along the lines of RMK30, but in 40xWhatevermm to shoot your 3P rounds out of.
Step 6) Put gun and ammo on Wiesel AWC.
Step 7) Enjoy radar fused 40mm airburst for high explosive throwing.

Done.

[Purpelia]

Well ideally 40mm was going to be a gateway gun for... well god knows what in the future.
How big of a thing can I put on such a small hull? Like I don't suppose I could get away with a wiesel 105...

[Fordorsia]

I wish to pitch something to you. It's still an idea in the alpha stage but hear it out.

Imagine a light vehicle with a 2 man crew, both of which are seated inside a sealed and armored cabin at the front. The thing is very small, basically a modern tankette. It's armored against shell splinters and bullets only with a tad more armor (like we are talking 12.7 proof, maybe, if that) around the crew cabin. The whole thing would weigh about 5 tons, maybe. It's armed with an unmanned turret thing that has a 40mm autocanon.

The idea is to have an ultra-light fire support vehicle that can go anywhere be it by swim, airdrop or even helicopter and perform a similar role to the old combo of a jeep with a recoilles rifle on the back. And look cool whilst doing that.

You're very optimistic with the weight, this thing is about 10 tons and only just meets all of your criteria baring the 40mm

what is this beby staghound <3 <3<3

[Gallia-]

Well ideally 40mm was going to be a gateway gun for... well god knows what in the future.
How big of a thing can I put on such a small hull? Like I don't suppose I could get away with a wiesel 105...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M40_recoilless_rifle

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M50_Ontos

Ontos was fat only because he had six guns.

The only reason Wiesel has an automatic gun is because it's a recoilless revolver cannon. 40mm Bofors would probably tip it over.

[Theodosiya]

Is it possible to develop a modular armor addon that could make T-84 Yatagan could eat RPG 29/32 and M829A2 frontally? And fit EuroPowerPack in it.

[Laritaia]

what is this beby staghound <3 <3<3

Panhard CRAB, it's a 10 ton 2/3man scout car

Is it possible to develop a modular armor addon that could make T-84 Yatagan could eat RPG 29/32 and M829A2 frontally? And fit EuroPowerPack in it.

yes

the T-84's major issue is the fact that it's made by ukraine and therefore suffers from extreme over reliance on ERA

[Fordorsia]

what is this beby staghound <3 <3<3

Panhard

: D

CRAB

[The Akasha Colony]

Is it possible to develop a modular armor addon that could make T-84 Yatagan could eat RPG 29/32 and M829A2 frontally? And fit EuroPowerPack in it.

A tank is just a metal box, ultimately. You can hang whatever you want on the outside of it, including armor of arbitrary thickness. But depending on weight and all that it may require modification to the other things like the suspension and such.

Europowerpack will probably require a hull extension to fit, since the 6TD-2 used in the current T-84 is extremely compact and specifically designed for the role while the MTU 883 and transmission isn't quite as small.

[Theodosiya]

Worth it? TO upgrade T series with EPP? At least to maintain stocks of T-80s.

[The Akasha Colony]

Worth it? TO upgrade T series with EPP? At least to maintain stocks of T-80s.

IMO, not really.

You're replacing several of the most expensive and complex parts of the tank anyway and presumably plan to upgrade the FCS from its original 1990s/early 2000s configuration to something more modern.

At the end of the day, the only part you aren't replacing is the bare metal tank hull, really. And steel tank hulls are cheap, especially if you have the capability to develop modern armor modules.

At some point, your nation has to figure out why it wants to "maintain stocks of T-80s" versus just designing and building a new tank. The Russians have obviously made the decision that they'd now like to pursue a new tank even after upgrading their T-72s as a stopgap.

It may make sense to upgrade some tanks in order to keep the tank fleet reasonably modern until the new tank is ready for service, but in this case you don't need to modernize the entire stockpile. Even the US still hasn't modernized all of its M1s, and doesn't even plan to modernize them all to M1A2s anyway, the Guard is going to get stuck with M1A1AIM v.2/SAs while only the active units get fancy new M1A2 SEP v3s.

[Fordorsia]

If half tracks are just trucks with drive sprockets instead of back wheels, how come people here claim they're mechanically complex and therefore not good to use today?

[Dostanuot Loj]

If half tracks are just trucks with drive sprockets instead of back wheels, how come people here claim they're mechanically complex and therefore not good to use today?

Who said that?

They're more complex to maintain than simple wheeled vehicles. But that's about it.

[Laritaia]

If half tracks are just trucks with drive sprockets instead of back wheels, how come people here claim they're mechanically complex and therefore not good to use today?

they're an awful middle ground

you get the maintenance issues of tracks without the full benefit they provide to off road mobility

this combined with the advancement of wheel based off road mobility technology means that a big 8x8 is just as if not more capable off road then a half track while being easier to maintain

[Fordorsia]

rip my army

[The Akasha Colony]

If half tracks are just trucks with drive sprockets instead of back wheels, how come people here claim they're mechanically complex and therefore not good to use today?

They have all the complexity of tracks without the benefit of fully-tracked off-road mobility or wheeled on-road mobility.

They fit a niche in WWII because driver training was a problem given the need to draft and train large numbers of crew (many of whom had never driven a vehicle before), tracks were still mechanically complex and tracked transmissions were complicated to learn, and wheeled vehicles of the time had limited off-road mobility. The half-track was the answer to this problem in that it created a vehicle that could be steered like a car (which is much easier to learn than using handle bars) while still having some of the off-road benefits of a tracked suspension.

They disappeared because these problems ended up being solved after the war in a number of ways.

Driver training became easier as the demand for drivers shrank and more time could be devoted to their training. The development of newer and more user-friendly transmissions and steering systems like the modern double-differential (and equivalents) also helped because it allows modern AFVs to be driven with a steering wheel, rather than tillers. The Tiger I, much as many here may like to malign it, was a precursor to this trend. And nowadays, cars are much more prolific than they once were and it is reasonable to expect a significant percentage of soldiers to know the basics of operating a motor vehicle before they enter the service.

As the demand for vehicles post-WWII also decreased, fully-tracked vehicles were a more enticing proposition. They had better off-road mobility than half-tracks and enough could now be built to meet demands. The growing demand for infantry carriers to keep up with tanks (which are obviously fully tracked) meant that APCs and IFVs would need to be fully tracked as well. Improvements in tracked AFV transmissions (as above) also made them more attractive by solving problems with limited turn radii and complicated steering that plagued WWII-era vehicles.

And lastly, wheeled vehicles became better off-roaders. Larger tires with stronger walls and run-flat inserts, central tire inflation systems, better suspensions, more powerful engines, and the like have resulted in the creation of a wave of wheeled off-road APCs (such as the multitude of Piranha clones, the BTR series, etc.). They still don't match the mobility of tracked vehicles off road, but they do much better than WWII-era armored cars and half-tracks, so there is no reason to bother with the half-track system which would impact their biggest selling point: operational mobility via road, and lower maintenance requirements per mile.

[Fordorsia]

Actually speaking of half tracks, I know I already brought up the kettenkrad but I think we only talked about having a bigger one and nothing else.

So how come it, or derivatives, weren't used after WWII? Or where they?

info

okie doke

[Federated Kingdom of Prussia]

Aren't halftracks less mobile than regular trucks when on-road, as well? A deuce and a half was a better logistics vehicle for the Red Ball Express, at least before the rains turned everything to mud in the autumn.

[Laritaia]

probably

[The Akasha Colony]

Aren't halftracks less mobile than regular trucks when on-road, as well? A deuce and a half was a better logistics vehicle for the Red Ball Express, at least before the rains turned everything to mud in the autumn.

Tracked vehicles (fully or partially) are generally less desirable for road driving. Tracked vehicles are generally slower than wheeled vehicles for the same horsepower and have higher rolling resistance and thus greater fuel consumption. Tracks also wear faster than wheels and metal tracks damage roads.

[Theodosiya]

Could a SUV modified to fit M134/GAU-19/M1919/M1921/MAG on the roof?

[Fordorsia]

Could a SUV modified to fit M134/GAU-19/M1919/M1921/MAG on the roof?

No it's impossible. Please ignore the countless irl examples.